| Author | Message | ||
     Crusty |
One of the interesting things that I don’t usually talk about is politics. I have friends who lean radically left and friends who lean just as radically right. They are all intelligent and they all know that they’re way of thinking is correct, and that those who feel opposite are idiots who can’t accept facts as they are. There is also a tendency to view anybody who isn’t as emotionally invested in politics with suspicion. Well; I’m a suspicious character. How I lean depends on the issue. On some issues, I’m as liberal as a Marxist but on other issues, I can be as conservative as a Nazi. On most issues, I’m somewhere in the middle of the road. That pisses off a lot of people. I don’t care. I form my own opinions. One thing I have noticed is that the most vehement fanatics don’t actually do anything to advance their cause, other than talking incessantly about it; either in person or on the internet. I knew one friend who was rabid in his opinions, yet he wouldn’t even go vote at election time because he was so disgusted with the candidates. If someone really believes in something, why don’t they do something? You can contribute money to the candidate of your choice; If you’re broke, then go volunteer at the local office. they need people to stuff envelopes or make phone calls and do all the jobs that there just isn’t time to get done. They need people who can pick up handicapped or elderly folks and drive them to the polls on election day. Do something to help. Whining on a forum about how Hillary or Trump is going to ruin the country isn’t going to affect the election one bit. Like a lot of people, I have a “Circle” of friends that I receive and send e-mails to and from. Usually, it’s jokes or interesting photos and even some X rated material, but it also includes politics. I usually pass along everything I get, but that has caused people to assume that I endorse a particular viewpoint. In the past decade, I’ve been accused of being radically left, right and I’ve been told that I’m a Racist. And God help me if I pass along something that I don’t verify with Snopes. I really get hammered when I forward misinformation. To quote Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon, “I’m too old for this shit”. Anyhow, to wrap this up, DO SOMETHING!!!. If you really believe in your candidate or viewpoint, get up off your dead ass and put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise, you’re contributing to the candidate you really don’t want to win. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Good morning, John! | ||
| Aesquire |
A serious question. What is "right" today? A mild correction. Nazi is leftist. The Communists have lied and taught the lie that Nazi is right wing. Dead wrong. National Socialist Workers Party. The difference between WW2 Nazis and Soviet Socialist is Nazis are nationalist. Communist is international. ... aka aggressive conquest by internal revolution sponsored by other Communist countries. This is still the pattern over a century later. Germany's Nazis did conquest the old school way. Come with an army and take over. Of course from the view point of the citizens of the conquered countries the tanks running over them look quite similar. I too run high libertarian on some subjects. Not Marxist. That's another myth. Marxists pretend to be open minded but you end up with bands in prison ( see Pussy Power in Russia ) & intolerance of the worst kind. True the hippie movement as pushed by the leftists tended to appear libertarian but much of that was deliberately supposed to be destructive to society. That understood, imho if you combine the freedom of sexuality of the hippie movement and the self responsibility of rational liberalism you have a superior moral stand than most. In other words. Have fun trail riding and maintain the trails. Fly ultralight aircraft and stay out of the way of 747's. Exercise your rights to keep & bear arms and be a responsible citizen. Compare & contrast to a "journalist" who gets PTSD from shooting a .22, and wants to send storm troopers to your house to take YOUR property. In the end there are people who want to run your life and those with no such desire. The latter should be cherished. The former mocked and disobeyed. Possibly forcefully. | ||
| Aesquire |
I vote. I try and convince others my candidate is a better choice. While being open to opinion. I'd far rather be correct than win the argument. If you convince me you are right we both win. I'm smarter and you get confirmation of your view. I seldom give money to politicians and only at a local level. If I give $50 to a candidate it's a contribution. At the national level when millionaires & unions & corporations pay millions it's a bribe. And I don't see my $50 doing much good proportionality. I could be wrong. | ||
| Rick_a |
I support the NRA and contact my reps on issues that are important to me. When it comes to politics I have a hard time with Democratic and Socialist policies because history has shown such things to be the downfall of many great nations and civilizations. | ||
| Hootowl |
"I’m as liberal as a Marxist but on other issues, I can be as conservative as a Nazi" Thanks for the correction Pat. Also, you have to be careful when throwing around the term "conservative". It means different things in different times and places. A conservative Nazi is someone who wants to preserve the ideals of the Nazi party. A conservative American is someone who wants to preserve the ideals of America, and the US Constitution. A conservative Soviet wants a return to communism. "Liberal" has been perverted from "American Conservative" (Our founders were Classical Liberals) to what it means today. Communist/Socialist/Marxist/Progressive. Edit...forgot to close my parenthetical note. (Message edited by hootowl on July 21, 2016) | ||
| Hootowl |
This was intentional, by the way. After all, Liberal is good yes? Just another lie. | ||
| Crusty |
On some issues, I’m as liberal as a Marxist but on other issues, I can be as conservative as a Nazi. If you're going to quote me, use the whole flippin' sentence. Don't try to paint me to suit your purposes. It's funny how some people here try to justify their stance rather than to look at what I wrote. I also like how the definition of some words gets reversed. Suddenly, Liberal and Conservative have reversed their meanings. George Orwell would be proud of you. Doublespeak lives. | ||
| Rick_a |
Whatever you meant, it was poorly worded. If you meant what it reads, you're apparently a bit confused. | ||
| Sifo |
Right, left, liberal, conservative... All pretty much non-descriptive labels without the context of where and when they are being applied. Linking conservative and Nazi in the context of the US simply doesn't make sense. As has been pointed out, the folks behind the American revolution were liberals. Nothing like what we know the label to mean in today's context though. In today's context, a radical conservative would be in line with the radical liberals of America in the 1770s. Crusty, if you have both Marxist and Nazi leanings, you may just be a modern liberal. Maybe our school system just failed you. I really don't know. You seem a bit closed to letting people online get to know who you are politically. I appreciate that neither party is likely to fit anyone perfectly on every single issue, but the general directions of both parties are so diametrically opposed right now, I simply don't understand someone who can't see the need to take a stand on one side or the other. Do y.ou want to live in a Constitutional Republic, or do you want that to change? Today's liberals in this country are doing everything they can to change that. Unfortunately, many of those liberals reside in the Republican party. The Democrat party has quite effectively purged any conservatives. This is not a time where one can realistically be a moderate, and well informed. Perhaps you can be apathetic about the direction of the country, and claim to be moderate, but apathy and moderate really are not the same thing. So I would welcome your opinions in this. Just stop the dance of being non-committal to your beliefs. When you walk into the voting booth, you don't get to be all wishy-washy, somewhere in the middle. Even when you offer support to a candidate outside of the voting booth, you either commit or you fail to support. Our nation is at a fork in the road. You don't get to go a little bit down both roads. You choose a direction and you are committed to that direction. It really is that simple. The only questions that need to be answered is what direction are you going to choose? Why? | ||
| Hootowl |
"use the whole flippin' sentence." The whole sentence wasn't germane to the thrust of my argument, which was not to call you a liberal Marxist, or a conservative Nazi, but rather to point out that the word conservative has many contextually sensitive meanings. | ||
| Hootowl |
"I also like how the definition of some words gets reversed. Suddenly, Liberal and Conservative have reversed their meanings." Funny old thing ain't it? The communists and Marxists of the early 20th century in America knew that America rejected them, so they rebranded themselves "Progressive". When America became wise to the fact that they're really just Socialists, they rebranded themselves again as Liberals, usurping the original meaning of "Liberal". Liberty is not what the Progressives are about. American Conservatives still are. No need to lie to anyone about our ideals and beliefs with word play and trickery. | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm an old school liberal. Not a progressive. Which means I am for progress. These terms were stolen and lied about by the regressive authoritarian Marxists. Not worth anger. Just trying for clarity. Not picking on Crusty at all. He's probably spot on correct on most stuff. Certainly NOT a Nazi. Probably an anti-revolutionary much like me. If individual freedoms and concern for govt. Interference where it's not needed, you are good folk to me.... ( owning nuclear weapons for example. You should have a permit with a background check if you need them for mining or space flight ) On that basis, Obama doesn't gain access. He would fail a military background check because of his connections. Seriously. Barry couldn't be a radio operator in the Army. | ||
| Damnut |
I'm with Crusty on this one and we had a bit of this conversation on our drive to bring him home. I'm the middle of the road guy, I'm an Independent. I vote for whoever I agree with on their views on major issues. I have voted for Dems and Republicans. I do not agree with a lot of what either side spits out of their collective mouths but each side does have some good points on some issues. Although I have been an Independent since I first voted at 18, I find myself leaning a bit more on the right side than left lately. | ||
| Tootal |
I saw an excellent description of government and it went like this. Fascist______________________USA_____Anarchy IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Communism/ Socialism To the left of the railroad tracks are the governments that believe in control of your lives. They know better than you. On the right is no government or anarchy. Our founding fathers knew we needed some laws to keep order but that we should retain as much freedom as possible so our Constitution was put at a point closer to Anarchy than Big Government. However we have slowly creeped to more government and mainly more Federal government. IMHO I believe this was helped along by having our Senators elected by the populous. Our founding fathers thought they should be chosen by the States as they were to represent the States. The Constitution was changed and now they are elected by the people so they have to please the people to get elected instead of representing the States as intended. That’s the main reason our federal government has grown so much. I’m afraid that Progressivism is pushing us closer and closer to the nanny state or MORE government. That’s where I personally have a big problem. It’s funny, I’ve had “modern” liberals call me a Fascist. They obviously have no clue what a Fascist is! When you look it up it says far right and that it opposes liberalism, Marxism and anarchism! Yet Marxism and anarchism are polar opposites. In reality it boils down to Big government or Small government. As a Constitutional Conservative I prefer smaller government. As a tax payer I prefer smaller government. Look at it this way. As governments grow they need more money. They raise taxes and take more freedoms so in essence you’re paying them to rob you of your Liberty. | ||
| Rick_a |
The left is going harder left at each turn and the right is now at center. I fear America may be lost before we realize it. The overly P.C. policies and attitudes are ridiculous and the boo hoo I'm a victim too feelings permeating special interest groups, college campuses, and the general public at large is just pathetic. | ||
| Cataract2 |
The left is going harder left at each turn and the right is now at center.  | ||
| Sifo |
Not shitting you. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
When did Badweb stop censoring shit ? | ||
| Aesquire |
That is why I ask, "What is Right?" John Birchers? Illuminati? Knights of Columbus? The far right in America in the 21st century is either a tiny fringe group you would never meet, or a myth. There are some loonies that try to rationalize they shouldn't have to pay taxes and no laws apply to them, I guess because they never get any representatives they vote for? Honestly, I don't grasp their logic. They aren't Hillary or Bill, so they aren't powerful and rich, don't get bribed million$ to use their influence, and don't have the Press willing to ignore their little foibles..... There's a LOT of people who are patriotic and dedicated to the ideals this nation is founded on. Constitutional conservatives. But really how right wing is that? Sure the Founders didn't anticipate Pokemon Go. They did have a much better grasp of how evil some men can be than most today, and did their best to make a deliberately imperfect system to NOT work too well. Gotta have edges to occupy outside the Mainstream. Jefferson probably would be furious at the War On Drugs, and the War On Poverty. For a variety of reasons but mostly because the Idea that you can fix all human problems with Laws & guns and prisons have never worked in the 14000 years we've had villages. What he'd have to say on the War On Citizens Being Armed is actually public knowledge. He wrote that down. So, Again, What is Right? In other countries, Russia, for example, you can point to it. Ultranationalists? The Mob? Oligarchs who want to live like the Czars? Don't forget, Russia is where the magic phrase comes from. "What this country needs is a short, victorious war to stem the tide of revolution." a quotation by Vyacheslav von Plehve in reference to the Russo-Japanese War. Russia Lost. The Revolution ended up murdering hundreds of millions. The Revolution is Left. Bernie is Left. Trump is left of center. Almost no one is Right. It's a modern myth. | ||
| Rick_a |
This is the traditional view:  This is the new wave liberal interpretation:  | ||
| Ourdee |
I still prefer the word "defecation".} | ||
| Sifo |
It's funny how proposing to follow your own Constitution has become radical. I guess it's why when the laws don't apply to someone like Hillary, the left simply shrugs it off. They see it as radical to apply those laws to everyone as the Constitution demands. I guess the left really think that when the piss on someone and tell them that it's raining, that they will actually believe it's true. I guess I'm just far to radical to accept that to be rain. | ||
| Slaughter |
I like broccoli, hate okra. It's God's law. | ||
| Rick_a |
Some folks seem to enjoy that golden shower. Some appear to even revel in it. When your party is in control of the state and media the useful idiots do their duty. I actually had to explain to a college grad why his promised "free stuff" isn't free. Jeez. | ||
| Blake |
What would happen if a Democrat got up in front of their BLM supporters and spoke the words "ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"? They might make it out alive. That should tell you all you need to know about what that party stands for. | ||
| Snacktoast |
What would happen if a Democrat got up in front of their BLM supporters and spoke the words "ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"? They might make it out alive. That should tell you all you need to know about what that party stands for. It should tell you all you need to know about what the BLM "movement" stands for too.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Radical? No you have a sense of smell. For another take on left-right try https://www.politicalcompass.org/ Instead of a simple line, a plane. Up/down - authoritarian/libertarian & L/R - economic state/free market. For real fun take this test. https://www.politicalcompass.org/iconochasms Note the results for #1. Who wrote of the "impeccable economic logic" of dumping the West's health-impairing toxic waste in "under polluted" Africa because the resultant cancers wouldn't have time to develop in a population with such a low life expectancy? Lawrence Summers Ralph Nader Robert Redford Hillary Clinton Lawrence Summers, as Chief Econonomist for the World Bank, in a leaked memo, December 12,1991. Brazil's Environment Minister, Jose Lutzenburger, wrote to Summers that his proposal was "perfectly logical but totally insane". Lutzenburger was fired for writing the letter. Summers went on to greater things, initially as Treasury Secretary in the final 18 months of the Clinton administration, and now as Barak Obama's Chair of the National Economic Council. | ||
| Aesquire |
Be careful with the labels. I really doubt we have any Nazis here, though the D candidates are close. Hillary is a pretty good clone of Goering, not Hitler. ( That isn't flattering btw ) Before jumping on someone's self definition, first ask the intended meaning. Someone who thinks he's Left Libertarian Hawk may not mean what you think he does. | ||
| Aesquire |
To be fair. I pick on the Party of the Klan, the Plantation, & now neo-marxism. It deserves mocking. The consistent theme has been to pretend concern for the little guy while the rich get the spoils. The R party is the Abolitionist one. Free the slaves, support the citizen, born in grass roots. The trouble with Abolitionist types is they love to abolish stuff. Populist trends and stiff necked righteousness. Simply, you can't let them get carried away. This aspect of the R's is a prime target of the left, & deservedly so. Of course the Ds only tell half truths when doing so. They never mention the hate began with the argument over slavery. Just complain about the excesses of R social conservative thought. So do I.. |
