| Author | Message | ||
     Pwnzor |
All who are so inclined, please pray for the souls of those slain in Las Vegas... And, also for the man who committed these acts. What must have befallen him to be driven to this? | ||
| Ltbuell |
..sad on all accounts...not good at all....LT ...and the fallout ..those who do will accuse/link Trump to this one..watch....trolls paid for by Soros...sad and sickening.... | ||
| 86129squids |
Amen to that, brother. News reports that his family "feels like an asteroid was just dropped on them". They had no idea. We woke to find several messages, unusual times and peeps, and then a few frantic phone calls to friends there who are country music fans... for us and ours, all is OK. Plus, today is the day that we finish preparations and packing to fly there tomorrow, attending a wedding this coming Saturday at Caesar's palace. Gonna be a different trip than what we were expecting.  | ||
| 86129squids |
Annnnd- boom. THAT quick to go political. I hadn't even finished typing, answered a friend's text and paused. Geez.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
May God have mercy on ALL their souls. God bless all those first responders - and plain ol' regular citizens - who stepped up and helped their fellow men and women in the midst of the chaos. An absolutely horrible way to wake up, and that's nothing compared to those who were involved. Makes me pause when I think of all the concerts I work, and run, as part of my audio production company. Do I start to carry to every event? Production staff should have blacked out all the lights as soon as shots rang out. Illuminating the target only made things easier for the shooter. I'd have hit the blackout button soon as Aldean exited the stage. Such a horrible mess. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I can't believe they turned on ALL the stage lights that point at the crowd. Thoughts and prayers for all those affected... | ||
| Ourdee |
Joe, On lighting you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Guy may have just kept shooting where the crowd was anyway. Personal carry wouldn't have done much against a shooter that far up (my opinion). Lasers would take his sight. But not enough to keep him from indiscriminately firing into the crowd. Prayers for the living. | ||
| Torquehd |
Hard news to hear. Pray for the families, friends, survivors. Killing the lights would have been right but most people have no reason to be tactically minded so I don't fault whoever made that decision. I'm sure they were trying to do the right thing. I wonder if they even knew where the shooter was located when the decision was made. CCW would make no difference in this tragic event. Totally out of range. And lobbing rounds at a hotel... no. The laser idea, while reasonable, also endagers the eyes of anyone else nearby on the receiving end. And trying to hit his eyes when you can't see him is not a very sure bet. Small target, big distance, no observer. The only "right" answer is armed hotel security swooping in as soon as shots are fired (or an adjacent hotel guest with carrying concealed). But, that still takes time to PID the location, and you HAVE to assume the entry to the room has been boobytrapped. I didn't read anywhere that it was but that should always be an assumption until proven otherwise. Still, there's not a good answer. So, one takeaway from this tragedy - if you hear gunshots and they're closeby, go neutralize the threat. However, that calling is not for everyone. Another takeaway - many of the crowd laid down on the ground while shots were impacting. GET BEHIND COVER and/or FLEE THE AREA as fast as physically possible. I realize cover is dependent upon knowing the direction of the attack so sometimes GTFO is the better option. According to the news, SWAT used an explosive breach. That's scary stuff in a public building. Those videos are hard to watch. Infuriating. | ||
| Sifo |
Random CCW person nearby charging into a room that has automatic weapons fire, vs. staying in a place of retaliative safety? That would be a bold move to make. I just turned on the tube and they are saying he converted his weapons to auto-fire. It seems odd that no statements from the shooter have come forth yet. This was obviously planned, and not a sudden snap. I would think that he would want his death, and the victims deaths to be more than just random occurrences with absolutely no purpose. There's got to be some rant from the killer somewhere. | ||
| Aesquire |
ISIS claims he's a recent convert. ISIS lies so consider that unproven. The news is all over his father's criminal record. Way to go, someone used Google. Sniper in a hotel? I might be crazy enough to take on an active shooter in a mall, after all, he's right there and if I don't I'm dead anyway. ( I might not be, haven't been that unlucky ) But there's no way I'd advance on the hotel and play Bruce Willis in Die hard 6. For one thing I know for a fact that I can't kick those doors down. And then there's the set off the booby trap issue, and never forget that running through a hotel that shots are coming from pretending to be Rambo is going to get you shot by the police who really don't have any patience for that idiocy. While we're praying, toss one out to the Citizens of Spain who were beaten by the police so the European Union could keep control of the money in the banks there. If I was a European, I'd seriously be angry at the not elected, not responsible, dictatorship they've got. | ||
| Sifo |
Odd things for media folks to focus on a this point, at least out loud... CBS Exec Fired for ‘Deeply Unacceptable’ Post About ‘Republican Gun Toters’ After Vegas Shooting WATCH: CNN Reporter Bizarrely Reminds Viewers That Country Music Fans Are 'Likely Trump Supporters' Then again, perhaps those are the thoughts of the shooter... (Message edited by SIFO on October 02, 2017) | ||
| Ratbuell |
I can't believe people are politicizing this. Not just "at all", considering it concerns dead AMERICANS, but especially considering the bodies aren't even COLD yet. I don't know that it's "tactical" thought at all but...I hear shots? I out the lights. Confusion was rampant in the audience already so it wouldn't have affected the citizens; it certainly would have made things tougher for the nut on 32. As for future prevention...bulletproof glass on high rises. Protect tenants....and keep maniacs from "opening" the window from within. All in all this was a tough one from a prevention and neutralization standpoint. God bless the LEOs and first responders. | ||
| Ourdee |
I am having trouble understanding how you can open a window in the building in LasVegas. Do they open? | ||
| Snacktoast |
From the pictures I saw, it looked like there were two windows that were broken, not "opened". | ||
| Zac4mac |
Don't hold outdoor events under high-rises. Pretty simple to me. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I remember being able to see Wrestlemania 9 from my window at whatever hotel it was I was staying at. Even now, I remember thinking... "I could hit them from here." | ||
| Rick_a |
...Aand the anti-gun media campaign is already in full swing...with the word suppressor thrown in there for effect. | ||
| Aesquire |
At this point in American history the left cheers mass murder. It's an opportunity to take more power. Never mind that most murders are committed by their own. That is not to be mentioned. The facts are plain. They need dead children so they can disarm you. That is the most important thing. They can't impose their will on a free and armed people. So armed people must go. Any excuse. Any lie. Any murder is justified by power. Breaking eggs to make the omelette is the only thing they know. Hate sells well to the ignorant. That's why you don't want to stand next to a MAGA sign unless you are ready to fight. | ||
| Mtnmason |
"..And the anti-gun media campaign is already in full swing...with the word suppressor thrown in there for effect." Interesting bit of coincidence: Guess what was going up for a vote the day after the Bernie bro shot up the ball field? SHARE/SAFE Act. Guess what was going to be voted upon today prior to be shelved by Paul Ryan? SHARE/SAFE Act. Not implying any conspiracies or anything. It is a tad ironic though. | ||
| Sifo |
I can't believe people are politicizing this. Not sure if this was directed at my comments or not. Not meaning to politicize it, but... The reality is that these sort of things usually are either some sort of personal beef, or it's political in some way. Terrorism is political. There doesn't seem to be any sort of personal beef that we know of. So what's the motive? My earlier post was simply pointing out that the left thinkers seem to draw the connection with country music and Trump supporters. This isn't the first time in recent months that we had a political shooting aimed at conservatives. It's very possible that this is a copy cat of the shooting at the baseball field; More or less. The video that I posted shows a man, who appears to be this same individual, at an anit-Trump protest not far from his home. He is seen wearing a pink vagina on his head. I'm not surprised youtube has taken it down, but there's plenty more videos showing Mr. Vagina. If you want to see pretty sick politicization of this... Leftist Teacher Celebrates “White Trump Supporters” Being Killed in Las Vegas Massacre Sadly, these things have been political for decades not, just because they are seized upon by the anti gun people. What this has to do with banning suppressors, I haven't a clue, other than it's a club that can be used to beat home a political viewpoint. Yes, I'm pretty sure politics was involved when Mr. Vagina first checked into his hotel room on the 32nd floor. Or it's possible that he just really dislikes country music. | ||
| Ourdee |
I ran across these comments on Infowars: Avatar cane toad • 5 hours ago The mainstream media is lying as usual. Looks like there must have been two shooters. Guy had Antifa propaganda. Audience were country western fans, white, so gee...looks like a left wing plot to me. •Reply•Share › − Avatar troll2.0 cane toad • 5 hours ago All of a sudden you believe the government when they say he had Antifa propaganda? •Reply•Share › Avatar cane toad • 5 hours ago There is some suggestion that the shooter was Antifa. I think the democrats organized this to push gun control. Today democrats are terrorists. 1 •Reply•Share › Avatar BoBo9000 • 5 hours ago 1. Find a lonely old man in the casino. 2. Hire a prostitute. 3. Have the prostitute lure him into getting a room. 4. Rent the room next door and spend a couple weeks stockpiling weapons. 5. At the right moment, enter the old man's room, shoot him in the head and place the handgun near his body. 6. Do the shooting. 7. Escape the hotel using the path you've studied for the past two weeks. This has Antifa and BLM written all over it. 2 •Reply•Share › Avatar Just doesn't ring true? BoBo9000 • an hour ago Yup... seems like a classic assassin technique made large... and the real shooter probably mapped out three exit paths. Every military person is calling the cover story total B.S. If it looks like a professional job, it probably was a professional Hit job. DEAR FBI : PLEASE BACKGROUND CHECK EACH AND EVEEY DEAD PERSON, and all the treated wounded too. Because if it was a professional hit, they dropped the intended target(s) in the very first shots, then did the spray attack to mask their hit. And Vegas is KNOWN For its strong ties to organized crime and casinos. Was the real shooter that got away hired by a different casino to carry out the attack ? Check out all the Vegas Casinos. To write this off as a 'crazy guy' attack is lazy police work. DIG DEEPER. When the cover story makes no sense at all, well then, the cover story just is not true. You have to do full background chevks to see if one or more of the dead where V.I.P.s. high value targets, high rollers, or political/criminal/corporate/banker bosses. •Reply•Share › Avatar Guest BoBo9000 • 3 hours ago Probably closer to the truth than any one realizes •Reply•Share ›. Just another thought. | ||
| Pwnzor |
The Devil is afoot in the land, he walks among us. His greatest trick has been to convince people that he does not exist. If there is anything I've learned in my life, there is nothing too far-fetched to be real. | ||
| Aesquire |
I've heard conflicting reports. Including that the dead guy was shot by police. Consider the source and take your best guess. A buddy likes Infowars but I rate them with CNN. I don't believe without a second source with a higher trust rating. Of course for CNN that's the National Inquirer. Or Mad. Or Infowars.  . | ||
| Sifo |
So I've seen a bunch of stuff talking about multiple shooters in Vegas. Some more convincing than others. This video certainly seems convincing though, without any need for long drawn out conspiracy theory analysis. Just listen to the gun fire during the first 1:15 minutes of the video. Even the cabbie taking the video said it sounds like the gun fire "is now coming from somewhere else", so it's not an audio problem with the recording. This event is going to have conspiracy theories out the wazoo. There's a number of things that don't make much sense. Why does a "lone wolf" shooter haul 23 weapons up to a hotel room? I could understand 2 or 3, but 23? Other videos make it clear that it's not coming from a standard 30 round mag. Drum mag? Belt feed? There was a picture of the room released that showed a note pad and pen on a table right near the shooter. I've seen no comment on what may have been on the note pad though. There's going to be a lot of bad info coming out on this one. | ||
| Torquehd |
In one of the alleged pictures from the hotel room, there was what looks like a 60 rd mag laying next to an AR. I'd heard earlier that he was shooting a 240B but I haven't seen that on any news sources (so it could be true). Sure you can carry 23 of anything up to a hotel room. He was checked in for what 2 days prior? Make 10 or 12 trips over a few days, NBD. Having said all that; you can't trust MSM and it's also hard to trust official statements issued by anyone. There's almost always some level of slant and cover up. If official reports were always honest, no one would have a job. Everyone would get fired for breaking some kind of policy or law or guidance. Official reports are as much CYA as they are to find out what happened. | ||
| Macbuell |
I don't think it was a 240B or anything like that. If it was I think the carnage would have been much worse. That is serious rate of fire with a large caliber. Based on the photos I have seen it was just ARs with high capacity mags and Bump / Slide stocks. I would not be surprised if we see the end of those bump / slide stocks. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
240B... had to look that up. WAY back when I wore camouflage to work every day... all we had was M60's to play with. The MK19 had just came out a couple of years into my enlistment. Thank God he didn't get his hands on something like that. My wife and I are headed to Vegas at the end of the month for our 25th anniversary. I was really looking forward to the trip. Not so much now. | ||
| Sifo |
Sure you can carry 23 of anything up to a hotel room. He was checked in for what 2 days prior? Make 10 or 12 trips over a few days, NBD. I don't doubt that it could be done, just why. I could understand not wanting to be stuck with a seriously jammed round in the chamber. That's fairly uncommon though. More than 1 or 2 spares is way overkill. Switching mags will be easier than switching rifles when you are talking about that quantity of reloading. If you were expecting a party OTOH??? | ||
| Torquehd |
So having said what i did earlier, I do believe there was a belt-fed based on the rate of fire from the videos. It does not sound like an AR on full, which fires at a faster rate, especially if you're running a civilian auto sear and not an M4a1 or whatever the full auto M16 was (before my time). This is my opinion and I could be wrong but every time I hear it, I think "belt fed". And I would expect the amount of deaths and injuries from a 240 and a couple belts of ammo. So they recovered 23 guns? WHY is the ONLY gun that I've seen an evil racist AR with a "30 magazine clip"? Spin, spin, spin that story. Never let a good tragedy go to waste. | ||
| Crusty |
Were the 30 magazines in that clip PLAYBOYs? Maybe he was really bummed that Hugh Heffner died? (Message edited by Crusty on October 04, 2017) |
