| Author | Message | ||
     Davegess |
Hero is quite simply the villain in this. If they had met their obligations the whole Chapter 128 filing would not have happened. Would things have been all flowers and butterfly's? No we still would have faced huge hurdles but many of the issues, including some of the marketing issues, would have been solvable IF the promised money had been received and bills had been paid. | ||
| Aesquire |
While I have several Indian friends, India corporations, like China corporations, have not had an enviable record of fair dealing with foreign companies.... Like anything else, some good guys, some bad. The bigger a company the less humanity. It takes drive and ego to start a company. To move up in a bureaucracy takes ruthless too. So no surprise that the leaders of a big company don't care about others. Look at Ford and the decision to pay off suits from the families of the dead instead of fixing a problem. GM too. I don't know about Hero, but initial impression is they decided to go dark side. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I was trying to see if I could find anything on line indicating restrictions on who can bid in a Chapter 128 filing, and I ran across this document: http://www.cfa-llc.com/downloads/Chapter_128_Recei verships_Corporate_Financial_Advisors_LLC.pdf It's a basically an advertisement for a guy who serves as a receiver, but it gives details of the steps involved in a Chapter 128 filing and gives one example of a company that went through the process, was kept open, and the original employees guaranteed jobs for at least one year. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Another article about the sale at Autoevolution- bring back the Uly! (MKII) http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ebr-is-up-for-sa le-time-to-build-a-nice-sport-adventure-bike-97578 .html | ||
| Buelliedan |
well unfortunately all of the employees at EBR were let go and most of them have found other jobs. They did not wait around to see what happens I can assure you. So even if EBR comes back they are going to have a serious issue with training new employees and finding qualified engineers and such to get things back up and running. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Dan- I'm sure it will be a huge effort for them to re-start production. I imagine their ability to hire new people and especially to entice old employees to come back will be highly contingent on who buys the company. The right buyer with a clear long-range plan for the brand would attract a lot of people. OTOH a lesser owner will have a tough row to how. | ||
| Buelliedan |
And I am sorry but even as much as I love Buells I am just not buying that this is all because of Hero. There are always 2 sides to every story especially where business is concerned. I do believe that Hero was really pissed that EBR engineering did not do what they were supposed to do in getting Hero bikes legal to sell in the US this year. When that did not happen they decided to withold the money until they got approval. None of us know what the contract stated as far as what they would owe if the engineers did not meet certain criteria. For all we know they had every right to not pay until the Hero bikes were legal to be sold in the US. If that was the case is Hero still at fault or is EBR for not fulfilling the contract? Like I said, none of us know what really happened and I doubt we ever will. So to just say hero is the villain seems unwarranted IMO unless you really know what happened. | ||
| Snacktoast |
Buelliedan, unfortunetly your assumptions about Hero with regard to bikes for the US market is entirely incorrect. That is all that I am willing to say about it. Also, you realize Dave Gess worked for EBR up until the closure, right? Plenty of credibility there. | ||
| Buelliedan |
The only people who probably really know what truly happened are Erik and the person in charge of EBR for Hero. From what I have heard from several EBR employess nobody knew anything was wrong until just before lunch on April 15th at which time they were all called into the lunch room and told they no longer had jobs. So much as I respect Dave I doubt even he knows all the details as to why EBR failed. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Dan, I can understand your frustration and anger but in the end those who were screwed over just get the shaft and nothing more. Life goes on with or without you. New relationships are formed and old relationships that don't want to start anew are cast off like an old pair of shoes. It's like when a couple splits up or gets divorced and one of the two can't move on forever living in the past, bitter and angry, while the other has moved upward and onward. Life isn't fair and more often than not there is no justice. HOWEVER, no one has any idea how a newly revamped EBR might attempt to repair it's image with dealers and customers, if at all. When you boil it down your frustration is a financial one. There might be incentives or financial compensation given to the old dealers to keep them on board. Wait until the dust settles. | ||
| Buelliedan |
I agree with you Ferris. I actually was not hurt anywhere near as bad as many of the other EBR dealers. The ones who had many EBRs on GE financial floorplans stand to lose thousands if not 10s of thousands of dolllars. Those dealers will be tough to win back. I am still willing to sell EBRs if they come back and can show me they have a real plan for marketing and such. I'm sorry but EBRs running WSBK while dealers did not even have brochures available to give out to potential buyers was ridiculous!! Like I said time will tell. Things will definately need to be run different if EBR does come back and expects better results. | ||
| 86129squids |
All I can think of is- Court and Dave are gonna have a helluva sequel to write someday!  I sure hope things work out for the chapter 128 session... and Dan, I sure hope the day comes ASAP when you can be at peace with things. Might not be anytime soon, but... keep your chin up. Ferris has a couple of good points. | ||
| Buelliedan |
I am quite at peace with things but i am also being realistic as to the future. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
I would seriously doubt any buyer will maintain the EBR nameplate. It's tainted because of this whole ordeal. If a larger player picks up the pieces, it would make much more sense to bring them in under their nameplate (i.e. Polaris 1190SX) | ||
| Steveford |
Kind of off topic but is that figure of a quarter of a million dollars to pick up Indian accurate? I can't say that I've ever seen an Indian on the street nor do I know of anyone who has one. I did see some on display at Ephrata and was surprised at how small the Scout was; I was expecting some gigantic load. As for HarLee buying EBR, I certainly hope not. We all remember how much the Buells were loved at the dealerships. Do you really want to repeat the Red Headed Stepchild "Jap Crap" bit? | ||
| Airbozo |
I must say that years ago when Buell was still in the dealership, the 2 dealers I visited were committed to selling them. In fact the now defunct Santa Cruz HD devoted about 1/3 of the floor space to them and had a couple of dedicated sales people just for the Buell's. If it weren't for those 2 dealers I wouldn't have even known about Buell. I only saw one print ad (one of the motorcycle rags) and never saw any commercials. Buell seemed to be the motorcycle industry's best kept secret at the time. By the time I could actually afford another bike, they were gone (plus it took some time to convince the SO I was safer riding a Buell than riding my Sportster like it was one). | ||
| Aaron_thomas |
As much as I hate to say to much of the motorcycle world Buell/EBR is pretty much dead and gone. The fiasco in 09 about the time they were gaining some serious recognition. Then this even bigger fiasco will lead the public that actually knows the brand to be VERY leery. I have an 1125r because the price I paid for it I can run it into the ground and when parts are no longer there. Move on. I one hundred percent understand how Buellidan feels that as a loyal flag waver for YEARS and dealer he got stuck while EBR was out spending mega dollars racing and trying to make a name instead of promoting the brand to riders. To the poster who stated that life will move on without Buelliedan. I thought that was pretty crappy. I hope you are not actually connected with Mr. Buell in any way and if you are and you genuinely feel that way. Good luck with that attitude with Bulliedan and the other former dealers ever coming back. EBR if it does come back it will be back to being what it was in the early days, a racers passion and boutique brand with a small following. speculate all you want. I don't think it will ever work again like it once did. The ONLY possible way would be to owned operated and controlled by a big name with their backing and guarantees. Not some off shore company that most of us have never heard of (Message edited by aaron thomas on July 07, 2015) (Message edited by aaron thomas on July 07, 2015) | ||
| Tod662 |
I refuse to believe the chubby chick has performed her solo yet. Having read about the creative bikes that were designed for Villain, I suspect that there are some fantastic EBR concepts that may yet see the light of day. (though will credit ever be given, that may be another story) A year ago there was at least 1 Honda dirt bike being "tested for comparisons" at 2799 Buell drive. And I have a sneaky suspicion that there will be at least 3 or 4 bidders involved in a sale that will easily cover the amount owed. But that's all idle speculation, time may tell. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Once again I would like to see Harley buy them because of their dealer network. Harley has a real need for a sports motorcycle and with their new CEO a former Buell guy, things would certainly be much better. They also own the rights to all the Buell technology even though they might want to change the name to Harley Davidson. I think the EBR name as we know it is going to disappear along with their racing program. Just my thoughts. I guess we'll find out soon enough | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I read the new CEO is looking for products to draw a younger crowd to Harley. Hmmmm, where have I heard this before? | ||
| Glitch |
Once again I would like to see Harley buy them because of their dealer network. Harley already owns Buell, why would they buy EBR? If they wanted to they could just start up Buell again. Smart move in my mind...but then again... | ||
| Tpoppa |
Agree with Glitch. I doubt HD would see EBR as that different from the Buell IP they already own. | ||
| Court |
>>>>the Buell IP they already own. Be mindful that they surrendered, legally, all those IP rights a couple years ago. They let them go into voluntary lapse by non-renewal thus placing most of the Buell associated trademarks and logos in the public domain. I have previously posted a scan of all the legal documents surrounding the trademark. What EBR has, that Buell didn't, was a plethora of great products that are at the 95% market ready condition. I can see two distinct groups who would be interested in the various lots. | ||
| Tpoppa |
I am very curious to see what happens. After all the dust settles, I would like to see an American produced motorcycle that isn't a cruiser. The nameplate isn't a significant concern for me. | ||
| Jaimec |
 What HE said. | ||
| Ffbuell1 |
Several member's here have stated they would like to see Harley buy E.B.R. Yes they do have a great dealer network but I truly do not think it will happen. Most H.D. dealers (even the ones who sold Buells) have no clue about any thing other than the so called Harley life style experience, (I personally can't stand going into my local H.D. dealer for parts for my XB or my XR 1200X Harley because they don't have any thing in stock . And Harley does not care at all about any thing other than cruisers and baggers, They are not at all interested in racing (their former C.E.O. said that) True they are supposedly going after different age and racial demographics but they are trying to lure them to buy the same old antiques they sell versus making any thing that would attract them, I would like to be proven wrong about HD buying them but I think it would probably be B.R.P. or Polaris industries. | ||
| Buelliedan |
I was quoted the $250,000 buy in figure to be an Indian dealer from a well known Victory/EBR dealer in MO. I was shocked when he told me that especially since he already was a Victory dealer! He said something like $100,000 was paid direct to Polaris just to be the dealer and the other $150,000 was for them to come in a put up the required Indian displays in the store. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Be mindful that they surrendered, legally, all those IP rights a couple years ago. They let them go into voluntary lapse by non-renewal thus placing most of the Buell associated trademarks and logos in the public domain. Didn't see that, but that seems to demonstrate HD's lack of interest in producing sporty motorcycles. | ||
| Firstbuell |
that Victory/Indian buy-in is CRAZY money !! --------------------------------------------- separately, I truly love the name "Villain" in leiu of "Hero" sad, but true - & funny | ||
| Hughlysses |
Didn't see that, but that seems to demonstrate HD's lack of interest in producing sporty motorcycles. Of course that was under the leadership of Keith "I know all about building automation and jack s**t about motorcycles" Wandell. The new guy seems like MUCH more of an actual motorcycle enthusiast. |
