| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
What a terrible tragedy. | ||
| Ebutch |
baldwin is Next  | ||
| Ebutch |
  | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/busines s/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-w alked-off-set 3 ADs? I've attended competition pistol events with thousands of live rounds fired with fewer "Accidental Discharges". This is the Producer's Responsibility, and the Director's. Instead, the Producer pulled the trigger on a gun not properly checked to be empty, killed the Cinematographer, and wounded the Director. Hey, accidents happen. Some accidents can't be prevented. A deer running out of the brush in front of my car with not enough time & distance to avoid, even if I have the trained reflexes of a professional driver and long time martial artist, is not a preventable accident. ( $5000 repair bill, Act Of God, per insurance company ) I'm sure there are other examples. But my Brother in Law who parked airplanes insists he was repeatedly told there are no accidents, just failures to follow safety rules. He parked them on a nuclear powered flight deck at speed on the high seas. That's Institutional Creed and Wisdom in a professional killing people and breaking things organization. Every intelligent gun owner knows guns don't go off by themselves. ( It went off when it fell from my holster, is Not by itself ) The gun doesn't load itself. It doesn't point itself. Gun Accidents Are Preventable. This negligent homicide certainly was. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/10/no_le ts_not_be_kind_to_alec.html Opinion... I'll withhold judgement until I have more facts. I'll withhold condemnation until I'm "triggered" by more comments. I don't apologize for any previous rude comments about the maturity of actors. Their jobs call for short term memorization and pretending. I often enjoy their work. But I don't think they can actually cast spells, fly a starship, or are experts in anything else. Some safety fails are actually funny. ( this one is not ) There was the Rambo movie where they put a shield on the camera, with a tiny hole for the multi-thousand-dollar lens to peer through. Sly was directed to stand up from cover and shoot an arrow directly at the camera. Yep, beautiful shot! Destroyed the lens. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. | ||
| Rick_a |
Preliminary reports say one projectile went through the first person then struck the other in the clavicle. Doesn't sound like a prop gun or blanks. One thing is for sure, he is eating his words.  But yeah, seems common sense and a matter of personal responsibility to check and make sure there's blanks in the thing. | ||
| Tootal |
My question has been, why in the world would you have any reason to have live ammo on a movie set? Why in the world would you aim and pull the trigger while pointing any type of gun at a person that's not part of the scene. I've noticed when watching old westerns, in scenes where you see the shooter and the bad guy both at the same time, the guns are not aimed at each other when they go off. This is really noticeable in the old Rifleman series. Somebody is in real trouble here, it should never happen. | ||
| Chauly |
There's been discussion about prior misfires with the funds in the preceding days, and that they may be "period" pieces. If they were antique Colts with the old notches on the hammer, they may have been hair triggers due to wear. Still no excuse for having any live rounds on site... | ||
| Ebutch |
Manslaughter  (Message edited by ebutch on October 24, 2021) | ||
| Blake |
Rick, Got one? https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/ Field grade is all that is left it seems. An acquaintance ordered three back in May and just received them last week, two 1944 Springfield Armory, one 1954 H&R. Good barrels, but battle worn. This is likely the end of the line for surplus Garands. | ||
| Rick_a |
No. But I wouldn't mind. M1 Garands and M14's have such good iron sights that I can shoot them as well as a typical scoped bolt action hunting rifle. They are a bit bulky, though. One of these years I wouldn't mind an M&P10.  Don't need it...but I do liek it. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Incredible, if true: https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/10/24/baldwin-fi lm-crew-had-been-target-shooting-with-prop-gun-bef ore-incident-n424430 | ||
| Aesquire |
One source says the gun was a 7 shot revolver, that had 6 blanks inserted, and guessed the remaining chamber held a live round. That seems unlikely for a period piece Western, where such a gun is likely an anachronism. That depends a lot on the crew, and executive decisions. Any firearm consultant worth hiring would tell the Director that an AK-47 is an obviously wrong gun for a 1890s time period and ditto a DA S&W N or K frame. ( the most likely revolver if the first sentence is true ) Any Director might choose to ignore a technical consultant, if he prefers an "artistic" interpretation. ( thought the Bad Guy looked "cooler" with a Thompson submachine gun, even though the film was set a decade before they existed, for example ) Or, quite often, the Director thinks few fans will notice anachronism, like a computer hacking scene often has the same Linux page on screen because it's free, and the real thing is boring, not easily recognized or even irresponsible to show on screen. Bottom line is someone on set was Killed by Not Following Known And Standard Safety Protocols. I'm not ready to blame Reed, who may have been ignored or designated the Fall Guy. | ||
| Ratbuell |
ALWAYS check your firearm YOURSELF. Assume every gun is loaded. Never point it at anything you aren't willing to kill or destroy. Never put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot. He broke ALL those rules. Zero sympathy. Putz. | ||
| Ourdee |
I agree. Let the court sort him out. Man slaughter. Live by the sword........ (Message edited by OURDEE on October 25, 2021) | ||
| Aesquire |
I doubt any criminal charges will result. Careless accidents and ignorance might get you a court date, but rich Hollywood types typically don't, and I seriously doubt there was any intent to harm in anyone's mind. However, I Do expect the Unions involved to at least scream about how this was what happens when you don't care about the Employees, as the scabs were incompetent, that replaced concerned professionals, who walked off due to a dangerous "shoot" ... obviously. I don't know if the Union will sue or just use this as leverage. Many "right wing pundits" ( Or centrist, sarcastic sane pundits, there is overlap ) are calling for mandatory NRA safety courses for the Hollywood Elite! That's both a rational solution to safety, and a hilarious slam on the "Entertainers" who often call the NRA & It's members murderous rednecks. full disclosure, I'm a Life Member in the NRA. And, no, I never shot anyone. | ||
| Ratbuell |
On a lighter note...I just got an email from Springfield Armory, they just released a new SA-35. Nice looking, full-sized Browning-style 9mm, 15 rd capacity, tac-rack rear sight and post front, extended thumb safety...$699 MSRP. Might have to check one out! https://www.springfield-armory.com/sa-35-series-ha ndguns/sa-35-handguns/ | ||
| Hootowl |
Yeah, no criminality as the shooter. As one of the producers, though, he is responsible for the environment that led to the accident. And like Rat said, always check. Had he not been so ignorant of the guns he wants to ban, while glamorizing their use, maybe he would have known a few basic safety rules. | ||
| Rick_a |
Very cool to see the BHP back. Has all the features a modern High Power should. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Yeah, my LGS is trying to get some but having a hell of a time getting ANYTHING from SA these days, other than Hellcats. Although he does have some nice RIA 1911's...hmm... | ||
| Hootowl |
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/10/alan_ dershowitz_talks_the_legalities_of_baldwin_shootin g.html Echoes the thinking here. | ||
| Blake |
> I wouldn’t mind one. Same here! You won’t beat the $700 shipped to your door CMP deal. Agree on the sights, even with my aging eyes. > I wouldn't mind an M&P10. Nice! I didn’t even know S & W was offering a 7.62 x 51 (.308) AR10 type platform. | ||
| Blake |
Isn’t “ negligent homicide“ a thing? I mean if you accidentally kill someone in a car accident that’s your fault, isn’t that negligent homicide? Don’t people go to jail for that sort of thing? I reckon as both producer and perpetrator of the actual homicide, Baldwin surely ought to face criminal charges. | ||
| Hootowl |
I expect charges. Not murder. Negligent homicide sounds about right. Especially for the folks, not Baldwin, whose job it was to ensure that the weapons were clear. The guy who was using that same gun to shoot live rounds earlier that morning. I think he’s the screwed one. Baldwin, as producer, will likely face a civil suit. | ||
| Aesquire |
I've had the urge for a while to cosmetically convert a M1 into a Nerf blaster. I'd save all the original bits, but install an aftermarket stock and rails for lights, laser, and especially a Scout scope. Try to get the blocky space toy gun look, but keep rational ergonomics. A 16.5" barrel? Big cone flash hider? And, naturally, primary colors in yellow etc. Just to have a humorous range toy, cheerful and Not a Black Gun. ( since the racists get nervous for their daughters or something, I guess? ) I do like the new updated Browning High Power. I keep missing deals on a Canadian Inglis made w/stock that has circulated through the local shops. ( it's gone from $800 - $2400 over the years, and I've twice decided to buy, to just miss it, you snooze you lose. ) I think it was built for China but ended up surplus on the East Coast. But I've never bought a High Power because of price and little ergonomic issues. A modern 1911 has evolved to nigh ergonomic perfection, but the Browning seemed frozen right in the edge, and Springfield might just have something! | ||
| Rick_a |
What about the HCAR? The most tactical BAR.  Very NERF blaster-ey. | ||
| Aesquire |
That would be awesome in bright colors! Great choice! | ||
| Tootal |
I was surprised when the talk show host I was listening to this morning said that he was willing to stand behind Alec Baldwin. This surprised me because just yesterday he was saying it's always the gun holder's responsibility to check the weapon. Then he said, "because I sure don't want to stand in front of him!" | ||
| Ourdee |
+1 | ||
| Rick_a |
Someone had the nerve to call my carry guns "safe queens" on a gun forum. It makes me want to take close ups of the wear marks...but it's hardly worth effort. I have one new gun and one that I'm trying to keep pretty. Why do people always have to poop on your parade?  |
