| Author | Message | ||
     Pwnzor |
I'm Episcopalian by baptism, been attending the church all my life. That being said, I declined being confirmed because the Church allows openly gay bishops and performs gay weddings. They refused to perform my own wedding due to the fact my wife had been previously married. Yes, you read that right, they won't marry ME (unless we take THREE YEARS of counseling), but they will join two deviants in "holy" matrimony on the spot. Because of these things which run counter to my own beliefs, I declined confirmation, and I do not tithe. However, I do donate my time and efforts and money to specific things which the Church does to help the homeless people in my hometown. My mother carries on a program which my dad started in downtown Long Beach to feed people and put clothes on their backs. My little part is supplying all the toothpaste and tooth brushes that are handed out each month. My point being this: I'm still Episcopalian, a Christian by birth and lifelong faith. I don't blindly throw money into the pot in order to support things I don't believe in, I have taken this stand. I continue to do things in my life that I believe Jesus would have wanted me to do. I give. I feed. I donate randomly here and there, but I do NOT feed the machine. What can be said of "moderate" Muslims, who stand by and watch as radicals hijack their faith and use it to political ends, the means to which are incredibly violent and completely opposite to any reasonable idea of what a benevolent creator intended, at least in my own mind. Then I dig into the idea that the Muslim faith itself has been usurped by those who perform the Devil's work... but the more I read and hear, it seems that the "radicals" are actually practicing the faith to the letter of the law. Not the other way around. Where are the "moderates", where is the outrage? Who is taking a stand against this? Are we to believe that "moderates" actually exist? The religion itself TEACHES it's followers to DECEIVE. The Koran teaches intolerance at every level. It teaches that it's ok to lie and conceal true intentions in order to achieve an objective, primarily to convert the infidels or kill them if they don't convert. The prophet of Islam was a child molester and murderer. Are there any Muslims here on BadWeB? If so, can you tell me what I need to read in order to further educate myself? Am I missing something? If there are no Muslims here, then how about one of the liberal apologists chimes in and tell me how wrong I am. | ||
| Hootowl |
I am also Episcopalian by baptism, but also by confirmation. I was confirmed prior to all the shenanigans. It isn't the same church any longer. The official doctrine has become very Progressive. I stopped going. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I know a few Muslims girls from the Stans; by the most part - they are modern with their technology - don't drive, happy to shop with the family money and stay the f*ck out of religion / politics - cuz they could get beat, burnt, or murdered. and they are odd with the lines of what is and what isn't 'allowed' ie Botox is widely spread as a cosmetic treatment - they were horrified to find out it was pig .... but they are still down with disgust about eating bacon ? I grew up Jehovah's Witness - I don't believe in any church or government - and I trust them less. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Pope Francis seems like a nice man, but a bad Catholic. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
I'm not sure what your reading, but remember over there to speak your mind against how things are going is to tie your own noose. They are not armed like a large group of Americans are so to stand up against a few is no small task. Granted I hear where your coming from, but generations of fear has crippled these countries. And while we love to ignore it, the crusades were a dark part of christian history...perhaps this is Islams dark passage to be overcome. I've known several peace loving Muslims...Having never read the Koran( I thought it was with a q but whatever) I can't speak to just how tolerant it is. I do know here in america we can be every bit as intolerant as any other society out there...we won't kill you but we still can be every bit as intolerant. Pope Francis by my view has done many great thing's for the church. And has brought back something that's been waning for years even with Jean Paull II...Jesus' love and tolerance of everybody...Being a catholic doesn't mean you should hate gays, Your free to disagree with them but the amount of Hate that flows through church is what has turned me off to it. So I as you Pwnzor was baptized(catholic when I was young) and had my first communion, But I refuse to confirm to any place that promotes hate as a means of worshiping god...When I was younger I remember a sermon where the priest said we should Ostracize a local gay couple who volunteered at the local pantry and did more for the community than any good standing catholic at this church did. | ||
| Pwnzor |
remember over there to speak your mind against how things are going is to tie your own noose. Granted... but what about HERE? One of my drivers is a Muslim, and I have to dispatch around his requirements to stop and pray 5 times a day, and 2 hours off every Friday so he can go to the mosque from 1:30 to 3:30. It's not really a problem, and he seems a very nice man, has a bunch of kids, works hard, etc. We don't talk religion at work, but I often wonder what his views are. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I too am baptised but not confirmed, C of E. I gave up on religions when I found out that people I knew had died due to the so called religious beliefs of terrorists and the god whose name it was done in let it happen, even though I'd been taught that he was all powerful and could have stopped it. He was supposed to be my God, and I found I couldn't worship a God I couldn't respect. I've seen atrocity after atrocity committed by one true faith or another over the years to no good end, and want none of it, though I'm perfectly happy for anyone else to worship the deity of their choice. I've known a number of Muslims over the years, with varying levels of adherence, from booze and bacon consumption to prayer several times a day, they've been pretty much normal people who just want to keep their heads down and get on quietly with their lives, much like most of us. | ||
| Reepicheep |
People are messy. God could fix that, but only by completely removing people from the equation. Believe what you believe... but logically, just because people are people, that does not mean God is not God. Here is a great easy read exploring the topic that might help you in a lot of other ways also, even if you don't agree with all of it. http://www.amazon.com/What-Wrong-People-Mark-Lutz/ dp/1634132718/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431011471&sr =8-1&keywords=what+is+wrong+with+people | ||
| Hootowl |
"And while we love to ignore it, the crusades were a dark part of christian history" You've been lied to. The crusades were an attempt to throw the muslims out of Europe and then the holy land. It was a response to hundreds of years of muslim expansion and aggression. There are still pockets of muslim separatists in Spain. They're still waging jihad. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
Hootowl, I understand it was war both ways but after 3 semesters doing western civ stuff(filler stuff waiting for my spot to open up over in machining), I've never really heard that..do you have any essays on it or anything(legitimately intrigued if this is the case) Ultimately the point of my post was missed I believe. Pwnzor, what do you mean about here?Do you mean muslims who are not radical out in the streets changing their faiths public image? I'd be interested to see how many muslim attacks carried out abroad were commited by 100% homegrown muslims(for example a us national) who was not in contact with some sort of extremist group. And was solely inspired by the Koran. Ultimately I doubt there is anything definitive there but its worth a thought I guess. | ||
| Hootowl |
"after 3 semesters doing western civ" There's your problem. The political climate in colleges and universities prohibits blaming anyone but westerners for the world ills. | ||
| Hootowl |
The crusades were a response to muslim aggression and military conquest. Like any war, especially wars predating the 21st century, they were bloody, and lots of civilians died. That's just what war was (is). Damning Christianity and the West for engaging in warfare against its enemy is just plain silly. http://history-world.org/crusades.htm "ORIGINS OF THE CRUSADES After the death of Charlemagne, king of the Franks, in 814 and the subsequent collapse of his empire, Christian Europe was under attack and on the defensive. Magyars, nomadic people from Asia, pillaged eastern and central Europe until the 10th century. Beginning about 800, several centuries of Viking raids disrupted life in northern Europe and even threatened Mediterranean cities. But the greatest threat came from the forces of Islam, militant and victorious in the centuries following the death of their leader, Muhammad, in 632. By the 8th century, Islamic forces had conquered North Africa, the eastern shores of the Mediterranean, and most of Spain. Islamic armies established bases in Italy, greatly reduced the size and power of the Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire) and besieged its capital, Constantinople. The Byzantine Empire, which had preserved much of the classical civilization of the Greeks and had defended the eastern Mediterranean from assaults from all sides, was barely able to hold off the enemy. Islam posed the threat of a rival culture and religion, which neither the Vikings nor the Magyars had done." | ||
| Hootowl |
The word "crusades" meant nothing to muslims until very recently. Those wars were simply wars, just like any other war. They weren't particularly violent or traumatic in comparison to any other war the muslims had fought. Not until the Western progressives, in their attempt to damn Christianity, began pointing to the crusades and proof of our guilt as murderers and tyrants did muslims begin to hurl "crusader" at westerners as some sort of insult. | ||
| Pwnzor |
When I say "here", I mean the United States of America, where for the most part the average person is safe to walk down the street and express his or her views freely. I wonder how many are like me, in that I read my bible and make my own decisions based on the knowledge I can gather on my own, rather than what the almighty Church feeds me. Are the Muslims here just scared that they will get beheaded? Are they merely complacent? Are they ignorant? For my part, while I'm not out in the street changing the face of my religion, I do tell anybody who will listen what my views are... including Deacons, Bishops, and even the Cardinal when he came to visit a couple years ago. Innes, it makes me sad that you've lost your faith, but it doesn't anger me or even make me lose hope that you may find it again. I understand what you mean, but God isn't looking for our respect. It's absolute folly to believe that our finite minds could begin to understand His plans. | ||
| Sifo |
Great post Matt. I might suggest finding a non-denominational Bible church to avoid the politics of the various brands of Christianity. You may still find internal politics, but that tends to happen whenever two or more people organize anything. At least I've found that Bible churches put more focus on the actual Bible than certain other brands of Christianity. Dwilson357, information about the Crusades being a response to Islamic oppression is very easy to find. It seems unlikely to do any sort of study of the Crusades without running into this unless it is being spoon fed by a pretty biased source. I might suggest you do some reading on this subject, then ask yourself about what else you were "taught". | ||
| Dwilson357 |
Hootowl, good read, we spent most of our time discussing how the Europeans lost what they gained in the first one....of the 3 semesters in weestern civ I'd say we spent one total dealing with the crusades, but the consensus from it all was the holy land was coveted and winning it over was a tremendous victory for the church. thanks for the read! Pwnzor I would surmise from the families I've known that they are all, as you are, reasonable and thinking people, I don't believe(or maybe I'm naive) that the mass majority of Muslims are out for us...but as always one bad apple can spoil a bunch...I think the estimated number of Muslims in the world are 1.5 billion. I haven't lost faith in god, just the church | ||
| Hootowl |
"I haven't lost faith in god, just the church" That's where I'm at too. | ||
| Pwnzor |
"I haven't lost faith in god, just the church" I hope that's where Innes is too. I get the frustration, I really do. God is love. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Me too, but I try and cut the Church some slack. It is a screwed up organization run by screwed up people. But it has done, on the balance, a hell of a lot more good for a hell of a lot more people for a hell of a lot less personal gain than pretty much any institution in the history of mankind. | ||
| Spiderman |
tell me how sacred marriage is again when you are on your second one. What is the old line don't throw stones in glass houses? Wasn't getting divorced a stoning offence in the old testament? Or is that something not convenient with your lifestyle so you ignore it? ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE!!! (Cause secretly the though of Adam and Steve get's us all hot!) | ||
| Tpoppa |
This is the quote that comes to mind most often when the topics of god/church/religion are mentioned. "Religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind - that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the ethical side have been more than overcome by the damage it has done to clear and honest thinking." - Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956) | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I'm sure and certain that there's a higher form of life than man, whether that's God or not I don't & can't know. I live my life by what have become known as Christian principles, but to me is just a right way of doing things. I don't disbelieve in God, but I'm contemptuous of religion. If God exists and is all knowing, He can see what kind of a person I am, and he'll understand my reluctance to submit to self-appointed interpreters of his wishes, usually to further their own ends. If there's a final judgement I'm prepared to stand up and be counted. I can't help but feel that it's a pretty poor God who'll condemn me for not being faithful to a fallible interpretation of his thoughts by fallible humans. And Matt, I thank you deeply for your concern for me. | ||
| Tankhead |
People are messy. God could fix that, but only by completely removing people from the equation. Believe what you believe... but logically, just because people are people, that does not mean God is not God. There is absolutely nothing logical in this statement. Having an assumed thought of what a supposed deity could do and then mentioning the word logic in regards to that is nonsensical. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Innes, you've put my heart at ease. Thank you for that. Spidey, tell me how sacred marriage is again when you are on your second one. I've only been married once, and I will never marry again. If my wife's past husbands had not been adulterers, she would still be married to the first one. | ||
| Spiderman |
But you are still divorced, you do not hold marriage to any high regard if you treat it like a used car. Till death do you part, in sickness and health in good and in bad. But understand when the bad get going so do you, not everyone can be strong... | ||
| Tpoppa |
Staying in a bad marriage is not noble, moral, or even wise. A bad marriage is worth trying to fix, but not all can be fixed. If there is a god, do you honestly think you would rewarded for remaining in an unhealthy situation? What kind of god would prefer that? | ||
| Hootowl |
"not hold marriage to any high regard" Society, in general, does not any longer. It's pretty sad. | ||
| Spiderman |
What kind of god would prefer that? Hmmmmmm I think you just proved your argument for me, YOU GUYS have no clue what your god wants, desires or thinks is right. So quit imposing imaginary, interpreted rules from an archaic system that was imposed as rules and laws before the idea of government existed. That liberal hippy Jesus sure taught a bunch of great things, too bad you guys are to stupid to get it! | ||
| Reindog |
Always nice to see Spidey drop by to say howdy. | ||
| Spiderman |
^^^^that's how you know when someone doesn't have an educated response or idea but still needs the last word |
