| Author | Message | ||
     86129squids |
I'm having a local outfit come out to do a job on my house next Wednesday- my walls might as well be cardboard. You know how to do the "grill test" when cooking steaks or whatever, hold your hand over the grill surface and "1,2,3"- it's ready? I can do the same about an inch or so away from my interior walls, and feel the cold- "3,2,1"... Throwing some $$$ at the install, but all signs indicate it'll essentially pay for itself pretty quick. I was just wondering if anyone here might have experience with this method/product. http://www.retrofoam.com/ Holler! And thanks again, friends. | ||
| Crusty |
I have no experience with the product whatsoever. It sounds pretty good, though! | ||
| Two_seasons |
Why the "buyer's remorse?" | ||
| Thumper74 |
Before you do that. Check with your utility providers. Many of them have programs for this situation and subsidies to make your house more energy efficient. My last house was built in 1917 and our gas bill was through the roof. We were told that it was insulated. It was not. The newer addition to the house was. Our gas company had a program where we ended up paying $300 for the foam insulation for the rest of the house... It may not be a thing for you, but it's well worth a check. | ||
| Hootowl |
I have used foam on a couple of projects. I'm extremely happy with the results. I don't know anything about this particular company though, and my jobs were new construction. I believe the only difference is the energy with which the foam expands. You don't want to blow the wall open. | ||
| Pwnzor |
That stuff looks awesome. Good luck. | ||
| 5liter |
I had my home Retrofoamed 4 years ago. I live in an old farmhouse built in 1870 and the breeze would blow right through. After the foam it's tight as a drum. I also had them put 20 inches of insulation in the attic space. Heating bill dropped significantly. They took 2 days to do it and you can't tell they were even here. I'd recommend it. | ||
| Aesquire |
They have to use a medium to low expansion foam, or the wall boards pop off. ( the walls come down ) You can also do it yourself, from the inside. You hole saw holes between the studs a specified distance from the ceiling, stick in the nozzle and foam until it reaches the hole. Then move to the next bay. ( of course you make holes in every room, lay plastic down, and then marathon the spraying, so you don't need to replace the nozzles. ) There's a temperature requirement for the foam bottles, ( put in a warm water bath ) and a few details. Best done with a team of 2 or 3, with one person pouring foam, and the other sticking the plug back in, and moving the bottles as needed. For a 1300 sq foot house it's about $4-5k IIRC. I don't know this company, but if the price is at all close to $5k I'd have the pros do it. Having them do the attic and band joist in the basement ( depending on house design and previous insulation ) plus the walls, is a double plus good thing. Really drop the heating & AC bills. Best, of course, is to foam the house after wiring, but before the walls go up. That way you get all the nooks and air gaps. But as a retro fit you can't beat foam. And there is no "green" foam. They might claim to make it from fairy tears & wheat grass but it's still a polymer foam. | ||
| Torquehd |
Patrick how do you know all of that? I researched this stuff awhile back and didn't glean anywhere near that much info. | ||
| Aesquire |
I did a LOT of research on foam insulation. It's well worth it to make your house an ice chest. I may mock the Greenies but I'm a conservationist. aka cheap. Foam isn't just good insulation, it blocks drafts. I've spent a lot of time squirting "great stuff" minimally expanding into leaks & crevices. ( IMPORTANT!!! MINIMALLY EXPANDING!!! THE REGULAR STUFF MAKE BREAK YOUR HOUSE. by pushing walls off the studs etc ) I'm planning on having the garage & basement foamed, and maybe the house. There are drifts of loose fill in the attic, and Loki only knows in the walls. The house is.... odd. I bought a relatively new house, and found after moving in that it's a county tech high school project. That explains a LOT of stuff, as there are built in weirdness bit all over to teach the kids. The really messed up part is the basement steps, which the prev. owner apparently mis ordered, then disassembled and re built... Wrong. The top step is 7 1/2" and they get taller, each step, until the bottom one is 11". It's like a deliberate death trap. I have warning signs. None of the plumbing is parallel, or at right angles. Most of it leaked.... just a little bit. I now own 2 torches, MAP & propane. The living room walls were beige with a silver glaze. I killed a Sears sander on that room. Dining room is green with buck a roll trim tape to hide the joint, and sponged on plaster splats for decoration. Guest bath is same... in purple. Master bedroom was blue with Jackson Pollack spatter. Master bath was pink with silver glaze. Bedroom 2 was a color best described as "BLUE!!!!" aka electrical box blue. Your face changed color walking in. Most of that is redone except the kitchen ( mid project ) and I'm leaving the purple guest bathroom for anyone who doesn't like my taste to compare it to.  Here's a couple of links. I make no claims or endorse any of them Caveat Emptor. http://tigerfoam.com/ http://www.fomo.com/polyurethane-foam-insulation.a spx | ||
| Aesquire |
The simple math of home heating/ac is that building a "super insulated" house is such a smart thing it's amazing more people don't do it. The difference in building price between a cheesy stick build normal suburban home and one designed with slightly thicker walls is minimal. Even going to the conduction break construction with offset studs isn't that much more. You recover that extra cost in just a few years in places where there's actually winter, or LA style summer heat. Foam vs. batt insulation price difference is also well worth it. Total green crazy houses cost a bunch more. The kind you can heat with a 100 light bulb can be built, but the price gets asymptotic as you approach "100%" efficiency. 90% is well worth it. 97% probably isn't. 100% is silly expensive. For retrofit on existing homes, it's hard to beat foam. The only reason I haven't is after sealing the big leaks my house isn't horrid, and I may have the siding redone, so they can spray from the outside and I won't have to paint again. | ||
| Torquehd |
The top step is 7 1/2" and they get taller, each step, until the bottom one is 11". It's like a deliberate death trap. Wow! Do not let OSHA or pregnant women downstairs. I've done a lot of greatstuffing as well, that stuff is awesome, I can't imagine working with something that expands to 10 times its initial size (or whatever the ratio is for the professional stuff). | ||
| Aesquire |
The high expansion stuff is for spraying before the plaster board goes up, into the open bays between studs. Sprays on like thick paint & expands to fill. They use a knife or power tool to cut it off at stud thickness. I've seen some weird tools like a mini lawnmower & oversized electric knife. Given the learning curve & bulk discounts, pro installation is usually a good deal. | ||
| Zacks |
Just remember that once you get a house super tight you have minimal 'natural' air exchanges and should have a power vent system to keep VOCs, CO and Radon from building up to unhealthy levels. Not advocating drafty houses :-) but you need to take care of your health as well. | ||
| Hootowl |
"The difference in building price between a cheesy stick build normal suburban home and one designed with slightly thicker walls is minimal. Even going to the conduction break construction with offset studs isn't that much more. You recover that extra cost in just a few years in places where there's actually winter, or LA style summer heat." When I built my addition, I did the alternating stud thing. The foam guys said I was wasting my time. The stud does a good enough job of insulating, as wood is a poor conductor of heat. He also said I wasted my money on a 6" thick wall, as the difference in efficiency with foam is 95 vs. 96 percent in a 3.5 inch vs. 5.5 inch thick wall. Diminishing returns. They said the important thing was to reduce air leakage, which house wrap or foam do extremely well. I live in Houston, and it rarely gets cold (gets really hot though)...might be a different ball game up North. | ||
| Aesquire |
Great example of diminishing returns. What is "excessive" in Dallas is rational in St. Paul. Otoh. The people that told you you wasted money have an interest in pushing their product as the rational solution. It's a good product. But if you "wasted" money it's a tiny percentage. ....... and in reality just one or two more years of payback until the building techniques are pure profit. And the payback is bigger. In other words you did fine. | ||
| Aesquire |
I've got a Harbor freight cheap ir remote thermometer. With the laser. It's not accurate. It does show hot/cold spots just fine. Good tool to look for leaks & weak spots. Just like racing. You fix & improve the weak spots.....Then move to the next. If. Your house is really tight then a heat exchanger to ventilate is a must. I just run the bathroom exhaust fans a certain amount each day. My house isn't that tight. | ||
| 86129squids |
Thanks all, especially Patrick... the price quoted for the job is right at $2500 for my little shoebox 2BR 1BA, just under 1000 square feet. Next time I throw $$$ at more insulation, I gotta suck out all the crappy stuff in my attic, then blow or lay the good stuff in. That'll hopefully be in the spring. My best buddy has lived on a houseboat for the better part of the last 20 years... sometimes I get jealous. But then I've got my fenced in yard, 2 furbuddies, my MC shed/man-cave, my garden, et cetera... | ||
| Aesquire |
Seems like a good deal. Read the operating instructions... "change tips every 8 minutes, or after 30 seconds of not spraying" . It takes some practice, and having the pros do it is not stupid. Probably makes a lot less mess when you have a clue how much it expands and know the tricks. http://tigerfoam.com/sprayfoaminsulation/technical /kit-operation/ | ||
| Airbozo |
Bought my house many years ago in the Summer. Come winter, you could feel the wind blowing through the house. It was originally built in the early '20's as a summer cabin out of redwood; rough cut studs and rafters as well as other structural items. I've done a lot of reconstruction since. Had to remove the redwood rafters because after 80 years baking in the ceiling they were petrified. You could not drive a nail into them by hand and using an air nailer only jammed the nailer or bent the nail. Also had to rebuild the entire front wall due to dry rot (I lived on a stage for almost 2 months). Seems that when they wanted windows, they cut a hole in the wall, trimmed it out(1x2's no header) and just stuck a piece of glass in the hole and trimmed it out. Nothing to cushion the glass or seal it. When I had the come in and foam the open walls, they foamed the unopened ones too and had to drill several holes at different heights because of the blocking in the walls. After they were done I covered everything with drywall instead of trying to repair the tongue and groove wood paneling inside. Now I can barely hear anything outside my house and once the house is heated, it stays warm for a while. Next up is to have them foam under the floors. That should be next year. I've also completely rewired my house to remove any aluminum non grounded wire and found all the original knob and tube wiring, mostly still intact. I re-piped the house about 5 years ago to get rid of the galvanized pipe and took out almost twice the amount I put back in. Freaking pipe dream game under the house and in the walls. had to tear down to the studs in the kitchen to re-pipe and re-wire, so foamed that too. Good stuff if you ask me. Been happy with it. I was warned that the condensation might cause issues. Seems a lot of folks feel that the house does need to breath or you will get water vapor buildup in the walls and ceiling if it is water tight (Plastic between the studs and wallboard). | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
What is the lifespan of this product? | ||
| Hootowl |
Absent ultraviolet light...longer than the wood the house is made of. | ||
| Ourdee |
My radon mitigation pump cost about 5 or 10 dollars a month to run. I plan on putting a whole house fan in my next one. Will have to figure out how to make it air tight when not being used. My plan is to foam one room at a time. | ||
| Aesquire |
DIY? The only problem with that method ( one room at a time ) is you may waste some foam if you've got a partial tank left at the end of the room. The convenience factor, one room at a time, is minimal disruption to family life, but can drag out the process to weeks instead of days. I haven't done the DIY "pour foam into the walls from within" method, yet, but I've used the commercial foam systems. The big difference is the nozzle systems. On commercial ( High use stationary ) systems the guns are much like pro grade paint guns. Solid metal construction and removable & cleanable parts. DIY rigs, use throw away simple plastic guns & nozzles, and you replace all the delivery system between uses, including on some rigs, hoses. Pretty much every time you stop spraying for more than a few seconds, the nozzle clogs, and you just pop on a new one. ( This is why you arrange to spray/pour a whole tank at a time in a smoothly, even dance like shuffle of hose & tank & operator. You know, to be cheap  ) So have extra disposable bits around, a couple of boxes of nitrile work gloves, & "When I'm Done I'm Throwing These Clothes" including socks & shoes. BTW, many guys that do professional insulation use the DIY grade gear for at least part of the operation. I find it funny that videos advertising companies that want to impress you with their professionalism, the guys wear tyvek suits and look all NASA. On the vids where guys who do it for a living you often see well splattered overalls. Safety Rant On. Every one must wear filter masks appropriate for the job. Both chemical & the dust from cutting/sanding any kind of foam is not good. The current systems are pretty low volatiles, so after cleanup the room is safe for family. But you do want to clean up any dust & ventilate the room before occupation. End safety rant. | ||
| Luftkoph |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hh5MYv7lWc | ||
| Hootowl |
Don't know what kind of foam they used. The open cell I used only offgasses water. You can see the steam when they spray it. Little to no odor. The closed cell stuff you're supposed to use up north is petrochemical in nature and stinks like it. Not like fish. And the smell goes away quickly. I guess do some homework before you select an installer. | ||
| Aesquire |
It's also important to be aware of making yourself sensitive/ allergic to the chemicals during installation by overexposure. This is a common problem in the home built boat & airplane world with fiberglass/composite construction. There's a lot of half built projects out there where the builder failed to wear gloves & mask religiously and became allergic. It doesn't seem to matter how green/safe the products are. 2 part systems like the "epoxy" & foams can give weird intermediate vapors if done wrong. Poor mix or too thick or poor protection. ......... And the cleanup is often the culprit. I haven't run into the overthick wet foam problem shown in the above video. I have seem allergy triggered by foam dust while cutting the foam down to stud thickness ( on open bay spraying like used commonly & in the video ) or sanding/cutting cured composite work on airplanes. Most of the time this stuff is great & trouble free. Stupid trumps easy. | ||
| 86129squids |
Thanks again, youn's. The more I know, the better- I got through a fair amount of that video- horrible what that family has gone through with that botched job. From what I've learned, the product my contractor uses is pretty much harmless- I'll throw him a few more questions to be sure. As a kid, until I hit my 20's, I was asthmatic and allergic to about everything- carried an inhaler in my left pocket all the time. DON'T want to go back... plus, one of my dogs is prone to seizures. We've got him on 2 types of medication to control them, but we worry that any heavy chemical fumes might trigger an episode. Here lately the temps have finally been dropping to seasonal normals, down from what felt like summertime- I'm ready to get this place buttoned up for warmth! The PBS show "This Old House" showed a guy blowing/painting in a heavy layer of foam waterproofing on a new structural addition to an existing home- looked very similar. Technically tricky somewhat, but with proper execution, easy peasy. | ||
| Aesquire |
Thin layers so it can cure properly. Protective gear to keep crud out of lungs & off skin. Ventilation to stop build up of fumes while spraying & curing. Patience & common sense plus RTFM. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Absent ultraviolet light...longer than the wood the house is made of. The reason I ask is because I used Daptex Plus Premium Window and Door Latex Foam around an exterior door and when the wind caught my storm door, damaging the jamb, I had to remove the door to repair the jamb and the Daptex had degraded almost into dust. |
