| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
At this point, I've see no more evidence that he's a 6 earth day creationist than that man evolved from apes. I'm open to viewing the evidence of either though. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Aesquire, sorry for the tardiness of my reply Here are two quick ones http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/ben- carson-evolution-life-evolve-non-life-incredible-f airy-tales http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/how-ben-h ow Hoot is on point as far as his 'rational' post I have a hard time taking someone serious when they say silly things like that. | ||
| Hootowl |
We did not evolve from apes. Both humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor though. Humans did not spontaneously appear. Our genetic makeup tells us that most of us are human Neanderthal hybrids. (Blacks whose ancestors never left Africa are the only exceptions.) So God created us and Neanderthals? I didn't read that in Genesis. | ||
| Sifo |
It's hard to find much in depth information on Carson's beliefs on evolution. Lot's of repeating of the same quips though. I managed to find something, from his own mouth, that gives a bit more information. http://www.discovery.org/multimedia/tag/emory-univ ersity/ Click the recording and listen at the 2:20 mark and you will here Carson state... "I fully accept the concept of natural selection". It would seem that he basic stance is that he rejects the idea that we were created simply by accident. Hardly an extremist viewpoint. It's right in line with most mainstream religious teachings, from many religions. It's fun to pick on the Christians though. They don't cut your head off with a rusty knife. | ||
| Sifo |
Hey Hybrid, any comments on the silliness of "collective salvation"? | ||
| Aesquire |
Evolution..... makes sense from a philosophical view. Survival of the fittest, ( until a society protects it's weak... then it's not the same ) Used to be a lot of different critters, all makes sense. The mechanism? I don't know. I haven't been keeping up with the field, just being "an engineer" as the above psmag article puts it. AND at the lowest level, the guy who knows his limitations and deals with the car/bike crash until the EMT's show up with gear and backboards. I keep up on CPR and keep an eye on the new science of how your genetics affects how you process drugs. In large part because I'm sensitive to rat poison, and the prescription nearly killed me.... and after a week in the hospital I find out I have a family history of sensitivity to warfarin. If you are aware of any new data on HOW we got all those cows from Aurochs, please post it on the Science thread, and we can discuss it there. How we get species differentiation? I dunno. Willing to learn. But just because I don't know how it works doesn't mean it's not real. Gravity works, and damn painfully, but we don't know how it works. We have several, sometimes contradictory theories, and can calculate movement in a gravity field fairly well. Newton works until you get big, small, or fast, then Einstein takes over and then you have to look at newer stuff. For example... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly First cut told us the thermal photons were not enough to account for the wrong speed of the Pioneer probes. Later, someone figured out that the photons reflecting from the antenna plus the photons radiating directly, were enough to make the math come out right. This means, among other things, that gravity seems to, at the ranges so far explored, act the same. If they couldn't figure out what was pushing the probes off course, then maybe gravity doesn't act the same... and then we need new theories to account for reality. So if you asked ME if I "believe" in Evolution, I'd say yes. If the question was "did life just happen?" I'd say maybe, but probably not. "did Man evolve from apes?" I'd say, no, but a common ancestor... and "is the Universe more than 6000 years old?" I'd say, Heck yes, even though I wasn't there for most of it. Change the question, change the answer. It's easy to ask leading questions and make someone sound foolish ( to someone ) Somewhere between "Just happened" and "Divine Plan" seems to be the facts, and we don't know it all, by any stretch. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'm pretty much in line with Reepicheep says above. It seems clear that higher forms of life evolved from lower forms of life, but to think that life generated spontaneously and reached its current level of development by random chance is beyond incredulous. I'm an engineer so I have a significant scientific background. About 20 years ago I spent 6 weeks (8 hours day- 5 days/week) studying stuff related to environmental engineering, and a couple of days were spent just explaining how a cell works. The level of complexity of a single cell in any DNA-based organism almost defies your ability to grasp it. Self-replicating, self-repairing, and all the information necessary to replicate the entire organism contained in every cell in it. And to even start down this path you have to have DNA. The single step from a random chemical to a strand of DNA is for practical purposes an infinite distance. As someone who's spent 40 years repairing mechanical things and trying to design a few that worked correctly, I find that it defies all logic to think that a single cell came into being by random chance, much less a creature as highly evolved as a human being. It's like suggesting if you dropped bricks out of airplanes long enough, eventually you'd wind up with an Empire State Building (but it's actually more incredulous than that!). That doesn't prove the existence of God by any means, but the creation of life by a Supreme Being is certainly at least as plausible as random chance producing us. | ||
| Aesquire |
I often caution people not to use a religious text over a thousand years old as a Science textbook. After all, Greek sheep herders & Germanic nomads & middle eastern nomadic sheep herders probably have a hard time dealing with quantum mechanics. However. In Genesis, The description of the Origin of the Universe, seems to follow current big bang theory thinking, as seen in a vision by a nomadic desert dweller. Darkness, then Big Light. More Big Lights as stars form and More Big Lights as we get generations of Super Novae producing all the elements that go into the planets and critters on them. You don't get "day & night" until you have a spinning planet around a star, but how else would you describe stars igniting, exploding, and dying? Imagine a time traveler ( or Divine Inspiration ) laying the stellar evolution through planetary life on an illiterate dude in the desert in cartoon format, ( or telepathic gestalt, don't ask me which is worse ) and tell me what gets written down a thousand, or a hundred years later? Just a thought. | ||
| Sifo |
Somewhere between "Just happened" and "Divine Plan" seems to be the facts, and we don't know it all, by any stretch. There is an irony in what you just correctly noted. Those who believe in a deity, can deal with everything from complete "divine plan", just up to the threshold of "just happened". I suppose you could also believe in a deity that also just let things happen, but that sounds like a pretty lazy deity. An atheist OTOH, is completely locked into the "just happened" camp. There is zero room for any variation from that. Which one likes to label the other an the extremist? | ||
| Sifo |
The idea that the proteins and amino acids could randomly assemble themselves into simple life, given ample time, sounds like an appealing idea when looking for a scientific explanation. There's a real problem though. If you were to toss these proteins and amino acids into a bucket and let it sit, they don't assemble themselves into anything. Actually they break down very quickly on cosmic scales of time that are supposed to give them ample time to work it out. So what you need is a theory that has fire hose production of these fragile components, that can keep throwing them together constantly, faster than they degrade into useless slime, until they somehow manage to assemble into life. Of course, we still don't understand the spark of life thing. We could theoretically assemble these materials into a cell, but it still wouldn't be alive. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://acidsquirrel.com/post/80732 | ||
| Aesquire |
http://acidsquirrel.com/post/80686 | ||
| Torquehd |
The loss of seeds is de-evolution. It proves exactly what i previously stated. I challenge you to watch the video i posted. If the link doesnt work, search youtube for "100 reasons evolution is stupid kent hovind". The reality is that both evolution and creation are religions. If you're not willing to consider evidence that doesnt support your opinion, then its not science at that point. | ||
| Aesquire |
The loss of seeds is breeding. Human intervention. De-evolution? Perhaps..... but that's also true with modern education. At this rate we'll all be lizards soon. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Evolution is real. God made creatures that change according to their environments. | ||
| Aesquire |
Works for me. So far it looks like the attack on Ben is overblown crap. He must be going up in the polls. You think Hillary or Jeb is behind the attack? | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/18 /watch-latino-immigrant-blasts-city-over-illegal-a liens/ | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423190/donal d-trump-obama-rule-law | ||
| Sifo |
 | ||
| Hootowl |
 | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Really, nothing? LOL oh come on now | ||
| Chauly |
http://tinyurl.com/njeko58 | ||
| Ducbsa |
Some things to consider about former Dem Donald Trump: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/09/a-wo rd-from-the-club-for-growth.php | ||
| Chauly |
Don't just stand there, DO SOMETHING! http://tinyurl.com/njeko58 | ||
| Aesquire |
My response to a Party Loyalty pledge is..." F $#@ you. I won't pledge to support the jerks who I want fired, mother. ........... go pull that nazi crap on your family and leave my country out of it. " Then I get angry. | ||
| Chauly |
Um, yeah, that too... :-) | ||
| Torquehd |
I'd never thought of it that way Aesquire... that's a good assessment. Nazi Germany or the Peoples "Republic" of China. Scary through either lens. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/16/crime-wave-el usive-data-shows-frightening-toll-illegal-immigran t-criminals/ As some of the R candidates seem to be motivated by Large Contributions... ( Bribes ) from Mega Corporations in Silicon Valley and elsewhere to import more foreigners so they can fire expensive Americans, The Clown ( aka The Donald ) is in stark contrast to Jeb, who says foreigners are better than we are, work harder, and are more fertile.... Apparently he is unaware that Poor people can't afford the pill, that many Latin Americans are Catholic, and are forbidden to take the Pill, and that many people are more fertile than Americans or Europeans, because we have birth control, and are selfish enough to use it. ( or compassionate about The Earth, and don't want to Bring New People Into It... aka nihilistic cretins ) We really need a betting pool. I'm guessing The Donald will self destruct, but could be wrong. I'm seriously not going to vote for Jeb. Even if it's Hillary & Jeb, I would have to make a useless and futile protest vote. Probably Blossom from the Powerpuff Girls. A cartoon figure is likely better qualified than most of the herd of losers running. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Even if it's Hillary & Jeb, I would have to make a useless and futile protest vote. Probably Blossom from the Powerpuff Girls. Moronic decisions like that are exactly why we are suffering through two terms of the 0. That being said, I fervently hope that I don't have to vote for Jeb. G | ||
| Aesquire |
Moronic? Certainly. Perhaps a smiley face would show how serious I am about voting for a cartoon. I'm just hoping The Republican Machine breaks under the strain of fighting The Donald and Jeb goes under with it. There are good candidates. ....... well some aren't horrible. |
