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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, September 10, 2018 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/article189213039 .html

The Hipaa rule isn't mentioned here, and I'm looking for my source. Google isn't friendly to gun related searches. Basically, the New mental health provisions in one of the six laws passed, ignores patient confidentiality, and places State law over Federal.

You can debate the possible good with ignoring patient privacy. Should mentally ill people be forbidden to have guns or knives? Which ones? Talk to a therapist about anxiety, and they take your guns? Your car? Your hang glider? Probably more than two sides to pick from and nuance?

The doctor forms are part of Obama care. Every time you see a new doctor, tucked into the mandated form, in with allergies and operations, is the gun ownership question.

Common Core has it's own, isn't your SO a teacher?

I'll keep looking for the source. It may date to 2016, with the last set of anti rights legislation. Lots of references from then.

(Message edited by Aesquire on September 10, 2018)
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 06:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/09/o bama_vs_the_nation.html
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 06:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/09/the_t ravesty_of_obamas_award_for_ethics_in_government.h tml
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Airbozo
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes the SO is a teacher. Special Education department chair. Still teaches as well. Gun owner, well versed on the constitution (her 2nd degree was constitutional law), and believer in letting the kids determine their own political path. She currently teaches history and government.

Nothing in the documents at her district about mental health and guns. There was some discussion after Parkland about tagging emotionally disturbed children and figuring out how to report the mental illness of a family member, but there is no method for that. Currently.

She still hates that teachers are now responsible for teaching personal grooming, ethics, civility and everything else that should be taught by the parents. She is also not happy that a good portion of the country is also expecting them to be body guards as well. Everything we ask our teachers to do takes away from the time they get to actually teach the core subjects.

Oh and BTW: Common core is being phased out at several districts and potentially the state, because it just does not work for all subjects despite the lofty goals...
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron .htm

lMom taught special ed. 2 aunts teachers, a few more in my camping group. Lively discussions on adhd, teaching techniques, the Iron Law, etc.

I'll go on record as blaming Bush for no child gets ahead & Obama for commie core. But both just signed bad programs by "education experts" that couldn't teach, & don't remember being a child.

As far as parents go? Mutter, mutter. I taught my sister to read when she was 4 & I was 11. I learned by 5. Grew up in a house full of books.
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Hootowl
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Expects them to be body guards? I think itís more accurate to say that a good portion of the country doesnít want them to be denied the right to carry on campus. The benefit during a school shooting being obvious. I donít believe anyone wants to force teachers to arm themselves.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Correct, by my understanding.

Also by my understanding, however, is an overwhelming state's unwillingness to do more than "allow" teachers to "arm and protect themselves". No significant rules regarding campus access. No rules regarding armed (dedicated, i.e. NOT teachers) security forces. No rules regarding any sort of background checks, or poor-behavior-history-reporting on students.

So...by default, and through their unwillingness to take decisive action, yes - it could be interpreted that the states "expect" teachers to be bodyguards.

And parents.

And groomers.

And mentors.

And dieticians.

Personally, I think parents need to step up and BE PARENTS. It's a child, not a tax deduction. Start treating them as such.
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Airbozo
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 01:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Exactly Rat.

99% of the teachers in this country can't prevent students from stealing their phones, wallets or other personal items and I don't feel a gun would be any different.

Hire professionals whose job it is to protect students and let teachers, you know, TEACH.

If they want to carry, there should be required training and other safety measures in place to prevent someone stealing their weapons.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And if you want to carry...OPEN carry, and it must be on your person at all times.

As you said - the kids steal stuff all the time. Don't leave it up to a biometric lock, combo lock, or god forbid a key lock. Wear it.

I know. Open carry can be a debate. Is it a show of strength / lack of soft target? Or does it make the person carrying into a primary target? My thoughts lean towards show of strength; if a person is open-carry certified, they should have the situational awareness to be able to pick out a potential attack before it happens. Nobody can plan for everything, I know, but maybe if the cowards see half the teachers carrying, they'll think twice before doing something stupid.
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Hootowl
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 02:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They should be carrying it, absolutely. I think open carry might not be the right thing though.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 04:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think it would. And it would have the added effect of waking up the snowflakes, that the real world sucks and if you can't hack high school you need to figure out how to cope.

And if the parents are too scared by it, keep the kids home and teach 'em yourself. Maybe you'll BOTH learn something.
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 08:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One more reason Trump is right for wanting to build a wall... Illegal immigrants cited in theft of 39 million Social Security numbers
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Britchri10
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

FWIW Florida has enacted the Guardian Program in all schools.
Basically, 130+ hours of training from LEO's, concealed carry on campus.
One thing to note is that school staff eligible for this program are not allowed to be "primarily" teachers.
DAMHIK.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 09:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

tactically, that makes sense. Teachers are "tied" to their classroom. If this process, for instance, trains front office staff...library staff...athletic staff...folks who can more easily "roam" because they aren't immediately supervising students...this makes sense.

Glad to see someone, somewhere, is finally doing something.
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Ourdee
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 10:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd sign on locally as the vomit moper if I could sling a GAU-5 and work 2 random days a week. OH, and flash bangs and smoke grenades.

For an announcement on the PA, I'd want this song blaring when an active shooter showed up.:
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Britchri10
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Guardian initiative is a good one in my estimation.
Currently, each school in the District is assigned an LEO unless the school has trained guardians on staff.
I believe the weapons of choice will be 9mm pistols which is better than throwing a stapler at any assailant.
Hopefully, the ammunition will be such that it will not penetrate walls as school situations have a potentially high risk for collateral damage in a shooting situation.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would assume they're smart enough to spec a low-grain hollowpoint round...but we all know what happens when we ass-u-me...
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Guardian Program you describe does sound pretty reasonable. I do question why staff who are primarily teachers would be exempt though. I can understand the limitations of being "tied" to a classroom. OTOH, they are the last defense of that same classroom.

A local school in our area was just in the news for having combined some of the "best technology available" for dealing with guns in schools. One system was basically just like a fire alarm, but different color, and different look. Wired directly to the police. They also installed a system that detects the sound of gun shots, again wired directly to the police. They got lot's of praise for integrating these "high tech" solutions. My first thought was that neither of these will stop someone from shooting up the school. They are good at notifying the police, so will save seconds over waiting for one the hundreds of cell phones in the school to dial 911. The problem though, is that while you speed the response by seconds, the response in that area will still be measured in tens of minutes.

This is where armed staff simply makes sense to me. Much cheaper to implement, and can respond very quickly when needed. BTW, as a school bus driver, this topic has been discussed at work, and I have given my opinion that being armed on the bus doesn't make sense. I'm not of the opinion that every staff member should necessarily be armed.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't think it should be mandatory.

However, I think any staff member who CHOOSES, and passes standard carry tests, should be ALLOWED. On body at all times, no chance for theft.

This "soft target" crap has got to stop, especially where our children are concerned. And while the police are still the strongest defense...they simply can't be everywhere. Someone who's THERE can drastically reduce body counts, and hopefully turn the police response into nothing more than crowd control and scene processing because by the time they arrive, the threat will have been neutralized.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

BTW, I don't think any concealable hand gun is going to punch through a typical school style cinder block wall. Certainly class room construction can be a consideration in these policies. Not every solution fits every situation.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd be concerned about through-and-through though. Can't always get a perp to step away from the innocents behind them...
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd be concerned about through-and-through though. Can't always get a perp to step away from the innocents behind them...

I would be more concerned about missed shots. Either way though, it's a concern. Throwing a stapler at an active shooter is almost certainly going to be 100% ineffective though. It will likely make you the next target of the shooter though. Who wants to volunteer to be the stapler thrower?
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Ourdee
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If a stapler is all I have, I'm on it boss. Doing nothing is not an option. Need a better shot. Yell,"EVERYONE DOWN". Drop to one knee and shoot upwards. First and foremost, put the first round in the perp.

If I drive a bus, I want the tool on me. My first choice would be to move bus away from the threat.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Throwing a stapler is an outstanding distraction, and could be the first in a series of "oh HELL no, we aren't letting this happen" responses from the room full of victims.

Flight 93. Somebody fought back first. Not an ideal outcome, but the victims still kept the perps from succeeding in their goals.

Throw a stapler. Perp looks away. Starting linebacker behind the perp sees an opportunity, takes them down. Aggressive youth near the tackle zone sees the gun/weapon/whatever come out of the perps hands when they hit, and picks it up. Flow of events, if the right people are involved, have just disarmed the perp and defused the situation.

You never know.

If you've got a stapler, throw the stapler. Start the snowball effect. What good does standing around watching, do?
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

All my close friends know not to ever put me up for some reality show idiocy, where they try and scare you with a guy in a hockey mask with a chainsaw, or some such, since my initial reaction is probably on the lines of "pick up a table, use it as a shield/battering ram, and pound the clown into a wall until the weapons fall out and the noise stops". Or something else, depending on environment.

I'd feel terrible afterward. Poor stunt man. Or I'd get hurt, and feel terrible. Or if it was a real attack, I'd feel terrible afterward too. But once I got over the stunned by weird input reaction, ( I'm not immune ) and probably before I got to the reasoning, and examining clues that it's not real part, I'd be using the stapler, or overhead projector, or school desk.

I'm also probably the first guy to get shot, because of my semi-trained reactions. A close martial artist buddy and I have long discussions on how to teach, "the combat computer", katas, programming, etc. And one thing we agree on, is the mindset is not even close between stepping into the list to fight in tournament, and getting jumped passing an alley. One can inform the other, but the shifting of mental gears takes time. ( for most people )

I know folk like Col. Cooper talk about red, yellow, etc. awareness/mindset levels, and how you should never be less than ready to respond, but in the real world, that's not so easy, or to be expected.
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Britchri10
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The stapler is the heaviest projectile on my desk......
If I'm really unlucky I'll get to practice my bayonet drill with a rolled umbrella.
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Airbozo
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aesquire,

When I was in high school a buddy of mine thought it would be real funny to scare the living piss out of me on my way to the bus stop.

He will always remember that day when he looks in the mirror and sees his nose pointing the other way. I felt bad about it for a while.

Similar thing happened when I was in the Navy. That guy took a plunge off the pier in Yokosuka.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I know folk like Col. Cooper talk about red, yellow, etc. awareness/mindset levels, and how you should never be less than ready to respond, but in the real world, that's not so easy, or to be expected.

My point exactly, about throwing the stapler and being that first step towards "oh HELL no" for the other people in the room. One person stepping up and reacting, can snap the rest into action...


(Message edited by ratbuell on September 13, 2018)
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Ourdee
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If I am at my desk, the dog has already told on you.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 08:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://pjmedia.com/blog/it-wasnt-just-four-americ ans-abandoned-in-benghazi
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