| Author | Message | ||
     Tod662 |
Let's start with a simple question. Aesquire, how many congressional investigations have there been into the cause of Benghazi? (Message edited by tod662 on July 02, 2015) | ||
| Oldog |
Two AFAIK | ||
| Hootowl |
Perhaps if the investigators were provided access to the material they've requested, the investigations could be concluded. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Tod, lets start with a simpler question. What was the cause of Benghazi? | ||
| Hootowl |
As far as I can tell, the islamists didn't like the gun running op being carried out to arm the other islamists. | ||
| Hootowl |
You remember the Iran-Contra affair? Big doings. Everyone was stirred up. The press was rabid. Democrats were livid. Reagan was president. It involved supplying arms to folks in violation of the will of the congress. Just like Benghazi, where congress decided to not arm our enemies, and the president did so anyway. The difference is that the press is providing cover for their horse this time. | ||
| Reindog |
America can not and will not withstand an Electorate that is not Virtuous. Totalitarianism follows a divided nation where the rulers tax the middle class out of existence and devalues its money. Look at Greece. Start Looking at America. OK Tod666: answer the questions you've been asked or get off the stage. Not only is Liberalism dangerous; Liberalism is boring and I suppose that is one of its tactics.  | ||
| Sifo |
Tod, wouldn't it be great if Hillary provided the requested emails to the investigators as required by law? Instead we are now finding out that she in fact destroyed email regarding Benghazi, but are still floating around elsewhere. This was done in violation of numerous laws, including the laws that are in place that are meant to prevent her from doing that in the first place. I've just spent some time away from much modern technology. For more than a week we were staying with my mother-in-law. She knows almost nothing about what is going on in our country right now. She seems happy that way. Personally, I think it's a shame. She has spent her entire life voting the way the union tells her to, and she doesn't fret over making a poor choice. This doesn't mean that she never makes that poor choice, just that she has insulated herself from that poor choice. A funny think happened while we were there. She was watching her CBS news and caught a bit of the softball interview they had with Brian Williams. This was the first she had heard about the entire Brian Williams scandal. She still has no clue that Williams did anything seriously wrong. She is the classic low-information voter. After that nine day visit, I felt like I had also lost touch with anything happening out of my immediate line of sight. While I can see the appeal to this, it's also quite terrifying that you are completely giving in to the whim of who ever is in charge to do right by you. In essence, it is voluntary serfdom. Not something I can be comfortable with at all. Honestly, I had no idea that you could watch the morning NBC news for two hours straight, and the only news you get is your local weather. It was a real eye opener for me. In contrast, I spent my most recent 10 days at my mother's place. Still mostly way from modern technology, but well connected to news sources that provide real information. Still I was lacking an internet connection, and don't have a smart phone. Still, it takes very little to be connected to reality beyond your own personal horizon. It's a much different world when you are informed about what is going on in the world. For those who are actually watching what's going on, it's more than obvious that our country is heading in a very bad direction. Not that long ago, we were discussing what would happen if we kept going the direction of Greece. I saw it argued repeatedly that Greece would be just fine. I'm curious if you have seen what's happening in Greece at the moment? We are on that same path. Eventually reality will rush in over your personal horizon and you will be helpless to do anything about it. Funny to see we have a low information person poking fun at the whole John Galt bit too. Who is John Galt? Apparently, many folks are, and the numbers are growing exponentially.  http://www.cnbc.com/id/102799503 FIFTYS | ||
| Aesquire |
Liberals have had their good name stolen and defiled by Progressives. Progressive is Communist with fresh paint. The entire structure including the name is a lie. Progressives are Regressive, supporting anti freedom measures and control of the masses by a self appointed elite. Have you read Hillary's senior thesis? I have. Want a link? | ||
| Sifo |
Want a link? Yes | ||
| Tod662 |
I was asked a very simple question that has a very complex answer, congress has spent many tens of millions of dollars trying to get to the bottom of that. Yet you are going to make demands of me while at the same time my rudimentary questions are ignored. raindog could you please lay out what you believe was the cause, in your own words and maybe with some citation of sources. | ||
| Sifo |
Tod, I assume you are asking about what happened in Benghazi. It is very complex. Here's some of what we do know... The embassy was asking for more security based on "chatter" as the 9/11 anniversary approached and were denied this security by the state department. They were attacked on that 9/11 anniversary, by an enemy using crew manned weapons. This just doesn't happen when a demonstration gets out of hand. Our armed forces were told to stand down on helping those asking for help. A couple of people decided to ignore that and stepped in anyway, providing enough fight to make things last for many hours. The immediate response from our administration was that this was just a demonstration that got out of hand (see above note about crew served weapons). This was blamed on a video that virtually nobody had seen at that point, and they said they would bring those involved to justice. They did throw the producer of the video into jail. Here's some of what we don't know with any degree of certainty. Who in the chain of command gave the stand down order? Where exactly was BO while this was all happening? Were we actually involved in running guns through our embassy? Who exactly was involved in denying the improved security for our embassy, and why? Who exactly made the decision to push the story that it was just an out of hand demonstration about a video that nobody knew about? Where are all of the emails from our State Department regarding these matters? Why is everybody called to testify in the investigation about this stonewalling on virtually all questions of significance? Are you really going to tell us that none of this bothers you in the slightest? REALLY? | ||
| Reepicheep |
And let me draw specific attention to knowingly lying to the American people to deliberately mislead them to cover up personal mistakes that lead directly to the death of a US Ambassador at the hands of a dangerous but poorly equipped and poorly organized enemy organization. And doing so primarily to facilitate reelection. Politics is politics, and it is heavy with spin. I get that. But when an ambassador is killed in the line of duty, and the response of the federal government is protecting their chances for reelection, and the media is complicit (for the same reasons, to ensure an aligned political party gets reelected), we are in serious trouble as a country. All the controls are broken... | ||
| Reepicheep |
(and I would say exactly the same thing if Ronald Reagan himself had done it...) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/04/hilla ry-clintons-1969-thesis-on-saul.html?m=1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_sen ior_thesis We now know from emails deleted in defiance of law by Hillary that the Obama administration lied about Benghazi for political reasons..... to avoid embarrassment during his re election. | ||
| Aesquire |
The gunrunning? Source New York Times. Hillary promising to jail the film maker? Source family of the slain. Pressure on Turkey & Egypt to go along with the lie about the film? Source deleted email, recovered from State dept. Server. Obama telling subordinates to handle it and went to watch tv & sleep before fundraiser? Source Obama White House. Barry doing a J before bed? Speculation. That they lie to you? Source. Reality itself plus myriad other sources. Including testimony under oath. | ||
| Sifo |
I'm willing to bet that Tod, when he complains about the number of Congressional investigations into Benghazi, is simply confused. It's not that there have been so many investigations into Benghazi, but that there have been so many Congressional investigations into so many thing that all seem to run into the same road blocks. Benghazi (which in itself has numerous facets worthy of investigation by themselves) IRS targeting of conservative organizations Obamacare roll out failures The IRS rehiring the company that gave us the Obamacare failures The VA scandal Hell, I'm not even going try to make a comprehensive list. I do wonder though, if Tod is familiar with this...?  | ||
| Oldog |
how many congressional investigations have there been into the cause of Benghazi? Again Two as far as I know... I was asked a very simple question that has a very complex answer, [two] Really ??, congress has spent many tens of millions of dollars trying to get to the bottom of that. Both sides of the isle are guilty of witch hunting, BUT PEOPLE DIED in Lybia, because if the inaction of the pResident. As for the cost we have much bigger fish to fry. In a manner of speaking its like a magician using misdirection to fool his audience. Yet you are going to make demands of me while at the same time my rudimentary questions are ignored. which ones?, you have stated that "many tens of millions of dollars" I answered "Two" Did we miss some thing? } | ||
| Tod662 |
I love how it takes the whole badweb brain trust to answer me. "Debunking a series of persistent allegations hinting at dark conspiracies, the investigation of the politically charged incident determined that there was no intelligence failure, no delay in sending a CIA rescue team, no missed opportunity for a military rescue, and no evidence the CIA was covertly shipping arms from Libya to Syria. In the immediate aftermath of the attack, intelligence about who carried it out and why was contradictory, the report found. That led Susan Rice, then U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, to inaccurately assert that the attack had evolved from a protest, when in fact there had been no protest. But it was intelligence analysts, not political appointees, who made the wrong call, the committee found. The report did not conclude that Rice or any other government official acted in bad faith or intentionally misled the American people. The House Intelligence Committee report was released with little fanfare on the Friday before Thanksgiving week. Many of its findings echo those of six previous investigations by various congressional committees and a State Department panel. The eighth Benghazi investigation is being carried out by a House Select Committee appointed in May." Source PBS Nov. 2014 (now you guys can blather on about my leftist source because all the right leaning sewage on the web is much more reliable.) Yes there may be something found by the latest witch hunt but they have found NOTHING yet except that she asked a staffer for a bottle of water. do you need me to quote the findings of all of these? (and more?): -House Committee on Armed Services the Committee on Armed Services has received and reviewed hundreds of pages of written material, much of it classified, from Department of Defense. The committee has also convened two open hearings, seven classified Member briefings, and three classified staff briefings. -House Committee on Foreign Affairs The Committee on Foreign Affairs has been actively engaged since September 11, 2012 in oversight work related to the Benghazi terrorist attacks. To date, the Committee has held four public hearings with senior State Department officials, including former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and other experts. Additionally, the Committee has held two classified Member briefings. Chairman Ed Royce has authored, or sent jointly with sister committees, 14 oversight letters to the Administration, while investigative staff has reviewed over 25,000 pages of documents reluctantly produced by the Department. -House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform has held three public hearings related to the terrorist attacks in Benghazi and conducted over a dozen transcribed interviews with relevant officials in the State Department and the Department of Defense. -House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence held Full Committee oversight events with National Counterterrorism Center Director Matt Olsen and then-CIA Director David Petraeus on September 13th and 14th 2012–directly after the attack. Since then, the Committee has held an additional 14 full Committee events including regular hearings on the Administration’s efforts to identify the attackers. -Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Benghazi Report Review of The Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Facilities in Benghazi, Libya, September 11-12,2012,” January 15, 2014 -And the State Departments Accountability Review Board (ARB) for Benghazi Report | ||
| Hootowl |
None of those committees received the documents they asked for. Those documents were destroyed. By Hillary. On purpose. | ||
| Court |
The big news item last week was the announcement that if Hillary continues to evade answering that John Kerry will be called to speak on behalf of the State Department. NO investigation has made any significant progress. To date that is the result of evasion by Hillary. | ||
| Reepicheep |
You assume we think either side is particularly reliable. I have found the media in general (like 85% of the time) to be very unreliable. This seems to be equally true when they agree with my beliefs, and when they conflict with my beliefs. In fact the more I know about the topic (engineering, cyber security, primary education) the more I can see that they are getting flat out wrong. Which makes me suspect they are just as wrong about other topics that I less know about, but I don't know enough to see it. 15% of the time though, they nail it, and I learn. As actual verifiable facts roll in, my conclusions change frequently. If you think PBS has a corner on unbiased and unvarnished truth, while Fox is nothing but right wing propaganda, you are a fool being played. And likewise, if you think Fox has a corner on unbiased and unvarnished truth, while NPR is nothing but left wing hot air, you are likewise a fool being played. | ||
| Sifo |
Tod, explain to me just how complete any investigation can possibly be when evidence is being withheld? That is clearly the case in the investigation that you claim clears the players in Benghazi. There is a great difference between failing to find evidence and proving guilt. What has been proven since that time however, is that evidence was withheld and destroyed. Exactly what evidence, we will likely never know, simply because it has been destroyed, at least according to Hillary herself. This is what happens when you allow your leaders to break their own rules and be the keepers of their own email servers. We are finding our more and more on this corruption daily. At least those who are paying attention are. The destroying of emails seems to be a recurring theme among people high up in this administration. Why do you think that might be? The IRS just got caught with the fact that they knowingly destroyed backups of emails that were being requested by Congress. These are the same emails that we had been told were not backed up, among many other bogus stories about why they weren't being turned over. Sadly, our DOJ is equally complicit in all of this corruption, so nothing is done. No reason to comply with an investigation when there is no consequence for non-compliance, is there? No doubt you will choose to ignore all of this though, and continue to support what is going on regardless of the level of corruption involved. | ||
| Oldog |
Well this guy just threw his hat in the ring, lets see where this goes. Waiting to see how Hitlery responds... Oh and he has some quite impressive accomplishments ( I think a real "Democrat" just announced ) OOPS! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/02/democrat-jim-webb-joins-2016-white-house-race/ (Message edited by oldog on July 02, 2015) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm currently subject to several legal holds. There isn't even litigation yet, its just because there is a credible threat of litigation. I honor them completely for three reasons: 1) I'm not an immoral ass****. 2) My company pays me and expects me to follow the law. 3) I'm not going to be protected by a corrupt department of justice. Hillary Clinton, Lois Lerner, Eric Holder, and President Obama may be in a different circumstance.  | ||
| Court |
I'm currently subject to I honor them completely for three reasons: 1) I'm not an immoral ass****. 2) My company pays me and expects me to follow the law. 3) I'm not going to be protected by a corrupt department of justice. | ||
| Tod662 |
does the statement "innocent till proven guilty" mean anything? (this isn't even speculation with information) Sifo please explain the "difference between failing to find evidence and proving guilt" She says that the deleted emails (possibly done well before they were requested) were all personal. and I can't find a hint of evidence to the contrary I would love to see a comprehensive study of the evidence between misdeeds on this issue by this administration and the TRILLIONS spent and TENS OF THOUSANDS OF LIVES lost in a bogus war fostered by Gdub and Vader. EMails emails emails, I am the one you guys claim that is easily misled , here is a question for you. If this is a Iron-Contra size debacle how is there not a shred of evidence besides the laughable explanation that she deleted ALL the evidence there is from her PRIVATE EMAIL. There is no other creditable source of evidence for this huge atrocity? P.S the NY times story is so full of speculation and hearsay, it is laughable. The Libyan government is the only source of info i can see, is that correct? That is what you guys hinge all your venemation on? Do you want me to list the long and distinguished list of weapons that have been used against us that were handed out by GOP leaders over the last 35 years? Um, into the hands of osama bin laden and Saddam just to name a few? Wow the statements that have been made here by the BBT pretty much say there is no real story JUST IDLE SPECULATION, you guys say that, not me. | ||
| Hootowl |
"and I can't find a hint of evidence to the contrary" Because you are willfully ignorant. Copies of those 'personal' deleted emails have turned up (they were sent or received by someone) and they had to do with State business, and were not about what was for dinner. She deleted non personal email that she knew would be subpoenaed in an upcoming investigation. That is illegal. Folks at Enron went to prison for that. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo please explain the "difference between failing to find evidence and proving guilt" Seriously, You claim to not understand the difference? BTW, one of the problems with these house investigations is that they MUST end based on the election schedule. That's one of the reasons that at the "conclusion" of their investigation, they hadn't found answers. There were also many witnesses that hadn't been spoken to, such as those who claimed to have received the stand down order, or those who survive the Benghazi attack. The bottom line is that it's impossible for a House committee to simply keep an investigation open until they have had sufficient time to gather all evidence, and heard testimony from all witnesses. It just can't be done because the people involved get shuffled every two years. Funny bring up the Iraq war, not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand. You do know that Hillary voted in favor of it, don't you? Think she might have, just possibly asked for an opinion on it from the prior President somewhere along the way? I just find it inconceivable that they would never have talked about it before she voted. She of all people had the inside track on the right vote on that issue. | ||
| Aesquire |
The law states you may not destroy emails that may be subpoenaed. It matters not if they are or not. They were destroyed. They were subpoenaed. This is a crime. Email recovered from Other servers show evidence that Hillary lied about Benghazi. Innocent until proven guilty is one thing. Hillary told us she broke the law. The Clinton way is to slow roll the crimes public. First they say they don't even know the woman. weeks later, yes they knew her but not well. several cycles later..... there is no smoking gun. The next day, it's old news.... and a conspiracy of their enemies. Why are we talking about this? It doesn't matter if over the course of months they admitted to consuming the girl in a cannibalistic ritual to Saul Alinsky. It's over, why are you talking about it? Btw. I don't know how many inquiries there have been about the illegal actions of the Clinton "family". I just know there will be more. A better question is will Chelsea follow her very lucrative path, or rat on her parents? I bet she rides the gravy train until after they pass on, or are convicted. |
