| Author | Message | ||
     Zane |
The world is becoming a scary and dangerous place. With that in mind I’ve made the decision to return to concealed carry. After all, shouldn't we all consider ourselves in the American militia? Are we not all responsible for our own safety? I’ve been trying to think through a concealed carry issue and would like the wisdom from the collective. It’s safe to say that one gun isn’t the answer to every carry situation. I live in a warm climate (Southeast Texas currently) so my daily dressing habits could be anything from dress shirt, tie and dress slacks at work to tee shirt and shorts on a trip to Walmart. I might have a light jacket on in cooler months. So different gun models for different situation seems to make sense. The down side of multiple guns is the training issue. Different guns handle differently. The safety is in different places and may operate differently. The magazines releases are different, triggers have different break and reset points. With different guns come different training issues. So my question is how people handle it. Only carry one gun? Train with both and hope the right muscle memory kicks in? Some other method? What I’m considering is moving over to the Glock world from 1911 type handguns. Third/Fourth Generation issues aside, all Glocks handle pretty much the same. They all have the same trigger characteristics when it comes to feel, break and reset points. The magazine release is all in the same place, the maintenance is the pretty much the same throughout the lineup. I’ve been reading and been to the range to rent and fire and this is what I’ve come up with. With Texas going to an open carry system (for concealed permit holders) I think my every day carry choice is: Glock 30S. The pluses are that it’s .45 caliber with 10 round capacity. If the balloon goes up, it will hit hard and 10 rounds is a good start. Also .45 caliber makes logistics easier with my other firearms. The cons are that it’s not really that concealable and at best would require IWB carry. More likely outside the belt. Glock 26 Pluses are it’s a little lighter and not as wide which makes for easier carry. 9MM is a serious round and it still has 10 round capacity. Cons are that it’s not a true pocket gun so not as concealable as I’d like. 9MM would require me to stock a new caliber round in my tiny arsenal. Glock 43 Pluses are that it’s small, light and fairly easy to conceal. It will be an easy gun to carry. It will make stocking 9MM more reasonable since it will be required for two guns not just one. The cons are 6+1 capacity instead of 10. Not a big deal to my mind but is a minor issue. I just don't see myself in any extended fire fights. So, does it make sense to standardize on Glock? I’ve never owned one but most everyone agrees they’re anvil reliable, eat just about any ammunition you can get in them and all handle much the same. Am I correct in thinking the training would cross Glock models and muscle memory would be the same no matter which one is in my hand? What am I not considering that I should? Is there any other gun system that I should be thinking of that leverage training across models? Thanks in advance for all input and suggestions. That is unless you’re a gun hating, Kumbaya singing, commie liberal, douche canoe who farts rainbows and knows better than I do how to live my life. If that’s you then go kiss my wrinkled rear end. | ||
| Hootowl |
If you're concealed carrying, consider the bulk of the gun. In warm climes, where we live, concealing even a compact gun is nearly impossible because you can't even wear a light jacket to cover your holster at your waistline, without dying of heat exhaustion, for a good portion of the year. For me, carrying means pocket carry. I chose the kimber micro carry, but the 43 would fit the bill. | ||
| Ourdee |
In Illinois concealed has to be "CONCEALED". But when I was in Indiana, I just wore on my waste and had a loose shirt on over it. When I lived in the desert I always wore a loose shirt over top of everything and if carrying that is what I'd go with. Makes everything a viable option. | ||
| Henshao |
Hell of a place to ask. IMO, convenience is king. Find something you're sure you'll always bring with you. For me, that was a Kahr Arms CW45. Very light, very thin, and yet still a .45ACP. Don't underestimate the light and thin part, I'd rather have six or seven tries with a 45 than none with the thick heavy pistol I decided to leave at home "just this once." | ||
| Hootowl |
"I'd rather have six or seven tries with a 45 than none with the thick heavy pistol I decided to leave at home" Exactly. | ||
| Anonymous |
Ruger LCP. Can hardly tell it's in my front jeans pocket. | ||
| Zane |
I'm in 100% agreement. I've legally carried in the past and know what a hassle it can be. That's why I'm thinking different handguns for different situations. In the past I carried a little Keltec .32. That's not much more potent than a poke in the face with a sharp stick but it is the easiest gun in the world to carry. No one gun does it all so a combination of these three pistols cover almost all situations I can think off. I know me. If I only get the G30, there will be times it just isn't easy to carry so I might not. That's where the other guns come in. One will be right for the situation. It's a little more expensive this way. I figure with good shopping, I can probably do it for $1500 for the three. Then there's the cost of holsters and ammunition to break in / train with. Anyone have a suggestion for another brand where training across models is the same? | ||
| Zane |
I've looked that the Ruger LCP and like it. Not much bigger than my Keltec but a 9MM round. I'm partial to the .45 cartridge though and would like to have that as my main carry option. Is there a larger version of the LCP that operates the same. Again the goal is to have the same training across whatever system I choose. | ||
| Anonymous |
I view the LCP as the tool that will get me from point A to point B in a SHTF situation. Point B is where I keep all the other tools needed for the SHTF situation. | ||
| Zane |
You're exactly right about a pistol being a tool. What ever I have on me will be used remove myself from whatever dangerous situation I couldn't avoid. If I can leave without firing a shot, that's the biggest win. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. | ||
| Rick_a |
I'll carry a 1911 with a J frame backup or a pair of revolvers. It's all preference. If your gun works, shoots true, and you can run it well, that's all there is to it. I hate wide guns. They feel like a brick in the pants. There's lots of folks going to full size guns in case of the worst case scenario, but going up against a long gun with a handgun only ends well in the movies. It's certainly better than nothing. I'm just not into the notion that 100 rds of ammo on the person are a necessity. I have from full size guns to subcompacts and pocket guns. They rotate depending on dress and clime. | ||
| Rick_a |
For other guns with similar size ranges there's the Springfield XD line, Smith&Wesson M&P series, Ruger SR series and LC9, FN pistols, and Sig P320 (which happens to be modular as well). They are all good. | ||
| Hootowl |
I got to shoot the P320 last weekend. Very nice. Easy gun to shoot. I did better my first time with that than I do with my own P239. | ||
| Hootowl |
P320 has a pretty short grip, so it'll conceal better, but it's still a stacked mag, so it's as wide as you'd expect. The cool thing is, as mentioned, it's modular. The guts of the gun ARE the gun. That's where the serial number is. You can stuff it in another frame, with a different barrel, and a different slide and it's legally still the same gun. Pretty neat. | ||
| Zane |
Hoot, Pretty much anything in Sig Sauer's line is a quality firearm. I especially like the P290 in 9MM. But I don't see any one pistol suiting all my needs. That's why I'm looking for a something where the controls are the same through an entire lineup. | ||
| Henshao |
What are your needs? | ||
| Tootal |
In the theme of it's better to have something instead of nothing I have been using a little North American Arms 22 LR. The grip folds up over the revolver so the shape in tighter pants does not look like a gun. When shooting it with it's 1-1/8" barrel it puts out a blinding amount of light and is really noisy. At night it would at least scare the crap out of you! I can hold a 5" group at 20 yards standing. I also prefer to aim at the pelvis. It will fold them like a jack knife.  As others have said, it depends on where I'm going to be. If the danger levels are higher then I carry accordingly. My DAO 380 backup is a much better weapon and still pretty easy to conceal. | ||
| Zane |
Henshao, I'm looking for everyday carry, nothing fancy or exotic. At work it's long sleeve dress shirts, and dress slacks. In cooler weather, I'll wear a light jacket. In my off hours it's jeans or cargo shorts and a tee shirt. I'm as casual as some one can get. I'm in Texas so open carry will soon be legal and I'm not opposed to open carry either IWB or outside the belt. The only issue is that I work on a community college campus so can't carry here until July 2017 and it must be concealed. Away from work and home, I want ease of carry. I would want it with me while doing all the normal stuff, grocery shopping or on a date or at the auto parts store. Basically just living life. I don't see a full sized service weapon working in July when I'm in cargo shorts and a tee shirt so that requires a smaller frame. Dressed in pants and a sports jacket for a night out, a large frame/caliber would be nice. Larger is also better if I am forced to go someplace I perceive as having a higher threat level too. So 2 or 3 side arms of different size but all operated the same is what I'm looking for. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
This I find hard to believe with that piece. I have fired snubnose guns before and the bullets seem to have a mind of their own after leaving the barrel. | ||
| Henshao |
So you want a big one and a little one that have the same layout. I'm not sure you need the full sized service pistol. I'm a fan of the one and done approach. But the CW45 ticks all the boxes except magazine capacity. Kahr also makes even smaller 45's; the PM45 can be pocket carried if I recall. | ||
| Hootowl |
By same layout, do you mean all 1911, or all striker fired with trigger safety, or DA/SA with no safety and a decocking lever, etc.? | ||
| Henshao |
My assumption was, firearms from a series that have the same controls, ergos and etc | ||
| Aesquire |
This is one area I can't give "buy that one" advice. It's all fit. Like Helmets. A tall, lanky guy like Clint Eastwood can carry a 6" N frame revolver in a shoulder holster, where I can't because I'm far more round than that, and it prints, big time. Also there's clothing, I don't wear suits often, and it's SOP for a Detective. Also, if a Clint shaped policeman has his gun seen by a moron in a restaurant, he can flash a badge and defuse the situation. I would get a "brandishing" charge in NY and ruin the evening... and year, even if I beat it. So it's what fits your body, your clothing, and your local laws. I completely understand the desire to keep to one common action system & switchology. I have to keep it concealed or risk intense hassle, so I lean FOR ME towards pocket pistols and ankle holsters. Revolvers have actually come a long way, and I'm seriously considering a Ruger LCR in 9mm , which not only has adequate power, but faster loading than a regular revolver. Although speedloaders go a along way to even that up, they are bulky in the pocket, and you can get a smaller dump pouch for the moon clipped ammo. An alternative is a Sneaky Pete "tablet" holster, which works if you are an obvious electronic gadget guy. If you don't have earbuds blatantly in view, it loses some stealth, and makes you more a target no matter if the bad guy thinks you have cool toys to steal, or is savvy enough to figure out you're packing. ( OTOH a savvy robber usually won't pick on an armed person ) Fanny packs are SOOOOOO '90's that I assume anyone with one is packing. So do a lot of others. The major disadvantage of ankle holsters is speed, and they can be a problem if you run. The advantage is car accessibility, and when you're curled in a ball on the ground trying to avoid a beating or stray rounds. I prefer inside ankle weak side. Both hands to draw. You DO have to practice walking around with ANY holster, especially an ankle rig, since initially it throws your natural gait off. And, as always, clothing matters. Boot cut loose jeans are good, skinny jeans are not. Tactical Khakis usually work, but are becoming a tell. Revolvers are nice since they don't toss evidence all over. They tend to be a thicker lump. You couldn't ask for a simpler manual of arms, but reloading takes more fine coordination. No choice is perfect for all situations. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
It doesn't get genuinely hot here in MN but when it does, it's hard to beat the all round reliability, lightweight, and compactness of a J-frame sized revolver. There is an interesting 9mm model from Charter I was hoping to take a look at. The advantage being a shorter case in the 9 will clear the cylinder on a reload unlike a 38 that is still hanging about 3/16 in when the ejector is bottomed. My dream revolver is an AL framed SS barrel 9mm using moon clips. That would make for speedy reloads. Having said that, most of the time my CCW gun is a compact 45 1911 style, and when I know I'm going to have a heavy coat on all the time, its a full size high cap 9mm. Holsters vary from IWB, OWB, pocket, and ankle for when I don't really want to worry about being "made". Just be sure not to scrimp on the holsters, mag/ ammo carriers, and belts. Good gear makes whatever your choice is a lot more comfortable to pack. This is America dang it, you don't have to settle. You can own the ideal for each situation | ||
| Henshao |
This is America dang it, take the unlimited budget approach  | ||
| Zane |
The unlimited budget approach??? Bawaaahahaha!! Sure, no problem. I'll just sell a kidney. Henshoo hits the nail on the head. I'm hoping to find s series of guns with identical controls throughout the model series. Like the Glock 30s and the Glock 43. Both have identical controls in the same location. I want to be able to train once but have it apply to both or all three guns that I buy. I'm a big fan of 19ll style handguns. I've owned several and shoot them well (for me). I'm not of fan of carrying cocked and locked. That's why I'm not just getting 1911 style handguns for this. I'm not a big guy and that makes things harder I'm 5 foot 10 and 190, and unfortunately not a buff 190. I have a 30 inch inseam. So I'm not the kind of guy that can carry a full size side arm and hide it well. | ||
| Henshao |
One thing I like about Kahrs, aside from their offset feed ramp allowing the thinnest pistols on the market, is that they have no safety. Just a fairly heavy trigger. Well, they have an internal "drop safety," the firing pin is blocked until the trigger is fully depressed. A little redundant, considering the firing pin is under very little tension at rest. But it is the ideal for a carry gun IMO. By the time you've pulled it out and are on target, trigger weight won't matter much to you but Heaven forbid it doesn't go bang because you forgot to flip a switch. I can't totally recommend Kahr because they don't make any double stack weapons as far as I know. No point in carrying a full size Kahr, for your purposes, when all the smaller ones will accept the full size magazines. Two more inches of barrel is basically the full-size Kahr's offering. I can only assume you want a full size model offering a double-stack magazine with like 15 rounds for when you're wearing your winter coat. I don't personally subscribe to this as I said earlier But hey, YMMV | ||
| Fresnobuell |
As a rule I never use a guns safety. I just don't store or transport the gun chambered. Thus, when I chamber a round or a shell, I know exactly what's gonna happen when I pull the trigger. My thinking is if I am in a daze or fog from let's say being woken from REM sleep, it's more straightforward to pump the shotgun or pull the slide on the pistol then try to find the safety (and simultaneously hoping I am turning the gun on and not off.) Plus being left-handed usually means the safety often is not in the most convenient spot...it's a conspiracy I say!!! | ||
| Henshao |
In addition to the four rules of gun safety, I like to include my personal 5th rule: Always check a firearm to make sure its chamber and magazine are in the condition you expect, if the firearm has been out of your personal possession. I perform chamber checks on my stuff a lot of times even when they haven't been out of my personal possession. Just to be sure. | ||
| Hootowl |
It's easier to thumb off the safety than it is to rack the slide. I keep one chambered. My sig is da/sa so all I have to do is pull the trigger with it decocked and the kimber is sa, but the hammer won't contact if the trigger isn't fully pulled. The safety truly renders it safe. I'd rather have to remember to the thumb off the safety, which is really just muscle memory, than have to chamber a round in an emergency. |
