| Author | Message | ||
     Bob_thompson |
That is one great link Patrick (Aesquire) posted. I read many of the replies also and agree with almost everything Jerry Smith said with one exception. Following below. My take is: I agree it does very much take special skills to ride a high performance sport bike to at least some of its potential. It likewise takes some special skills to drive a high performance car to some of its potential also. Both can be great fun, an adrenaline rush and much pleasure. Where I disagree is this he said: "Both cars and motorcycles get me where I’m going. But only motorcycles make me feel alive on the way." I think, for me, there is a greater skill level riding my 1125R and more an adrenaline rush due mostly to the sheer H.P. to weight ratio and its performance level and yes both get me where I'm going but my Z28 Camaro also gives me an absolute fun ride with great performance, "I do feel alive" AND mostly, I feel better with my wife along sharing our experience together more safely. Bob (Message edited by Bob_thompson on October 22, 2015) | ||
| Etennuly |
Both can be great fun, an adrenaline rush and much pleasure. Where I disagree is this he said: "Both cars and motorcycles get me where I’m going. But only motorcycles make me feel alive on the way." I agree with you Bob, and the thing is, perhaps he never had the right car or learned how to use it properly.  (Message edited by etennuly on October 23, 2015) | ||
| Etennuly |
I know it is my car and my picture, but damn, that is one of the best pictures I have taken over many years of trying to get a poster worthy one. Not bragging or even very proud of this particular car, but it is like 'Bob Ross' meets.....well.....me.   I took it to the local Wally World foto buzz kill department to get one of those wall plaque things. They cropped the entire sky out! That took out half the mountains. I was mad. I made them do it over. I did not want an in your face picture of the car, but rather the car sitting in a most awesome setting. I had to bring the picture back out of my phone, resize and schew it to make it work out for their inept non-existing-sizing program. I went back with it. They still cropped out too much of 'Bob Ross's' work. IMHO he's doing some really beautiful work where ever he is now!  (Message edited by etennuly on October 24, 2015) | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
you work for Sunoco or sponsored by them or what? | ||
| Aesquire |
Where I disagree is this he said: "Both cars and motorcycles get me where I’m going. But only motorcycles make me feel alive on the way." I'm not going to argue, I agree. IMHO it's not arguable. Many times I've heard, and a few times said..... "Only X makes me feel alive" Or better and more inclusively phrased, "I really feel alive when I'm...... -Driving -riding my Motorcycle -skydiving -skiing -wrestling alligators -surfing -fighting melee with a 6 foot battle axe -scuba diving under the ice -dating twins -teaching someone a new skill -hitting the target with an arrow in one smooth unconscious act -swinging on a rope out over the water in a quarry on a hot day....... " And all the above are, in fact correct. ( truthfully I've never wrestled an alligator or dated twins. I doubt I've spent 7 consecutive seconds thinking about the joys of alligator wrestling. ) Telling someone who reveals his/her inner joy over crazy stuff, that they'd be better off doing something from your list of crazy stuff, doesn't usually work, since they may think your list is dull. Or too crazy. http://acidsquirrel.com/post/84990 So, I don't disagree. With you or the guy who's "only alive" riding. | ||
| Etennuly |
Sunoco sponsor or work No. The colors, the side pipes and such are my rendition of a tribute car to the Penske/Sunoco 1966 427 corvette that kicked the road racing world in the butt in it's debut. Penske carried the colors for many years. Their early Camaros were really awe inspiring also. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Driving in a car will never be as fun as riding a bike. Impossible. The sheer difference in physics of having 4 wheels versus 2 makes riding a superior experience. There is also something about riding at a sporty pace that puts me in a zone I don't get from anything else. I think it's because my ass/life/well-being is really on the line and a lapse in focus/concentration at the wrong time can be very detrimental. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Could just as easily substitute "motorcycle" for "car" in the above sentence, if one wanted to turn this around | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Except for the Sunoco sticker...get rid it. It's totally out of place and reminds me of the squids that put the race stickers on their bikes to go along with their with two-inch chicken strips. | ||
| Etennuly |
The decal goes real well with the rest of the yellow gold number decals that need to. be on it for Autocross events that I run, and track days that I will be running. When I get the those numbers/letters cut in a size and style that I like they will stay on the car due to the frequency that i am racing it. I raced it four days before this pic was taken. Call me squid if you like. I see a day coming soon that this hot rod will be replaced with a newer version for the street. It will then wear it's slicks full time and only get highway miles on a trailer. I can't add a link from my phone, but if you google "1966 roger Penske racing" you can see where it is going, kinda. They ran lots of convertible body style cars too. If you look, flip through the pages. Some pretty cool stuff. When I did corvette shows all over Florida in1995/1996, I parked my then new Vette right beside some of the collector cars that come up on that Penske link. Mostly at the Sebring int'l speedway events. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
It might be the same color, but it looks out of place Again, sponsor stickers when you arent sponsored. | ||
| Aesquire |
More alive = more immersive. In a car on the straight line highway can be like watching a video game. In a car on a twisty road can be like playing a video game. On a bike is being in the real world. You smell the flowers and cow flops, feel the fog as the road dips next to a creek, the acceleration is usually higher, & you are exposed to nature unlike a coupe. Then there is the exposure to risk vs. skill. Of course mountain biking on Niagara Falls beats road biking across South Dakota. Ymmv. And that's ok. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I do mostly agree Patrick (Aesquire) except this somewhat: "You smell the flowers and cow flops, feel the fog as the road dips next to a creek, the acceleration is usually higher, & you are exposed to nature unlike a (coupe)." Coupe is a key here; in a roadster/convertible you do feel, smell and hear much more then in a coupe and of course you're right about the acceleration. I still stand by my statement though about feeling alive in any "performance" roadster and lust for this one: with respect, good thread guys, Bob  | ||
| Aesquire |
Making my point about immersion being a factor in fun. Convertible better than sedan. Bike better than car. Shot out of a cannon in a swimsuit.... ok, that's past my comfort zone.  By all means stand by your statement. I don't disagree. In aviation, the Airline pilots look down on the GA ( Cessna ) pilots. They have far more hours and experience. ( and far less percentage of time actually flying the airplane. Most is spent programming nav computers and on autopilot. ) The GA pilots look down on the Sailplane guys. ( Impractical fringe stuff, bah! humbug! ) The sailplane guys look down on the hang gliders. ( occasionally the hang gliders look down on the sailplane guys, and that Really irritates them. Nothing like staying above a $100,000 dollar glass German super glider in light lift with a $3000 cloth and aluminum glider ) And every one of the above thinks skydivers are lunatics. The skydivers think base jumpers are fringe maniacs. And all of the above know the human ornithopter builders are crazy. More in the moment/more sensory input.... more fun. But I'm not exclusive to just bikes. Many ways to get the fun times. The alligator wrestlers are nuts, IMHO. They'd probably consider me crazy for flying. In cars... I'm prejudiced against loud cars that aren't fast in proportion to acceleration. Was it Mustang or Camaro that had a noise tube from the engine compartment to under the dash to make it louder for the driver when he stepped on it? BMW pumps engine noise ( fake ) over the stereo to "add to the experience". Enjoy your wyrd. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Didnt know that about the engine tube thing, interesting | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=419 025 | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/ame ricas-best-selling-cars-and-trucks-are-built-on-li es-the-rise-of-fake-engine-noise/2015/01/21/6db09a 10-a0ba-11e4-b146-577832eafcb4_story.html In Europe they have considered making electric cars emit noise for safety reasons... a polite chime perhaps. This is for sales and image reasons... Uncool? you be the judge. I'm just going to laugh. | ||
| Etennuly |
The roadster/conv vs coupe enhancing the ride is the same with the targa top. I drove 150 miles on a nice hot summer day, on the Interstate at 75-80 mph, from Knoxville Tn. to Bowling Green Ky. I got wind burn, sun burn, and temporary hearing deprivation from wind noise.....just like a totally open top roadster. The two things I notice most about the open top car in comparison to riding the bike are the similarity of feeling the differences in temperature as it transitions thorough cool wooded areas compared to open areas, sun\shade, day/night, and the smells. I call it "smell-i-vision". On my Uly I have found areas that I can ride through in spring time that are amazing, with flowers, cooking, campfires, etc. I can almost see my way home by the smells. I had never 'heard' of this noise pumping program until now. Did you say it was done a long time ago also? "Tribute" cars are generally stickered up just as the original race cars were. I have attended 'historic race events' where old former race cars are held to an as exact as possible look as when the cars were originally raced. The original sponsors who's names are on the cars, no longer sponsor them, many of the companies no longer exist even. I have some cool pictures of Bobby Allison's Miller sponsored GTP car from the late 60's. I photographed it during a full on high speed timed race in 1996 at Sebring. It was a beautiful thing to see and hear. They also ran several old Indy cars and Nascar cars each in the original owners full sponsor paint schemes. This is what inspired me to do the "tribute" paint scheme on my old Vette. When it is done it will be in full race paint scheme styling. But it will likely also become a full time trailer queen with racing slicks and no more license plate. I am in no hurry, so I will be running autocross and the car will evolve as I am working my way into it. | ||
| Pwnzor |
In Europe they have considered making electric cars emit noise for safety reasons... I don't remember where I saw the story, but some lady sued some other lady because she got run over by a Prius while jaywalking... she couldn't hear it coming, never mind that she was crossing against a red light. Must have been in California with a story like that | ||
| Hootowl |
I've seen that movie. | ||
| Sifo |
I won't deny the visceral feel of riding a bike. It's different from any car I've ever been in. The aerodynamic pressures you feel with speed is unique to hanging out in the open. But then many choose to hide behind a fairing, and lose much of that feeling. Are they wrong to do so? Of course not. Many of us also choose to wear a plethora of protective gear, all of which takes away from the raw, visceral experience of riding some of the most basic of machines down the road. Still, we manage to become emotionally attached to the act of carving our way down the road, in a way that is difficult to describe to the uninitiated. To me, nothing compares to leaning into a turn and carving your way through it. I got hooked on that feeling at a very young age water skiing. Since that young age, I've gotten hooked on road bicycles, mountain bikes, snow skis, snow boards, surf boards, windsurfers, and motorcycles. I've dabbled with a few others along the way too. No car has ever provided that same feeling of carving through the turns. So is driving a car less visceral? Well most certainly are, let there be no doubt about that. The typical car insulates you from the road, and the elements. There's a lot to be said for that. Some cars have you very connected to the road though. The nice thing about driving this sort of car is that I can do it at a level far beyond what I would survive long term on a motorcycle. Sure a motorcycle demands a level of concentration that few things compare to. It's not the demand of concentration that gives the experience though. It's the single minded concentration itself. Apply that concentration behind the wheel of a car that has you connected with the road, and the experience is quite comparable. Take the top off of that car, and you regain some of what you are missing from the bike. Actually, you gain much of what you don't get on a bike, at least if you are an ATGATT kind of person. You get wind in your hair (assuming you still have hair for wind to rustle through). You get sun on your skin. These are things that I miss when riding a motorcycle. Are they equal? Of course not. Is one better than the other? I give that question a resounding yes. Both are better than the other in various ways. If you can't grasp that, you may be one of those who would question why someone would want to have more than one motorcycle. To most of us, the answer is obvious. All that's needed, is to expand the horizon of your mind if you don't understand what a roadster can deliver. Of course, YMMV.  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Visceral differences are obviously there, as has been well pointed out. My point about the physics is undeniable and not subjective. In a car, passengers are always fighting cornering forces. On a bike, so long as you are able to lean the bike far enough, you will be able to offset the cornering forces and it makes for a much more pleasant experience. | ||
| Etennuly |
In a car, passengers are always fighting cornering forces. On a bike, so long as you are able to lean the bike far enough, you will be able to offset the cornering forces and it makes for a much more pleasant experience. I totally agree. On a bike you become part of the machine by moving with it as one. You get that feel that you are cornering like an ice skaters blade carving through the corners. In the four wheel machine you can do the same and get the same feel by having a proper race seat and harness. It is nearly impossible, and truly a fight against G forces, when you are not strapped tightly in to become that 'one' with a car. It is essential in racing circumstances and extreme cornering exercises. I had a tough time the first time I ran the autocross track because I thought that the "cinch" button on the factory seat belt might do something important, not so. I don't have the racing seat or five point harness in it yet, but I fabbed up some side padding that I stuff between my left side and the door and my right side and the console. That allows me to concentrate on driving and not holding myself in place. Autocross became a lot more fun, my times got consistent, and I was a couple of seconds faster per lap, simply because I no longer have to fight the G forces, I can experience it more like the ice skating analogy. When I drove my dirt track car years ago, I always felt invincible in it, like I was putting on a suit of armor when I strapped in the seat. Becoming one with a car while steering it sideways with the throttle, on a banked corner in traffic at 75 mph, is as amazing as any feeling you can get cornering on a bike. I have been to the edge with both, and love it equally. My contention is that people who have not had that 'at one with it' feel in a car, have just not been properly set up in it and have not gone fast enough far enough. | ||
| Aesquire |
My contention is that people who have not had that 'at one with it' feel in a car, have just not been properly set up in it and have not gone fast enough far enough. A fair statement. True across the board, it takes practice to get the kinesthetic feel wired in any "sport". Martial arts, flying, riding, etc. a goal is to lose the consciousness of the interface between man & Machine, so you just Do. In martial arts, the modern western "analysis", you do katas, repetition of a move, repeatedly until your "combat computer" can activate that action sequence with minimum time and conscious effort. Bypass higher functions on the operational level, ( muscle memory ) while retaining overall control of tactics and moves. On a simpler level if you think about walking consumes a lot of processing power. While driving, it's the practice to turn the wheel in response to reality in your path. Traction, traffic, path of road, bumps, wind, observed and subconsciously calculated vectors and forces. You start out having to think about so much of what you are doing, because none of it is programmed response. Most people master this complex task well enough to stay alive. Which is really amazing. Most folk reach a level of comfort in driving skill and that's that for life. Not much desire to go fast or turn hard. A lot of that is cultural conditioning, training, and the culling of the herd in adolescence. A fair number, though, feel the need for speed, or G's, or whatever, and do & learn more. Doing what? Hey it's all good. I agree with Bob, that "only (superlative) doing X" is incorrect, in one sense. OTOH I agree with the author of the editorial in question, because the "being there" on bikes it just more demanding and rewarding, than "just driving" a car. I don't think it's an either/or. It's a spread of mojo. You do pay for the privilege of being closer to nature. Riding in the rain, for example. Ditto an open top car. ( saw a news report in LA of a fellow moving to SF in his top down convertible, surfboard & possessions stacked up. It was 30 f. ) ( my first time in LA, too. My first time in Florida, camping under the stars, it snowed in Miami for the first time ever. It might be me. ) But Targa tops let you smell the flowers at speed too. Very cool. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I have never gotten motion sickness from my bike. I think that unto itself speaks volumes as to what is a better experience. | ||
| 86129squids |
I've done Deal's Gap in a car twice- once with a GF in her drop-top Beemer, the other with my parents in a small sedan... the first time was OK, much better car for it, the 2nd time, nobody much enjoyed it. Once we got away from the twisty stuff and onto the Cherohala, my folks much more enjoyed themselves. That road is really best enjoyed on 2 wheels, IMHO. Way too twisty otherwise! Hoping sometime next year to pick up a decent drop-top. Anyone know anything about those Pontiac G6 hardtop 'verts? A buddy has one, seems like a decent car. I didn't even notice it was a convertible until I looked closer at his. | ||
| Sifo |
I have never gotten motion sickness from my bike. I think that unto itself speaks volumes as to what is a better experience. Well, it says something about you, not the car. Do you get motion sick in the front seat of a car? I know people who get sick in the back, but are fine in the front. I've only gotten motion sickness below deck on a sailboat. It does suck! | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I do not know much about motion sickness as I have never experienced it in any vehicle even aircraft or watercraft. But I do believe there is a fine line between riding a bike or driving a car, even a very fast boat or any vehicle for that matter, to a point where your apprehension and some fear of crashing overwhelms your fun factor and enjoyment. Awareness, concentration and skill are all very important and you can still enjoy the adrenaline pump and fun but beyond that and its just starts to diminish to fear if you have a brain at all. And of course, track time as well as riding/driving with a passenger is a little different and all that is a moot point if you have little to live for. As an example, take one or more of your children for a ride/drive and see if you drive the same way as when you're alone. If you do you're a moron. Period. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I am going to have to disagree on that one. There are several factors that mitigate motion sickness on the bike versus a cage...not the least of which is the type of movement. You might be strapped in like a mummy in a coffin with a harness and whatnot, but that's not going to stop those car-induced forces from messing with your inner ear. | ||
| Sifo |
Not sure what you do with your head when riding, but most good riders will hold their head level with the horizon.  Leaning your head with the lean of the bike actually increased disorientation for most. Were you in the front or back seat when you've gotten car sick? |
