| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/06/16/thought-a lt-right-bad/ Never heard of this guy until this week. I'm becoming a fan. I admit gay humor may perplex me, but I seldom find it offensive. ( and by gay humor I mean jokes about promiscuity. I don't think there is any other kind... Like Blonde jokes or Redhead jokes. You know they're going to be about dumb or tempers. ) As to "more loyal than"??? God, Family, Liege, Nation. It's a very simple thing, with deep meanings going back thousands of years. First, the basis of your belief in reality. If you have no concept of what is real, then everything else is meaningless. If your beliefs question or reject spiritual side, you can skip this one, since how can you have loyalty to doubt or rejection of the teachings of others? Second, Family. You may have no choice as to relatives, but you chose your Spouse, your partner in life. If you are not more devoted to family than your hobbies, you suck. That doesn't mean you have to love your crazy Uncle that insists Aliens cause Global Warming, all the time, loudly, but he is one of your own. Liege. This one seems pretty obsolete for the most part in 21st century America. It's not. It's who you swear an oath to, and mean it. That may be an abstraction, like the freedom & responsibility of Citizenship. For most seriously sworn oaths that replaces a King, or Lord. It is the Basis for the Oath sworn by military, Government Servants of the people, etc. ( yes Including the President ) Nation is another abstraction, and comes LAST. It may be as vague and casual as sports fandom, or as dedicated and fanatic as.... sports fandom. The other loyalties are more important, and more directly tied to your voluntary assumed responsibilities. A little like family. You are born into it, or choose it. | ||
| Airbozo |
Sifo, While I agree they are different I also believe that both religions are in contrast with the foundation of our country (this will rile some folks). Sure some of the founders held Christian beliefs, but they had the wisdom to put in the separation of church and state clause. Putting your god before country means you will always legislate on what is best for your religion and not necessarily what is best for your country. ...and you are right, it is not a minor difference. Sharia law should be banned in any democratic country as it goes against the equal treatment of it's citizens. (Message edited by airbozo on June 17, 2016) | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo, While I agree they are different I also believe that both religions are in contrast with the foundation of our country (this will rile some folks). Sure some of the founders held Christian beliefs, but they had the wisdom to put in the separation of church and state clause. Putting your god before country means you will always legislate on what is best for your religion and not necessarily what is best for your country. ...and you are right, it is not a minor difference. Sharia law should be banned in any democratic country as it goes against the equal treatment of it's citizens. And this is where you can't look at things in a vacuum. There are real meanings behind being Christian or Muslim. Those meanings have a huge impact on what government can be. Islam demands Sharia. They are not separable. Christianity isn't tied to any specific form of government. It's just not a part of the religion. Yes the founders were wise to try to keep government out of religion. They didn't keep religion out of the government though. We are founded on Christian principles. History is actually quite clear on that. Note that there was never any sort of penalty for not being Christian though. It would seem that even "moderate" Muslims tend to not share that sort of tolerance though. Probably because Islam is not a tolerant religion. So if you are going to ban Sharia law in any democracy, how do you allow for those who's prime directive is to overthrow your democracy and replace it with Sharia? It becomes a very difficult problem when you are trying to be tolerant of those who would do you harm. | ||
| Sifo |
I should add, that putting your God before country doesn't have to mean it will effect legislation. If you have a country with real freedom, there really should be very little conflict with a religion that allows freedom. A candidate with a less tolerant religious background will likely try to legislate that lack of tolerance. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
The Orlando shooter appears to have been gay, so by the laws of Islam, he wasn't even Muslim, right? And you know this how? Why don't we stick to facts. | ||
| Slaughter |
Could you imagine a candidate making the same statement about Judiasm, Mormonism, Buddhism, Hinduism or ISLAM "TRUMPING" (ha ha) the Constitution? Contrast with Kennedy:
(Message edited by slaughter on June 17, 2016) | ||
| Julie |
Oh lol if the US of A were in any way founded based on Christianity, then the economic model of said country would be based on socialism if not communism seeing as how Jesus was all about being a poor man without worldly possessions living a life feeding, clothing, and comforting his fellow man. The ultimate goal of capitalism is for the rich to get richer while crushing the poor into economic and social uncertainty. Aside from the zombie-rising-after-3-days-of-being-dead-worship and the whole homosexual-incestuous aspects of Jesus what with him being his own father impregnating his mother while she is married to another man. | ||
| Sifo |
Could you imagine a candidate making the same statement about Judiasm, Mormonism, Buddhism, Hinduism or ISLAM "TRUMPING" (ha ha) the Constitution? Contrast with Kennedy: It's no problem to be a Christian first. There's nothing preventing you from being true to the Christian faith as well as the Constitution. I would imagine that would be true of most faiths. Not so with Islam. Islam is a faith and government rolled into one. You would be forced to put one above the other, and the secondary one would be compromised. I would expect a religious person to put their faith first. A "good" Muslim would have to compromise their vows to the Constitution. I see the abortion doc has no clue about Christ. Surprised? | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
The country was founded on Judeo-Christian values. It wasn't setup to be a theocracy. Why are you being disingenuous, Julie? | ||
| Aesquire |
Julie, you do realize that Marx ( not the funny one) ripped off the idea from Christian sects that embraced the idea of communal living, lack of greed, etc. He then used those ideals as the frosting on a much darker cake. The "each according to his needs, each according to his abilities" idea was also practiced by the Pilgrims in Mass. They had those ideas mixed with a rejection of the pomp & golden idols of the Church, and were pretty persecuted. In part because they clearly saw how their way was better... and were dicks about it. When they finally went to a place where they would be isolated from the sinners around them, free of the prejudice of the English Normal, with no need for money or wealth, just a happy hippie commune in The New Land......they almost died. It turns out that the isolation from their old society did not actually change human nature. IF everyone was as dedicated to helping everyone else as their ideals wanted, it might have worked.... but the reality is that is rare beyond measure, only happens in tiny groups for a tiny stretch of time, and then, despite the selection of a group of like minded individuals, it fell apart. Some realized that getting their share of the food and material products of labor ( clothing, shelter, stuff.. ) was possible without putting in all the work their dumber neighbors were doing. Centralized economic planning didn't take into account the lazy or dishonest, and they didn't grow enough food. And, gee, no take out. Without the aid of the Natives they would have perished. But more importantly, they realized that the ideals of the Commune were, flawed. They missed a fundamental aspect of human nature. And, in a VERY rare case in history, changed their ways to survive, and left the legacy of the New England Work Ethic. Which at heart is "gotta work hard or we won't make it, and we Know this to be true." So, sure, Jesus was a revolutionary, who wanted to help the poor and ill, and looking back over two thousand years, viewed through the historical lens of the many evil Scum Mothers that ripped off his teachings to screw everyone, you can wrongly say that his actions were "socialism". But that's wrong. That's exactly backwards. "Forbidden Planet" ( 1955 ) is not a rip off of "Star Trek" (1967 ) and Christianity, ( 0 ) is not a rip off of Marxism ( 19th century ) But socialists will lie to you and say so, all the time. Even though we've had absolute proof long before Marx decided his hero was Lucifer, that the ideas are fatally flawed, the POWER that can be gained by using these great sounding ideas, lying about them, and almost always using envy and hate to overthrow the existing establishment, has been a VERY rewarding thing for a small number of evil men. And mass suffering, starvation, torture, war and Murder for hundreds of millions. To quote Mel Brooks. "It's good to be King" Ask a N. Korean. | ||
| Zac4mac |
"Julie" is an ••••••• troll, I thought "she" had been banned. Froggy, fix this. Z | ||
| Blake |
Steve, I'd be surprised if Cruz doesn't also affirm what Kennedy said. The two are not incompatible. Christ taught respect for secular authority. Christ never forced himself upon anyone. Christianity is a deeply profoundly personal journey; it's not a mandate to impose religious doctrine upon others. That would be Islam. That same point explains why a Christian world view would never impose socialism. So many of Jesus' parables deal with people practicing free enterprise and seeking to profit, and he uses the successful businessman as a role model for his teachings. The four Gospels are each short books. Why not give them a read? John is a good on e to start with. Each is tailored to a specific audience. Bill, We're not talking about Muslims, or which of the billion plus might be a problem. I think we're talking about Islam and its doctrines and history. Islam has always been a totalitarian ideology. (Message edited by Blake on June 17, 2016) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436725/orlan do-massacre-political-response?target=author&tid=8 97 | ||
| Court |
The response has turned into a circus. If you own an AR-15 (or any variant) you may be on the cusp of owning a very rare weapon. This may have pushed some over the edge. I learned, after getting shot myself, that the response is almost always ineffectual and pure rhetoric. I tried to get some help after the Sandy Hook shooting in Newtown, CT and was treated to a behind the scenes glimpse of how the facade is largely to create the "we are doing something" appearance. It's going to happen again. We're a country of "soft targets" and venues where an insane person can be 100% assured they are free to carry out their mayhem without worry of any of the potential victims being armed. A 7 year old could divine the solution . . . but it seems to elude politicians. | ||
| Sifo |
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| Ferris_von_bueller |
A 7 year old could divine the solution . . . but it seems to elude politicians. I think you gave the reason why it eludes politicians when you said, "facade is largely to create the "we are doing something" appearance." Politicians by their very nature are control freaks or they wouldn't be politicians they'd stick to being lawyers but that isn't enough to sustain their egos. They must have the power over other people to feel truly fulfilled. Rarely, do they ever want to give the citizens more rights like the right to carry. If they did that it would mean less victims and they don't want that. They want everyone to be a victim so that they can provide all the answers and solutions. This appears to be more of a Democrat trait but the further they work their way up the political ladder the more this rings true for both political parties. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://nypost.com/2016/06/18/why-the-lone-wolf-ter rorist-is-a-myth/ | ||
| Reepicheep |
Most of security is security theater. Believe me, I know. And the really scary part is that the security theater exercises consume most of the time and funding needed to actually add security. I'd love a licensing and training program to create "certified defensive militia" service. It would be a more extensive background check, and train you how to defend yourself and the people immediately around you, and license you to carry concealed even in schools and other prohibited places. You would not be police or military, who has to run to the sound of the guns. You would be the person that happened to be immediately on scene when an event like this develops, and you would be trained in purely defensive / escape / stop the attacker tactics. It would include school teachers and maintenance people being certified, and their identities would be kept private. | ||
| Ourdee |
I always understood the separation of church and state to be keeping the state out of religion not keeping the church out of the state. | ||
| Rick_a |
It's quite ironic the our administrations answer to those bent on destroying the American way of life...is to destroy the American way of life. ...but the NRA and members are terrorists and extremists.  | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/g-file/436782/orlando-shooting-islamic-terrorism-conservative-christians-blame?target=author&tid=897 The essence of serious thinking is the capacity to distinguish s*** from shinola, by which I mean that intelligence boils down to the ability to make meaningful distinctions. There’s a reason Barack Obama had to go back to the Crusades to compare the West to Islam in his notorious effort to talk Christians down from their “high horse”: Because in the world we actually live in right now, and by the standards of not just modernity but also of the secular Left, the West is simply better. That’s right, better, by which I mean superior. The notion that American Christians, even the most ardent Christian conservatives, are indistinguishable from Islamists — or even the typical “moderate Muslims” of Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc. — in their attitudes and practices with regard to homosexuality is not just stupid and ignorant; it is almost literally insane. (Message edited by aesquire on June 18, 2016) | ||
| Aesquire |
...keeping the state out of religion not keeping the church out of the state. Absolutely correct. Mother State cannot tell you how to worship. It's the First Law. That means you can be a Christian, Wiccan, Zoroastrian, Muslim, or even FSM and do public service. And I would hope that your faith would inform you on the morality of doing your job. There may, will in fact be conflicts. If there is a Law your faith conflicts with, you have choices. ( you don't have Choices in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc. ) You can ask to be excused from that part of your job. You can quit. You can refuse to do that part of your job in conflict, and accept that you may get fired. And you can always protest the law, and argue that it be repealed. In America. And if your faith conflicts with the job and you know this before you try and get it, you are being dishonest. | ||
| Rick_a |
This is common sense... https://www.youtube.com/watch?=CATKBjsuyp0 | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436505/mass- shooting-florida-anti-gay-violence-rooted-muslim-l aw When you have to go back to the Crusades to try and equate Sharia with Christianity you are really reaching. And most get the facts wrong. Probably out of ignorance, while parroting the propaganda of some vile people. A baker not wanting to cook a cake for a Gay wedding is not on the same planet as a guy who shoots and murders more than 100 people in a gay bar. | ||
| Reepicheep |
As one of the lead "don't generalize Muslims" voice here... I completely agree. As a religion, and using a generalization to discuss generalizations, western Christianity actually pretty much rocks in terms of value systems. The number of Christian bigots is a pretty small percentage, and they are clearly living in contradiction to obvious Christian teachings when they do it. | ||
| Aesquire |
I personally think you can trace racial bigotry in the U.S. mostly from post Rome Colonial Europe. Happy to defend that thesis. There's a serious long term racism factor in the China/Korea/Japan group. A combination of repeated invasion and migration. Genetically the migration pattern follows the path as listed. This has little to do with Europe. ( Which as real outsiders are biased against by the Asian civilizations anyway. Plus the whole "my ancestors built a highly advanced civilization while yours were in mud huts" factor in ego. ) | ||
| Torquehd |
Most of that video was good Rick, but I disagree with, "if you can't evade or escape the incident, then defend yourself"... How about, in the event of an attack, respond toward the danger, not only to save yourself, but to save countless other Americans who would be the shooter's victims. Of course, that's an ideal. Not everyone is a sheepdog. We're a country of "soft targets" I've been in a few SE Asian countries where every street corner and store in town has security guards standing holding a shotgun or AR, due to recurrent islamic attacks. It's so much nicer to come home to America and live a normal life. Where folks historically have been safe being "sheep". That's how it's supposed to be. But alas it is not. go back to the Crusades to try and equate Sharia with Christianity Yes, the dark powers that rule this world would love to tell you that Christianity murdered muslims. They won't mention the millions of Christians (protestants) tortured, burned, beheaded by the same Catholic church. I say this at the risk of offending any Catholics here on the forum. Catholic history is not Christian history. It is Christianity hijacked, with occult indoctrination bleeding out of every joint and seam. Which is not comparable to what we're seeing out of Islam today. These psychopaths who blow folk up in the name of "Aloha Snackbar" are doing EXACTLY what their "prophet" told them to do. The Inquisition, however, was NEVER commanded by Jesus or God (however, it was hinted at, by Jesus - he spoke many times about persecutions to come, how those who killed true believers would believe that they were doing God a service, etc). If mateen being a homo means that he wasn't a muslim, then I'm telling you, Afghanistan is full of folks who have a serious misunderstanding of their religion (well, that's true regardless). Man love is so common in those crappy third world muslim countries. Except they don't call it love, and they say it's only gay if you actually love the person. Just kissing or having sex doesn't make you gay. | ||
| Sifo |
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| Sifo |
Nope, no Islamic terrorism here folks. Move along... Nothing to see here... Lynch: "Partial Transcript" Of Orlando 911 Calls Will Have References To Islamic Terrorism Removed It's pretty sad to see this administration going through contortions to write their own version of history. What other governments have been known for such things? | ||
| Alfau |
Fact check. https://player.vimeo.com/video/167607521 |
