| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
I recently changed my sound company's main audio mixer from a traditional 24 channel mixing console (large, heavy, 120-lb pain in the ass), to a 2U rack-mounted, all-wifi, 85W power draw, 17 lb, 32 channel unit. Now it, my Linksys EA8500, and my iPad (and my speakers) are all I need to do a concert, for any band. I want to add a rackmount, 1U, UPS to the rig for when (not if) site breakers blow. Breakers blowing are bad enough; lights coming back up onstage and making people wait for a mixer and WAP reboot sequence...is WORSE. So. My mixer weighs 17 lbs. I want something not-too-heavy, since it will be living in the same 6U road case (the other 3U will be a large drawer for the WAP and iPads), and being carried like a suitcase for gigs. I don't need a ton of runtime - most I'm seeing in a 1U configuration will go over 20 minutes at 100w draw (I'm 91.3w - 85W mixer, 6.3W for the WAP), which is plenty of time to either get the breaker reset without having to go through a reboot, or time for me to save and shut down properly when site staff takes too damned long to reset in the first place. I'm looking at APC and Tripp-Lite mainly. I think it's a T-L that is about 17 lbs and shows a 27 min runtime at 100w draw. Anything out there that may be a better choice, considering it'll live "on the road" in an SKB roadcase as opposed to a static rack? I'm not playing soccer with it since it'll be in the same box as a $1600 mix console, but it'll be much more active than living in a server room... Any brand better than another for maintenance/battery replacement down the road? Or one that has better overall battery lifespan? Any environmental concerns? The mixer does put out some heat from the circuitry - there's no amplifiers, but it is definitely warmer than ambient after a show. Not "too hot to touch" but "hmm...this case is warm". Any great-priced vendors out there? CDW and BPH are a couple on my radar but I can always google some pricing... | ||
| Greg_e |
Check for a lithium battery based unit, I know there are a few out there, should reduce the weight by a bunch. | ||
| 86129squids |
OK, so the OP obviously is calling Froggy. | ||
| Froggy |
Sorry Squids, this is a little a bit outside my wheelhouse so I can't recommend anything specific. I do agree with Greg_e though, I'd go with a Lithium based unit as it will be lighter, but I have no experience with them (honestly I didn't know they existed). All I've ever used is Lead, as weight is not an issue for all my needs (nothing portable), plus Lead handles a deep discharge better. APC, TPLink and Cyberpower are all good brands I've used and have no qualms about recommending. That said I've never had to deal with their support or RMAing dead units (which I guess is a good thing) so I don't know how they stack up should things break. As for where to buy, Newegg, B&H, Microcenter are my usual outlets these days. I've sworn off Amazon after getting too many rare/irreplaceable items damaged in transit due to improper packaging. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Thanks, Froggy. Appreciate the input  The call was for anyone - I know we come from all walks of life here on badweb and I have no problem polling folks to see who has real life experience with something I'm getting ready to jump into. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
I sell APC stuff to my clients. From your pretty basic needs, I think this would work out just fine. And it's reasonably priced. (can be found cheaper than the list price) http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Smart-U PS-SC-450VA-120V-1U-Rackmount-Tower/P-SC450RM1U From the published runtime graph it should be able to hold a 100W load for upwards of 30 minutes. Downside, it weighs in at 23lbs. (Message edited by 99buellx1 on March 12, 2018) | ||
| Hootowl |
I've had several APC units, and the batteries all died prematurely. I don't know if they're using crap batteries or if the electronics that charge/maintain them suck, but I only got a year out of each one. I switched all of my UPSs to Cyberpower about 6 years ago. Those batteries are still going strong. I have three 1500 volt amp units. One of them might be a 1700. I don't remember. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The other thing that may (?) be a factor is, life on the road. Not only bump-and-jostle, but lots of time unplugged/not charging. My gear tends to sit boxed up in my (insulated/moderate temp) garage. Now with this being as portable as it is, I can conceivably bring this case into my house between gigs...but it'll still spend a lot of time unplugged. I *presume* there's an "off" button I can use for transport, to keep the mixer and WAP from being powered by a UPS that thinks its just a power outage...but that time-unplugged factor may play into battery life? | ||
| Greg_e |
The only small lithium I found is this one: http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Back-UP S-Pro-500-Lithium-Ion-UPS/P-BG500?gclid=EAIaIQobCh MIldf5nfPm2QIVjEwNCh183AyOEAYYAiABEgLWhPD_BwE Only 500VA or 300 watts, you are paying a lot of the ligther weight lithium batteries. There are also Lithium in the standard Ux sizes that could be retrofit into the 2u and larger devices. As far as APC goes, yes I've had trouble with several of their smaller devices with short battery life, but I normally get 3 years out of their larger products. I have since then gone to a third party battery which doesn't explode at the end of that 3 year period. But I still keep all of mine on a 3 year cycle of replacement, about 500 pounds of batteries. | ||
| Greg_e |
Here is another lithium product at 1500VA, but the price is not what I was expecting: http://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.5P1550GR-L.h tml | ||
| Hootowl |
One of my older APCs didn't have a power button, but the newer ones did, and all of the Cyberpower ones do. One thing I like about the Cyberpower models is that you can turn the alarm off. The APCs just screamed at me when the power was out and there was nothing I could do but listen to it or leave the house. | ||
| Greg_e |
+1 for the LCD versions so you can mute the alarm: http://www.apc.com/ca/en/faqs/FA284138/ | ||
| Skipbarberman |
I've designed networks for the better part of 26 years, and have dealt with most of the major manufacturers. They ALL have their issues, and Hootowl is right - there was a time when APC had a bad design and fulfilling manufacturer that had to run the course of a contract. Cost them A LOT of business and brand reputation. That aside, don't go lithium. It's still very expensive, and they have different requirements than traditional submerged or sealed units that the marketing doesn't always share. Secondly, companies don't engineer or manufacture their own components parts, they source/outsource them. UPS battery units are just components, often from the same manufacturer. Eaton is a massive manufacturer of residential and commercial AC/DC equipment. They are the one manufacturer that outsources the least, has direct control of R&D and QA, and has consistently superb tech support. They are however, somewhat difficult to find. APC is everywhere, but Eaton's distribution channel is improving VERY quickly. Don't get me wrong - APC is the premier name in UPS, much like Cisco for networking. That in and of itself doesn't imply anything but marketing spend. We've open them up and compared at the component level. Eaton 5p1000R is what I would do. If you can afford the additional weight and $150, 5p1500R. I like the additional battery for the runtime, implied surge damping based on your load, and lifespan/self-test. I'll bet you could get 8-10 years out of that unit. Just one engineer's opinion, FWIW. Put 10 of us in a room, you'll get 15 ideas Happy to help if you need anything further. - Sean (Message edited by skipbarberman on March 16, 2018) (Message edited by skipbarberman on March 16, 2018) | ||
| Skipbarberman |
Oh - you could ratchet that down to something smaller, of course (5p100RC, etc.). But one thing I forgot to mention; you could get a fan tray to cool the cabinet (more power, of course), but depends on the venting design of the cabinet. And last but not least, be sure the UPS will fit the dimensions of the cabinet WITH the cords/plugs, rack ears, standoffs , etc. Seems silly, I know, but more than one of us has done that before. Min 3" behind the UPS for cooling and connections, 1" up front. | ||
| Hootowl |
Good to know about eaton. I didn’t know they played in the soho space. | ||
| Court |
I like that Eaton and was unaware of it. I have a bank of TrippLite now that generally do a great job until the 45kW backups kick in. I hook all my internet and WiFi (garage doors, lighting, environmental, Motorola Comm and security) systems to the UPS so that during the brief operation of the transfer switch they don't drop out. The TrippLite are not rack mount but were just the right height, about 4 spaces, to put on the bottom of a cabinet and then mount power strips and fan above to hold in place. Thanks for the "heads up" on Eaton ! This place is the bet go to for tech ! | ||
| Ratbuell |
I received my TL yesterday, have to unbox and build my rack over the weekend. For use, it's going to live in a Gator road case:  Case build will be a 3U "stuff" drawer on the bottom; the 2U mixer above that; and the 1U UPS at the top. Or, I may separate the UPS and put it at the bottom, and move the other two pieces up. Not sure yet, we'll see how heat dissipation and carrying balance work out each way. Front and rear lids are both off for use, so it's basically flow-through. I don't *think* I'll need a fan, but we'll see after a couple shows, how it all behaves. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Front and rear images of my new 32 channel "mixer"  | ||
| Greg_e |
I probably would have gone with the Behringer x32 rack, I know many people using them and the console version, and they have been solid performers. | ||
| Court |
I've got both Mackie and Behringer around the house . . . I haven't owned a PreSonus . . but my impression of them is that they are rock solid. I'm getting excited now with Chris Benson commissioned to build an amp. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I don't like like the layering and menus for the x32 family. Presonus, one tap and I'm there - compressor, gate, eq, right there. I got hooked on their console (studiolive 24.4.2) and when it came time to ditch the anchor and go rack-mount I didn't even think twice. Built-in multitrack record capability also rocks. USB to MacBook, open the record suite (comes with the board), hit "record", and ignore until the show is over. Then, hit "unlock" and "stop". Done. Full multitrack, all pre-fade/pre-FX and ready to studio-master. Oh, and that software is also included. And the 32R also has a face-mount SD card slot for L/R output record. Save the whole show's house mix as a .wav for instant distribution. | ||
| Greg_e |
It does have a few features over the Behringer. |
