| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Well how many instances of her promoting this view do I have to find? I've provided the first instance, words from her own mouth. I've also provided a second instance, in her support for PP, who's founder is infamous for having the exact same view point. I've also pointed out the most important part. The decades of actual real world disparate impact against a minority race, that she continues to support. This doesn't even get into the questionable (and I use that term very loosely, there's little question about it) ethics of killing the unborn. Do the same to a Bald Eagle or a tortoise, and you get charged with a federal crime. If it's a human though, we cut it up and sell the parts to the highest bidder. Do you really want to continue this conversation? | ||
| Sifo |
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| Sifo |
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| Sifo |
State Department blames classified info for Clinton email delays So Hillary was keeping classified emails on her personal server? Well clearly she lied about that one when she said otherwise, but that just goes to her credibility. This is exactly what they just successfully prosecuted General Petraeus for, the improper storage of classified documents. Yes, I know she hasn't been convicted at this point, and probably never will be by this administration, but either the State Department is lying now about why they aren't complying with a judges order to release the emails, or Hillary is guilty of Federal crimes. There is no third option available. | ||
| Tod662 |
3rd option its a witch hunt. how many of your 16-18 clowns would still be in the race if they were scrutinized near as closely?? http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/16/politics/hillary-cli nton-jeb-bush-email-2016/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/what-if- dick-cheney-not-h_b_6900714.html Yeah and I can see why the right is scared of an old white guy, he's gonna shake shit up if he dont get made dead first. Yeah the "leftist" media is going to make a guy with the best civil rights record around look like he is out of touch- look at his reality. | ||
| Sifo |
Tod, your "third option" would change nothing about the two possibilities I posed. You simply added some other criteria which gives 4 possibilities. 1) Witch hunt + State Dept lying + Hillary might be not guilty 2) Witch hunt + State Dept not lying + Hillary guilty 3) Not witch hunt + State Dept lying + Hillary might be not guilty 4) Not witch hunt + State Dept not lying + Hillary guilty Time to step up your game and deal with reality. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"Yeah and I can see why the right is scared of an old white guy, he's gonna shake shit up if he dont get made dead first. " Trump? lol He's def shaking stuff up for the Rs | ||
| Aesquire |
When a candidate brags about her own crime one can either say she is a criminal, or insane. The penalty for her ADMITTED crimes includes being ineligible for the job she's trying for. So.....? I'm inclined to believe both. Criminal and knows her massive wealth makes her immune to punishment. If You did the same you'd be in jail. Not her. | ||
| Tod662 |
Guest Editorial: Why Saturday's Bernie Sanders Rally Left Me Feeling Heartbroken by Pramila Jayapal • Aug 9, 2015 at 12:59 pm Washington State Senator Pramila Jayapal was at the Bernie Sanders rally that got interrupted yesterday in Seattle. She offered some thoughts about the event on Facebook, and we're reprinting them in full here. Many people have been e-mailing and asking me how I am thinking about what happened yesterday at the event on social security and medicare, when some protesters identifying as Black Lives Matter got up on stage to challenge Bernie Sanders on race and racism, and ended up shutting down the event so Bernie could not speak. I'm struggling but in the spirit of community, here's what comes to mind. First, I want to give a huge shout out to the amazing leaders who worked for months and months to organize the event: Robby Stern and PSARA, Social Security Works Washington, Washington CAN, Burke Stansbury, and so many more. This was a huge event to put together, and their determination is what ultimately got Senator Bernie Sanders to Seattle in the first place. The rally was also packed—maybe around 5,000 people—and people stood in the hot sun for a couple of hours, engaging actively and cheering on the incredibly wide range of speakers the coalition had put together. I was proud to be the speaker just before Bernie was supposed to speak. Watching what unfolded made me heartbroken. I have so many somewhat jumbled thoughts—here are just a few. 1) This is one small result of centuries of racism. As a country, we still have not recognized or acknowledged what we have wrought and continue to inflict on black people. The bigger results are how black kids as young as two are being disciplined differently in their daycares and pre-k classes. That black people are routinely denied jobs that white people get with the same set of experiences and skills. That black people—women and men—continue to die at the hands of police, in domestic violence, on the streets. That black mothers must tell their children as young as seven or eight that they have to be careful about what pants or hoodies they wear or to not assert their rights if stopped. That this country supports an institutionalized form of racism called the criminal justice system that makes profit—hard, cold cash—on jailing black and brown people. I could go on and on. But the continued lack of calling out that indelible stain of racism everywhere we go, of refusing to see that racism exists and implicit bias exists in all of us, of refusing to give reparations for slavery, of refusing to have our version of a truth and reconciliation process—that is what pushes everything underneath and makes it seem like the fault is of black people not of the country, institutions, and people that wrought the violence. That is the anger and rage that we saw erupt yesterday on stage. But it's not the problem, it's a symptom of the disease of unacknowledged and un-acted upon racism. 2) When the disruption first happened, the crowd (mostly white) turned ugly. It's hard to say what is the chicken or the egg. Some of it may have stemmed from the protesters calling the whole crowd racist. Some of it was from annoyance at the disruption. Some was probably from deep disagreement about tactics in a movement to get attention to an issue. Some was from deep disappointment because people had stood in the hot sun for hours to hear Bernie. Whatever it was, the conversations that ensued—the name calling of white and black people against each other, including some people calling blacks who didn't agree with what was happening racist—were so painful. I was in the speakers tent and Pam Keeley alerted me to two young black girls (Gina Owens grandchildren) who were weeping, they were so scared, so I went over to comfort them. We stood with our arms around each other, and in some small way, that gave me the greatest sense of doing something tangible—to be with people I love, assuring them they would be safe, and that none of us would ever let harm come to them. After the protests, several people came up and wanted to talk. Many were furious—some white people said they no longer support BLM. Others said they do support it but this erodes their support. Some said outrageous things from anger. Others seemed befuddled. Some understood. People will have to work this out for themselves, but as we all do, I hope that we can open our hearts to all of the pain and suffering in the world and be as compassionate and kind as possible to each other so that we can also heal as we learn and listen. 3) I don't have any answer on what is "right." Bernie Sanders was a guest in our city—invited by a multiracial coalition to speak on some very important issues. Enormous amounts of work went into yesterday's event and it was so important to talk about preserving and expanding Social Security and Medicare. None of the papers today are covering those issues, because they were eclipsed by what happened. That's not necessarily "wrong"—it just is what it is. But here's what I would have loved to have happen: after the protesters were able to get the mic and say their piece and have the 4.5 minutes of silence for all the black people who have been killed, I would have loved for Bernie Sanders to take the mic and respond. And also to speak about Social Security and Medicare too. Here's what I would love even more: for the Sanders campaign and BLM nationally to sit down and talk about an agenda on racial justice that he can use his presidential platform to help move. Imagine rolling out that agenda and inviting black people to talk about it on stage with him. Now that excites me. 4) I had not yet endorsed Bernie Sanders (and still have not), although I was incredibly excited about his candidacy. One of the primary reasons is because I wanted to know more about his stands on race and racism. I asked the campaign for some time to discuss this with him, and he did very graciously make some time for me to have a short conversation with him. What I got from the conversation is that he knows he comes from a very white state and he's a 70+ year old white guy. He knows that running for President, he must now speak to voters who are very different from those in his state. He IS deeply committed to equality on all counts but his primary lens for all of his work—and a HUGELY necessary and not-often-enough-acknowledged lens—is economic. He is a truth-teller on economic issues in a way that no other candidate is. He gets the connection between large corporations, elections, and income inequality. He does understand the problems of the criminal justice system and I fully believe he will work to change that if elected. But the deeper comfort with talking about race and racism is harder. As Mayor of Burlington, early on, he endorsed Jesse Jackson for President and Jackson went on to win the state. He was active in the civil rights movement. But more than that, he is someone who has fought for so many of the threads that connect our movements. He has to learn to talk about racism in that way, to connect his ideas on education, economics, incarceration, and race. As I said when I had the honor of introducing him at his evening rally, he is in a unique position to do so. And we are in a unique moment where we crave that leadership in a presidential campaign. I told him in my conversation with him that he needed to talk head on about institutional racism—he said he agreed and he would do it in the evening. And he did—to an enormous, cheering crowd of 15,000 people. That's a huge platform for our messages. There's more to do and learn for sure, but is any one of us perfect? The most we can ask for is for someone who listens and cares deeply, who is trustworthy, and who will do what he says. I know I learned a lot in my campaign and I will continue to grow from listening to people's voices. I believe Bernie Sanders is growing too—and I hope (and yes, believe) that we'll look back on this and see his emergence as a leader who brings our movements for economic, racial and social justice together in a powerful way. 5) Here's what I am trying to deeply think about: How do we call people in even as we call them out? As a brown woman, the only woman of color in the state senate, often the only person of color in many rooms, I am constantly thinking about this. To build a movement, we have to be smarter than those who are trying to divide us. We have to take our anger and rage and channel it into building, growing, loving, holding each other up. We need our outlets too, our places of safety where we can say what we think without worrying about how it's going to land, where we can call out even our white loved ones, friends, allies for what they are not doing. But in the end, if we want to win for ALL of us on racial, economic, and social justice issues, we need multiple sets of tactics, working together. Some are disruptive tactics. Some are loving tactics. Some are truth-telling tactics. Some can only be taken on by white people. Some can only be taken on by people of color. Sometimes we need someone from the other strand to step in and hold us up. Other times, we have to step out and hold them up. Each of us has a different role to play but we all have to hold the collective space for movement building together. That's what I hope we all keep in mind and work on together. It's the only way we move forward. Pramila Jayapal is a state senator from Washington's 37th District. | ||
| Hootowl |
What a load of crap. What happened was a couple of people with entitlement derangement syndrome took over a mic, and the people organizing the event were too terrified to take it back. I'd have had her arrested. Her free speech rights don't trump my right to hear a politician speak at a gathering specifically orchestrated for that purpose. Oh yeah, and he's a spineless twerp for tucking tail. That's JUST what we need in a president charged with interacting with world leaders. At least Hillary has some balls. | ||
| Tod662 |
I somewhat agree (the BLM people were way out of line) but I would rather have a president with some patience and tact, not a hothead like (enter about any repub). Spineless twerp RIGGGHT, thats why he is standing up to ALLL the moneyed interests right now (and for his whole career). Bernie clanks when he walks. https://youtu.be/nsDYAtKlsT4 Though it was not his event, he was just a guest speaker. I wonder what would of happened if it was his rally? Guess what, one of the 2 loud mouths is/was a Palin supporter! No wonder she acted so ignorant. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhum anist/2015/08/blm-activist-who-shut-down-sanders-i s-radical-christian-sarah-palin-supporter/ | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm sorely tempted to edit all of Todd's future posts and replace everything he has to say with #BLM. Because it is *so* important, nothing he has to say could possibly matter in comparison. But I won't. Because that would be rude, disrespectful, and selfish. I like the fact that Ms Jayapal is really thinking about this and recognizing the problems these kinds of "protests" create. But some of her rationalizations ring a little hollow. Last Saturday, I had my first "Mr. Reepicheep, this is officer Soandso" 4 am phone call. Apparently, a kid who will remain nameless thought it would be a fun adventure for him and his buddy to sneak out of the house after I went to bed to go meet some girls in the park... at 3 am. I talked to both kid and cop afterwards to see how it went down. When the cop was pulling up, the girls said "run". My kid said "I'm not going to get shot over something stupid like being in the park after curfew". Then he sat there, with his hands in plain sight, and answered all the cops questions respectfully and honestly. He didn't do this because he is a black kid or a white kid or because of any kind of social justice inequality, he did it because we taught him a cop is doing a hard and dangerous job, and people being stupid around him (like running over something minor) makes it harder and more dangerous for everyone, cop and citizen alike. He is grounded for a month, and I am proud of him for being so smart when he was being stupid. | ||
| Hootowl |
"I would rather have a president with some patience and tact" Yeah, there is that. But you could insert just about any politician, not just Rs. | ||
| Sifo |
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| Sifo |
Credit to Jeb for what he did with Hillary's logo. Spot on.  | ||
| Xbimmer |
Finally. http://http://www.bing.com/search?q=hillary+clinto n's+server&src=IE-TopResult&FORM=IETR02&conversati onid= I'm concerned that the Clintons have enough money and influence to have had some very sharp people working on her server all this time she's been lying and stalling. Well maybe she wasn't lying after all since she never said she didn't have top secret emails in there... | ||
| Hootowl |
If they've done a DOD wipe of free space, it's unlikely anything will be recovered. | ||
| Sifo |
At best, she has been obstructing the investigation into her illegally run server. It can get far worse for her, starting with destruction of evidence. This is far worse than what Nixon was involved in, and he was rightly drummed out of office. To even consider putting Hillary into that same office right now is insanity. Who does that leave for the Dems? The self described socialist? Double barrel Joe? Right now we have an election where one side has 17 candidates, many who could be viable if they could get some attention vs. the other side where the best chance the candidates is to avoid attention. May you live in interesting times... | ||
| Sifo |
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| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422417/hilla ry-emails-seized-above-law | ||
| Reepicheep |
The media is, as usual, doing this wrong in so many ways. The left isn't reporting it at all (which is criminal), and the right is getting many facts wrong (which is frustrating). The distinction between information on her server that was classified later and information on her server that was classified when it was sent is huge. And the news is struggling to understand and report the issues around that. The former is staggeringly irresponsible and unprofessional, the latter is flat out criminal and treasonous. The real issue is the discovery and data ownership question. This data was accumulated while Hillary Clinton was operating as an agent of the United States Government, and operating under United States Government authority. Her communications were ***not*** her property, they were and are property of the US Government, and subject to US Government restrictions. And operational security of government servers is hard enough, running your own on your own is absolutely irresponsible. And it's known to be irresponsible. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/china-read-ema ils-top-us-officials-n406046 Which is why it's not allowed, and wasn't allowed when she was doing it. That starts the death spiral. Aside from the obvious security implications (enough of a disaster alone), it inevitably fails in many other required things that aren't being done. So now she has data that isn't hers, and she fails to properly secure it, and also fails to do a bunch of other things that are legal obligations around that data (data retention, data disposal, freedom of information requests (a legal obligation), discovery requests, etc). She deleted the stuff she says wasn't relevant to any pending litigation. That's not how it works. All data must be retained, and well ordered discovery exercises are done under supervision of the court to decide what is material or not. You don't get to decide what you turn over, the court decides what is evidence. She didn't, apparently, do that. She just deleted stuff she decided wasn't relevant. That's illegal, and when it is done, the court is supposed to assume the worst about the data that was deleted. That's why you retain it, no matter how bad it looks, it can't be worse then the assumptions made against you if you delete it. That part is said and done, and the fact that she hasn't already been held in contempt of court makes me think the rule of law as applied to Democrats (and probably some Republicans as well, though it's harder without a complicit media) is now broken. The injustice of this bothers me some. But the outcome of a breakdown of rule of law is what genuinely terrifies me. It ***always*** ends in massive bloodshed, and a lot of dead innocents. I can live with a left of center "socialist light" government, even if I don't like or agree with it. I can't live without the rule of law. | ||
| Sifo |
It's a shame they don't seize servers from the political elite the way they do from the common folk. I knew someone who had a server seized by the FBI. He also needed to have his front door replaced. This was back in the days before the internet when people ran bulletin boards where you could upload/download stuff, including software. He had licensed software on his board that the FBI was able to download. The FBI didn't care that it was the FBI that uploaded the software to the server in the first place. The only thing this person was really guilty of was not removing the software from his server fast enough. They actually prosecuted him for distribution of copy righted materials. Hillary is being treated with kid gloves. | ||
| Sifo |
But the outcome of a breakdown of rule of law is what genuinely terrifies me. There is no rule of law anymore. There are countless examples of this. As people wake up to this fact, can you really expect them to obey laws? Next thing you know you will see leaders giving people space to destroy property. Oh wait, that one already has happened. Look at Ferguson this past week. You have well armed "Oath Keepers" mixed with rioters who are blocking free travel and chanting "we are ready for war". One small misstep is going to set off a powder keg. | ||
| Aesquire |
Some people objected when I called Hillary a criminal when this whole e-mail thing started. I stand by it. The law plainly states that it is illegal to destroy any documents that MAY BE Subpoenaed in an investigation. That means that by declaring that she had erased ANY e-mails, she confessed to violating the law. The law specifically states that violating the law means you are not eligible for public office. Yes, she has not been convicted. No, she probably never will be, nor will she be on any of the other crimes she is suspected of, So? Bill never was convicted of Rape, or Sexual Exploitation of a lower ranking co-worker, and the latter, at least, he has confessed to. ( only in the face of physical evidence, and even then insists that words like "is" are not applicable to Him. ) Laws are for the Common folk. Not the Aristocracy, like multimillionaires Barry & Bill & Hillary. IIRC this attitude led to the use of the Guillotine in France. | ||
| Sifo |
So Hillary gave these emails to her lawyer. What is the security clearance of her lawyer? | ||
| Sifo |
Interesting... Hillary Clinton on the Sanctity of Protecting Classified Information | ||
| Sifo |
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| Sifo |
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| Tod662 |
heres a look at what a real candidates platform looks like. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/opinions/parini-bern ie-sanders/index.html Why is it acceptable for the media to tell us who can and can't have a chance to win at this point? And along with that, you guys really think there is a leftist tilt to the media. Then why are they still trying to ignore the guy who has the biggest rallies EVERYWHERE? | ||
| Aesquire |
Then why are they still trying to ignore the guy who has the biggest rallies EVERYWHERE? Because Hillary Clinton Will Be The Nominee. It has been decided. By Rich Leftist Authoritarian monsters. Like Hillary. Bernie doesn't have a chance. Ask CNN. They'll just tell you Hillary Will Be The Nominee. Ask ABC, PBS, etc. Same answer. See parody above. |
