| Author | Message | ||
     Pwnzor |
The disrespect comes in when you refer to religion as mythology. It implies that you have some sort of knowledge about things that you have already displayed you don't possess. I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior. In my heart, I know it to be true. I don't believe in a spaghetti monster, but I don't know for a fact that one does not exist. Therefore I don't go around saying that it doesn't exist, or calling it mythology. Do you see the difference? Based on your previous statements, I doubt it. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I did not choose when God would call me. The mere fact of the claim that knowledge or wisdom is restricted to specific mythologies and reserved for certain people I haven't said that. You assume too much. You cast aspersions based on whatever magazine articles you read, but it's more obvious every minute that you have not read the Bible. Nor the Torah. Nor the Quran. Read, open your mind, and close your mouth. Perhaps then, you will reach the enlightenment you seek.} | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Pwnzor, I provided the definition of mythology, I use it for its accuracy- I didn't come up with the definition. You have an issue with the definition of mythology? My whole argument is based in the fact that I don't have knowledge of everything- no one can. That's why I constantly strive to gain new knowledge and wisdom from all possible sources. It's precisely the claim that there's only one "truthful" source of knowledge that, although it seems more obvious to some than others, is a claim that cannot be rightfully claimed by anyone. It is awesome that Jesus Christ is your savior, and I have no doubt that in your heart you hold your belief sacred. And there are many just like you- but you cannot be right for anyone other than you. You can share in your belief, but it will always be your chosen belief. It should not restrict, influence, belittle, control, or effect anyone else's choice, belief, mythology, etc. There is no disrespect in what I'm saying, everything we know is what we choose to accept- I choose to accept that everyone has the right to be free from the choices others make when it comes to personal beliefs. That's the difference I see. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I constantly strive to gain new knowledge and wisdom from all possible sources. Except for anyone or anything you disagree with. See below, the additional definitions of the word Myth, which you seem to think would not be offensive in this context, then realize the error of your ways. a widely held but false belief or idea. "he wants to dispel the myth that sea kayaking is too risky or too strenuous" a misrepresentation of the truth. "attacking the party's irresponsible myths about privatization" a fictitious or imaginary person or thing. an exaggerated or idealized conception of a person or thing. Pick up the Book, and read. Educate yourself. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Pwnzor, are you actually suggesting that if I only study the "right" texts, open my mind and shut my mouth, I would reach enlightenment? This is how I get patronized for being ostensibly sanctimonious in my scrutiny of the unquestionable righteousness of "correct" beliefs. Wow. Why waste time engaging in rational arguments when nothing speaks louder than statements like this. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Your grandiloquence is misplaced here, you are merely engaging in circulus in probando. Pick up any book you like, and read the whole thing. You haven't read the Bible, you have proven that several times already. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Pwnzor, those are not the definitions of myth or mythology I provided- those are the ones you've chosen. I could not come up with a better example of the things I have been talking about concerning the righteousness of certainty and myopic subjectivity in relation to people's chosen mythologies. Folks, it has just been presented to you on a silver platter. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
FWIW- I have a degree in Philosophy, with minors in both English Literature and Religious Studies. A have read a few books. | ||
| Sifo |
Please cite facts. The facts in your most recent statement if false facts are simply how government offices work. Take a look at your drivers license. My has Jesse White's name on it. Jesse White didn't personally serve me at the DMV, but he is the state official that is responsible for issuing my license. It's no different with County clerk. Kim Davis's name goes on the license. Anyone issuing a marriage license in that county does so under her authority. Without the state authorizing the simple variance from this that she asked for, anyone in her office who issues a marriage license does so using her name, either with, or without her consent. If they are using her name on a legal document without her consent, then that document has to be considered to be void in the eyes of the law. It's been a lot of years since I took my class in contract law, but I'm pretty damn sure that's the way it still works. If someone else could issue a marriage license in that county in their own name, this whole thing would be a non-issue. Other facts that you keep misrepresenting are pretty easily available in a wide variety of news articles. I'll be sure to cite specific sources as necessary in the future. I know I often have in the past. NO DOUBT, YOU WILL DO THE SAME FOR YOUR FACTS.  On the mythology issue, you are certainly well educated enough to understand that when you call someone's religion a myth, that there is a negative connotation associated with that. Even by using the definition that you provided, you reduce it to nothing but stories. You may have a degree in religion, but that does not make you knowledgeable in the beliefs of those that follow them. I don't consider myself to be a theologian, but I have studied the Bible both in a Bible Church as well as in College. While both sets of studies are very informative, they are also very different. I think you probably know this though. I do agree with you on this much however. To know that all other religions are false, is a difficult intellectual task at best. I do have a certain understanding of reconciling this that works for me to a degree. Doubt is a constant battle in religious beliefs. At the same time, I have no doubt what so ever that there are numerous false religions at the very least. This would be a very lengthy discussion at best, and I doubt it would lead anywhere useful, so I don't see any point in further derailing the topic at hand. That topic BTW, is Kim Davis, who was held as a political prisoner, for following her personal religious beliefs. That is the tyranny of tolerance. I'm glad you can see the ridiculousness of that phrase. Being ridiculous doesn't make it untrue though. | ||
| Aesquire |
....are you actually suggesting that if I only study the "right" texts, open my mind and shut my mouth, I would reach enlightenment? That is usually the beginning of the process. At least that's what I've been told. Haven't got there yet, although I have had a few transcendent moments. Holding that state eludes me. Ah, but you might ask, "Which texts?". Good question. I suggest a simple survey of the results obtained. Compare personal results and societal results. Daoism, for example, shows up very good on the personal scale, A bit harder to qualify societal results because it's not a majority faith at this time, but has been a State Religion in China, so I'd give it's influence there as mediocre to poor. To be fair, That's in a land that was in eternal war until one king got big enough to subjugate the rest of the Warlords, and the God-King cult has kept the Middle Kingdom in stasis until fairly recently. Great to be an aristocrat, sucks not to be. ( poor ) This didn't change with Mao, it just was a change in aristocracy. Islam, written as a barracks religion to manipulate people to serve the Warlord-Priests scores mediocre to fair on the personal level, if you are male and a born initiate. Everyone else is a second class citizen or a slave, so poor to horrible for the bulk of the people. As a society, it may have flowered 600 years ago, but then got dragged back into the bronze age when the Shaman decided people were having too much freedom and fun. Over all score, Second worst religion still having a current existence. ( Baal worship may have been worse, but it's hard to find a nice temple with a decent baby burning fire, so I'd say it's not a current faith ) Christianity, has it's ups and downs. On the personal level it depends on the century, from a faith to take comfort in while the Aristocracy rapes your new bride, to a source of great strength and charity. on a societal level, it certainly lacks perfection, but so-called Christian nations have the highest rate of technological development, personal freedom, and wealth. This does mean that when there are schisms, the high technology and skill levels of the Citizen-soldier lead to massive destruction and death tolls. We'll skip the Modern socialist/State Worshiping pseudo science Cults, Since they score #1 with a bullet to the back of the head for worst cults ever. Both in Personal ("There are 4 lights") and Societal, ( Walls and land mines to keep the Prisoners...I mean Citizens, from escaping )..... May I suggest Wicca? Or Perhaps Buddhism? | ||
| Aesquire |
Ignored is not quite the correct word. Parts of the Old testament have been overruled by the New, based on the teachings of Christ. Yes, that is more precise, and I admit to ignorance on the fine details. I haven't read the Book in a while. So, Where did Jesus allow Lobster dinner? That comes across as sarcastic, sorry, but what I really mean is.... His teaching, was it a detailed list of do's and Don't's or a generalized injunction not to get hung up on all the Church Rules and treat one another with love? | ||
| Sifo |
So, Where did Jesus allow Lobster dinner? Did you not see the menu for that last supper?  | ||
| Aesquire |
I thought it was sea food! | ||
| Hootowl |
http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/15-11-compa re.html Shrimp tacos for everyone! | ||
| Torquehd |
Regarding "mythologies explaining things that happened before they existed", or whatever you claimed, John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. There was never a point where God didn't exist, and then decided to spark himself to life, and retroactively explain all things. God always was. You can act like religion is separate from marriage. But it doesn't make sense. There are several different definitions of "religion", I think the most accurate one I've found so far, I came across in high school, "an organized system of beliefs". Your "religion" can be Christianity, or Muslim, or Jewish, or Buddhist, or Taoist, or Statism or Humanism or Rastafarianism. Humans believe things, and different humans often belief conflicting things. Mandating that one person must endorse another's beliefs is where the trouble starts. If the majority of America is in favor of allowing gays to marry, then according to our constitution, there does have to be provision for that (unfortunately), but forcing people to professionally endorse that viewpoint is going to create the very problems we are seeing across the US today. Regarding gentiles living under the law, acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. And regarding homosexuality, Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Reading more into Romans 1 gives you a better picture of what "sin" is all about - the worship of creature rather than creator. The elevation of anything higher than God. That's what sin is all about. And this "gay lives matter" movement stems from the humanism movement - humans are our own gods, and we make our own morality. That mentality is greatly exploited by socialist, communist, and proglib politicians. They don't realize what they're doing, but they're the ones selling tickets for the busride to hell that this world (country) is on. Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Defending God's teachings isn't just a matter of "we think gay people are icky". There's a much bigger picture going on. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Amen. I have a degree in Philosophy And yet, you have not read the Bible. You keep using the word mythology in an offensive manner, thereby displaying a lack of respect for those with whom you pretend to hold a civil conversation. You're not capable, I get that. Your degree makes you smarter than anybody else, so go on with your bad self. I'll keep praying for you. Isaiah said it best, chapter 41 11 “All who rage against you will surely be ashamed and disgraced; those who oppose you will be as nothing and perish. 12 Though you search for your enemies, you will not find them. Those who wage war against you will be as nothing at all. (Message edited by pwnzor on September 12, 2015) | ||
| Ourdee |
I got a letter from the general superintendent of the United Pentecostal Church International. I have taken the liberty to change the wording to reflect my personal view. For example where he used the word we, I used the word I. "As a Bible-believing Christian I affirm the following: (1) Same-sex marriage is contrary to God's plan for the human race as taught by both the Bible and nature. (See the UPCI's statement at upci.org, which USA Today quoted at usat.ly/1EVzcbJ.) (2) The Supreme Court erred in finding such a right in the US Constitution, contrary to both history and law. (3) Freedom of religion is protected under the US Constitution, and therefore no one should be jailed for a conscientious refusal to endorse same-sex marriage. Our nation has a long history of providing reasonable accommodations for people of faith in situations such as this. (4) My stand has nothing to do with bigotry against homosexuals, hatred, or opposing human rights. We should uphold the civil rights of everyone, including those who choose lifestyles contrary to God's Word. However, this does not mean individuals should have a right to redefine basic social institutions such as marriage to mean something they are not. There are potentially many situations in which Christians will face questions of conscience with regard to their employment. In these cases they seek to balance respect for governmental authority, employers' authority, and individual free will with their own conscience. As long as they are not committing sin, they have liberty to make appropriate decisions and to support the decisions of others. They should not ridicule or condemn those who make different decisions, however. (See Romans 14.) The church as a whole must respect the counsel of local pastors and the conscientious choices of individual members, while standing for religious liberty and moral values in society. Of course, if there is a direct conflict between God's law and human law, we should obey God rather than humans (Acts 5:29)." And this as my parting shot: Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. | ||
| S2t_bama |
"Your (Philosophy) degree makes you smarter than anybody else..." That's a myth. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
This lady blows. | ||
| Aesquire |
Personal experience? TMI dude. TMI. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
ha! Well played Aes, well played. My opinion - she's a government official and her taking her religious stance, and not letting holding people up from getting married is wrong. I dont care about her past, what I care about is an oppressive government (official) refusing to serve the public. The fact that ANYONE can stand behind her actions and still believe in our Constitution/BoR is astonishing. Laws changed, bummer for her, time for a new position if she can not complete her job. | ||
| Pwnzor |
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| Aesquire |
The fact that ANYONE can stand behind her actions and still believe in our Constitution/BoR is astonishing. As I said from the beginning, I do not agree with the lady. I don't stand up for her, as a person, nor do I care a dime for learning about her personal life and history. My Observation, repeatedly proven on this thread, is that a non-violent act of civil disobedience is viewed by almost everyone through the colored lenses of their attitude about the subject of said disobedience. And many seem to be completely blind that they are doing so. And.... This is a Subject, a CAUSE, that is not going to go away. And it has MANY angles to it, historically, politically, and even Foreign Relations get involved. politicians are going to, and have lied through their teeth and condemn, complain about, attack people, based entirely on their poll numbers on their anticipated demographic voting blocs..... Senator J is going to praise the Supreme Court and attend Lesbian Biker Rallies to try and woo a few dozen votes in the next election, and for all we know, goes home and bitches up a storm about how gay people make him sick. Senator K is going to try and stand next to the County Clerk of Neverheardofit KY, in the hopes the Christian Evangelical vote in his district can be swayed to keep him in power. He may then go home to his lover Fernando, squeeze into his leather and chains, and bitch he can't do the Gay Biker Bar scene anymore and stay in office in the Bible Belt. Ayatollahs and Mullahs all over the planet are pointing to gay marriage as a sign of Western decadence, and our satanic nature. Vladimir Putin is laughing his head off, since he knows that the KGB supposedly began a program 80 years ago to turn the West gay so we would be decadent, and not reproduce.... or at least he's read the transcript of a Congressman, in 1963, listing, and very accurately, the evil things the KGB was doing to destroy American Civilization. ( a quick look finds this link, I make no claims for accuracy ) http://www.dcclothesline.com/2013/02/01/we-were-wa rned-in-1963-has-communist-ideology-overtaken-amer ica/ Now, many of the above listed sabatoges of Western Civilization were, in fact, KGB programs. The Green Party in Europe, countless little acts of espionage, All in all, the Soviets are considered to have won the Spy War of the Cold War. I'll leave it to a different thread to try and tell the difference between real deal Soviet & Socialist actions and Conspiracy Theories that are pure fantasy. And it goes back decades. J. Edger Hoover, who allegedly like slinky black dresses, was at odds with the OSS, since he considered spying to be an FBI job. When the OSS became the CIA, he wasn't pleased at all. Internal Government snooping and Secret Files used for blackmail and persecution didn't start with the Clintons, you know. There'a a reason I keep saying I don't mind a Gay politician, but I do one in the Closet, since that opens them to blackmail. It's way freaking past time that crap stopped. Also... There obviously is an activist organization that is pushing the Gay Lifestyle, although I suspect most of that is to sell clothes at the Gap. This naturally offends the vast majority of Het folk, who consider themselves normal, ( they are.... sorta. There's a lot going on in Suburbia they try and keep from the Children ) and are a little repressed about sex, and are shocked, or annoyed by the Flamboyancy of the Peacock Gay Male Stereotype. Consider the history of jokes allowed to be told about gays on tv. ( and yes, it's a freaking Cliche' but there's a lot of gay folk in Theatre. Really ) So it's all more involved than the KY Clerk. | ||
| Torquehd |
what I care about is an oppressive government (official) refusing to serve the public What about law enforcement officers who refuse to enforce stricter gun control laws because they believe it's a violation of the second amendment? Different viewpoint on that? I haven't yet found any federal law prohibiting the "right to refuse service" based upon sexual orientation, so far the only ones i've seen have been state laws. The solution to this problem is probably - if your local auto parts store refuses to carry kanuter valves, and you want a kanuter valve, go to a different auto parts store. Don't force them to sell something they don't believe in. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
The solution to this problem is probably - if your local auto parts store refuses to carry kanuter valves, and you want a kanuter valve, go to a different auto parts store. Don't force them to sell something they don't believe in." fail. This isnt a private business, this is a government agency. MUCH DIFFERENT. | ||
| Aesquire |
So..... you WANT my local cops arresting a few million New Yorkers who didn't register their "assault weapons" which include stock magazines for 1942 m-1carbines? You WANT police in Texas putting people in jail for possessing a piece of plastic that looks like a penis? You WANT people in Georgia jailed for getting a Lewinsky in the privacy of their homes? Married, heterosexual, couples? Be careful what you wish for. | ||
| Torquehd |
And a government agency has no business endorsing religion. If my religion is that I don't believe in gay marriage, and your religion is that you do believe in gay marriage, what is the answer? Maybe I was wrong - maybe SCOTUS has no business in marriage whatsoever. Yes, I believe that's the answer. If you want to marry another dude, go do it in your own backyard. Don't force me to comply with your religious beliefs, and I won't force you to comply with mine. (Maybe Islam should learn something from that statement as well). | ||
| Sifo |
Maybe I was wrong - maybe SCOTUS has no business in marriage whatsoever. Yes, I believe that's the answer. If you want to marry another dude, go do it in your own backyard. Don't force me to comply with your religious beliefs, and I won't force you to comply with mine. (Maybe Islam should learn something from that statement as well). Helping a single person see the light makes a conversation like this entirely worthwhile! What ever happened to liberals who used to tell government to get out of the bedroom? | ||
| Aesquire |
Morning news says the Clerk will be back to work later this week. Court order says the minions will issue marriage licenses. Lawyer for Clerk says no marriage licenses will be issued. Shakespeare was right. First we kill all the lawyers.  | ||
| Aesquire |
I keep waiting to get back to bakers. |
