| Author | Message | ||
     Tpoppa |
^^^ Your point is not clear. If you feel a protest is warranted, is there something preventing you from organizing one? Outside of military action...It seems unnecessary when anyone gets shot/killed regardless of their chosen profession. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
But when you break the law, and force them to drop the hammer it is? They are just as entitled to live as anyone of the offenders they are dealing with...Granted the Gray case is not one of those scenarios obvious neglect to say the least. However the point I think Reindog is making is that, this officer was murdered in cold blood and there should be just as much outrage and anger as was with the any other case. But because he was a cop nobody cares, unless they have had an opportunity to see the difference these guys can make in any citizens life for good. | ||
| Court |
When I got shot . . . no one protested. | ||
| Hootowl |
Hey, as long as no one cheers, I think you're in good shape.  | ||
| Tpoppa |
But when you break the law, and force them to drop the hammer it is? They are just as entitled to live as anyone of the offenders they are dealing with...Granted the Gray case is not one of those scenarios obvious neglect to say the least. Agreed. I would never fault anyone for defending them self with their life in danger. I certainly would. It does seem that, for Police, saying "I feared for my life" is the go to response after a questionable shooting. I would like to see those situations scrutinized more by IA, DOJ, and the departments themselves. But because he was a cop nobody cares Are you sure about that ? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/nyregion/brian-m oore-new-york-police-officer-shot-in-the-head-has- died.html?_r=0 There is no protest, because there's nothing to protest. The shooter is in custody. He is being tried for murder & I'll bet both my motorcycles he get's convicted. I feel badly for his family. Just as I feel badly for Gray's family. | ||
| Hootowl |
There are six cops charged in the death of Gray. And yet, the protests continue. | ||
| Reindog |
I am not a supporter of the barbarians and thugs who were looking for the excuse of unproven police brutality to "Purge". I do not support the politicization by Marilyn Mosby who is derelict in her duty and partial with her relationship with the Gray family and their money. I am not rushing to judgement about the police unlike some here. The police deserve a fair, impartial trial which is impossible in Baltimore with its lynch mob mentality and race baiting carpetbaggers. #PoliceLivesMatter. | ||
| Hootowl |
Stopping the riots was the reason they were charged. They won't be convicted. And if they are, it won't hold up on appeal. These folks were arrested for political reasons. Appeasement never works long term. | ||
| Tpoppa |
There are six cops charged in the death of Gray. And yet, the protests continue. ...and I'll bet both my motorcycles that none of them get convicted. The overwhelming majority of courts are unwilling or unable to prosecute officers. The court system is stacked in favor of officers & the officers know that. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I get and appreciate the "don't rush to judgement" thing. But the media is SO bad I feel the need to explore topics in a semi public forum, and interesting badweb has been one of the most thoughtful and reliable venues I have found for doing this. The media won't get it right, especially early on, and I like to be informed enough to address both misconceptions and injustices as appropriate. If the cop here failed to report a stop in the action report after he already knew somebody was on their way to the ER without a pulse, and that stop was only found because somebody came forward with private video, the gun is smoking pretty badly. I'll wait for the facts for a conclusion, but at this point based on what we know, it looks bad for a group I want to defend wherever possible, but prosecute aggressively when actions are indefensible. With great power comes great responsibility... | ||
| Hootowl |
"...and I'll bet both my motorcycles that none of them get convicted" That's an easy bet to make. Of course none of them will be convicted. None of them committed murder. | ||
| Tpoppa |
They won't be convicted. And if they are, it won't hold up on appeal. Correct. | ||
| Reindog |
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| Reindog |
Correctly stated, Reepicheep. Thanks. | ||
| Sifo |
Will there be an convictions of these six cops? I really don't know. I don't think there will be any murder convictions. I say that based on facts that I've seen to this point. That charge just isn't justified based on publicly know facts at this point. That's one of the problems with our current criminal justice system though. We see six people who have been overcharged. It's a tool of a lazy legal system. You overcharge them and try to force them into making a deal on a lesser charge that they will plead guilty to to avoid potentially being forced to go through what George Zimmerman went through. Or worse! Certainly all six aren't responsible for not restraining the victim in the back of the van. Did they even give him a "rough ride"? Nothing has come from the other person who was arrested and put in the back of that van that I'm aware of that would support the "rough ride" story. No doubt they are hoping for one or two of the six cops charged with murder to make a deal to testify against the other cops. What happens if there is no conspiracy among them to do harm to the victim though? Justice is not done in that case by overcharging them. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
Tpoppa, You do not protest only government You protest or "demonstrate" within your own community. I would hope there are some demonstrations advocating support for this mans family and cause(police) in NYC that is inclusive of many races and creeds, in a peaceful manner of course. This demonstrates within your own communities that change is a 2 way street. Unfortunately these are entrenching issues where society seems to dictate a with us or against attitude towards these things. IE you cannot support Black rights and cops lives There's no reason those two sentiments are not inclusive of each other, but the way things run off the tracks were way past that(socially) (Please pardon any grammar or spelling errors, I did this on my phone) | ||
| Gregtonn |
"There are six cops charged in the death of Gray. And yet, the protests continue." "IE you cannot support Black rights and cops lives..." Did anyone notice that three of the cops charged are black and that one of them is a black woman? http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_28030865/photos-mug- shots-6-baltimore-cops-charged-death I would say Tpoppa has a pretty safe bet. The question is; Will there be more riots if the three white guys don't get convicted? G | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The riots have zero to do with racial injustice. Racial injustice is simply a pretext to commit crime. It wasn't the charges brought against these 6 officers that stopped the riots. It was the National Guards with M4s that stopped the riots. Unfortunately, utilization of the National Guard in this way will make calls for militarization easier. False security is brought by the initial stages of a military junta. It isn't until it's too late that people realize that the military isn't there for them. | ||
| Gaesati |
Totally agree, and the national guard won't make the disaffected more involved in the community, nor will it stop them from rioting and looting next time there is an opportunity. So, what do you do: Shoot all rioters? Jail them and increase the prison population massively including the afro-american proportion? Deport them? Actively try to change their perceptions of the greater society. I think the big issue for western democracies is that every time there are riots like these, no matter what country they are in, ISIS and it's ilk will be out there recruiting. | ||
| Tpoppa |
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/05/politics/anthony-bat ts-baltimore-police-riots-problem/index.html In his first interview after Gray's death, Baltimore Police Commissioner Anthony Batts told CNN's Evan Perez that the community lacks trust in law enforcement, and police must acknowledge that "we are part of the problem." "The community needs to hear that," he said. "The community needs to hear from us that we haven't been part of the solution, and now we have to evolve. Now we have to change." It seems rather strange that the Baltimore Police Commissioner can admit that police are part of the problem, but many here cannot. Heavy handed police tactics and mistrust in police have lead to many instances of violence directed at officers...with some fatal results. It is in the best interests of the officers to move away from tactics that trigger that violent backlash. The FOP has had every opportunity to be the leader in driving that change, but sadly they are more interested in maintaining the status quo. | ||
| Aesquire |
Fop? You do have a point. The jack booted thugs of the alphabet agencies kicking doors and stealing property wearing masks is not good p.r. for police. There's a difference between no broken windows and oppression. The events in Madison Wisconsin where not only do they surround the house with armored vehicles & steal property but also threaten the occupants, ordering them not to call a lawyer or tell anyone about the raid......is not American. Period. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Fop? Fraternal Order of Police | ||
| Reepicheep |
Is the FOP, like most unions, deep in bed with the Democrats? | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
LOL, Toppa..The Police answer to the Chief who, in turn, answers to the Mayor. It starts at the top. The rank and file take their orders and direction from them. | ||
| Reindog |
This is one of the causes of the Baltimore Purge.  #PoliceLivesMatter. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
When I got shot . . . no one protested. I never knew you were a lineman in West Baltimore | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/when-iran -has-the-bomb-rethinking-the-unthinkable/ letter headed... "running from the police" Dear Mr. Pournelle: I’ve been thinking about your comment that it is in general not a good idea to run from the police. I’m in part concerned because I’m seeing elsewhere some tendency to argue “well, it was their own fault they’re dead”; and I don’t think that leads us in good directions. But I think the issue is worth discussing. A first question would be: how much do you trust the police? A second could be: how much is at stake? For you? It seems that, in some communities, people have come to expect that any interaction with the police is dangerous; and that your innocence or guilt is of only marginal importance. Reframe the question: would you run from an armed mugger, or submit? Some measure of trust is essential. The second question turns out complicated. I’ve recently read articles pointing out that, for people without money, “deadbeat dad” laws are producing perverse results. In many states, you are *presumed* to be able to pay child support; evidence of your actual salary is irrelevant, the law presumes you make an average wage. Therefore if you do *not* pay child support, you are a deadbeat; therefore you are arrested, put in jail, and you lose your job… Debtor’s prison, anyone? In such a situation, it would be not unreasonable to fear that any interaction with the police will escalate. You’ve been stopped in traffic? Now your child support comes up on the screen; and now your life crashes and burns. Running, I think, seems less insane. I think this question is going to be difficult. I tend to trust the police, and would be much inclined to follow their instructions. But then I’ve never been given any reason to think that they are anything other than my defenders, who deserve my respect. On the other hand, it seems clear there are communities who have been given many reasons to think of the police otherwise. This is not a stable situation, let alone just. Resolving it is important. I am inclined to think that most of the opportunities for resolving it rest with the police and with governments, not because “it’s their fault” but because they have actions and decisions available which could be productive. And of course, beyond that, as citizens who are *not* afraid of the police, it is our responsibility also. Yours, Allan E. Johnson Avoiding the police is often a good idea. Actually running from them is not likely to be successful, particularly if you leave property behind. Your points are valid, of course. Just as "well meaning" legislation has led to a 70% illegitimacy rate in Black American homes, the "Housing Bubble" and subsequent theft of taxpayer money to pay bank's government mandated losses, so has "well meaning" legislation led to the above conundrum. If any contact with the police is going to result in my arrest and imprisonment, I'm going to avoid them at all costs. This is ancient history now, but back in 1975 NY Governor Rocky signed New York's very harsh Drug Laws. In them the punishment for selling an ounce of heroin or cocaine was roughly equal to murder. And harder to get out of, on purpose. I'll skip the history of insane drug laws, but this particular set had implications that I and my fellow students in a Law course saw at once, and pointed out to our teacher, the local P.D. and our State Legislators. If the punishment for killing the cop, and selling dope was the same, ( and it was close enough ) then it's logical, in a criminal way, to decide to just kill the arresting officer and hope to get away, win win. If you didn't get away, not such a big loss. It was obvious to us, that the result of this law would be a lot more dead cops. We got bad drug laws, and more dead cops. And more dead neighbors, and more dead drug salesmen, and more dead children, and, I assure you, no less drugs. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/05/06/lapd-chief-be ck-throws-officer-involved-in-venice-shooting-unde r-the-bus-before-any-investigation/ | ||
| Ducbsa |
More on the nature of the charges against the six officers: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/05/repo rt-freddie-gray-task-force-perceived-no-homicide.p hp | ||
| Reindog |
Evidence is mounting in the political lynching of the Baltimore officers. Waiting for Tpoppa to start posting about the growing malfeasance of the Baltimore/Democrat machine railroading the police.  #PoliceLivesMatter |
