| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
A company in free fall kicks out as much ballast as it can to try to stay afloat. Sometimes that ballast is a passenger. With gold in their pockets. | ||
| Cmmagnussen |
Might have trouble selling in the US to buell fans but if the products cheap enough the sheep will come running | ||
| Hootowl |
EBRs assets are on the block. Is one of their assets the 20 million hero owes them? So hero buys the rest of EBR and, what? Owes themselves the money? Is a company's debtor allowed to bid? Doesn't seem right. IF this turns out to be true, that is. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well, we know the receiver, attorney Michael Polsky, is determining the debts and assets of EBR as part of his work. It sure seems like one of the first things he would find is an unpaid bill for $20M worth of engineering design worked owed by Hero to EBR. The article on receivership says the sale of EBR and/or its assets must be approved by a court. If Hero approached the court with an offer to buy EBR while still owing them $20M, I can't imagine a judge wouldn't have something to say about that. | ||
| Henshao |
Here's some history, for reference. "Cycleworld May, 2010 The Demise of the Buell Motorcycle Company An in-depth look at the forces that brought down America's sportbike maker By Steve Anderson ...One aspect of the big-bang plan included selling any Buell strategic assets, which included the design and tooling for the new B2 superbike, and the Griffin dirtbike design, which had been almost finished and partially tooled when that project had been shut down. Another came from the Harley board, and that was to capture the best people and best practices from Buell, including Erik Buell himself. Almost as soon as Erik was told of the decision, he retreated to his telephone and began to look for ways to save as much of the company as he could. Insiders tell me he quickly found the obvious customer for the strategic assets in Bombardier, owner of Rotax that was to supply the engines for both. It was owed an eight-figure sum to escape from the 1125cc engine contract, and it was willing to consider waiving some or all of it in exchange for the projects. As part of the arrangement, Erik would stay and work at Harley-Davidson, and a core team from buell would help finish and launch the new designs for Bombardier. Two high-ranking Bombardier officials, I am told, were scheduled to fly down on a Monday in November to complete due diligence on the procjets and to begin the process of formalizing the deal. But on the Friday before, Harley withdrew the procjets from sale, with B2 prototypes to be destroyed. The reason Harley agreed to pay out addtional tens of millions of dollars rather than have the B2 see the light of day can only be surmised. Erik packed up his office that day and began working on his departure from Harley-Davison...." | ||
| Hughlysses |
I just posted a link to the RoadRacingWorld story to Hero Motocorp's Facebook page. I wonder how that'll go over? | ||
| Slaughter |
I posted too. Last I checked, both were still up. | ||
| Steveford |
If my understanding is correct, Hero gave $15 million up front with a promise to pay $10 million later on. It looks like they didn't come up with the other $10 million and then stiffed EBR over $20 million in engineering bills? Is this correct? | ||
| Crusty |
If Hero does this to the people they work with, I wonder what the warranty on one of their bikes is worth? | ||
| Court |
The B2 prototypes are well hidden and there are some hilarious stories about that ......material, perhaps, for the next book. Don't get too hung up on specifics but some off the info beginning to filer out is dead on accurate .......EBR did not " go out of business" they were intentionally caught in a commercial head lock and strangled once HERO thought they had enough engineering to continue on their own. Scheduled milestone payments, due on delivery of certain enumerated milestones, were withheld. Frankly ....... I think this belongs in criminal court but that's my own opinion. I've discussed the details with a lawyer who could make a difference but ...... We will see, for those of us on the sideline, how this plays out. My heart goes out to Erik and all those who were working their asses off and so consumed in doing amazing things for Hero ( you folks would not believe some of the awesome projects at the 90% stage) that they left themselves vulnerable to what was the commercial equivalent of a 7 year old being attacked with a ball bat | ||
| Ruprecht |
They didn't really mention anything new. It was a small blurb. Basically just reprinted the assertions in their teaser with the Alan Cathcart quote that was posted earlier in this thread (the whole thing was attributed to Cathcart). | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ Joel- thanks for passing that along. Wouldn't it be cool if EBR secretly incorporated some very subtle, but catastrophic design flaw in all the products they designed for Hero, which would only show up after a few thousand miles of riding? Of course, I suppose it would be wrong to start such a rumor that might make its way to the Indian press...  | ||
| Hughlysses |
Interesting, Hero's annual board meeting is next week: http://www.equitybulls.com/admin/news2006/news_det .asp?id=158834 You have to wonder if their audited finanical statements will show they screwed EBR out of $20M. | ||
| Classax |
"Wouldn't it be cool if EBR secretly incorporated some very subtle, but catastrophic design flaw in all the products they designed for Hero, which would only show up after a few thousand miles of riding?" I have found India quality control to be similar to that of China, Iterative at best. If it is the case the Hero basically engaged in corporate espionage and commercial entrapment even though Erik,the elves, the dealers and we owners have little recourse, I assure you the internet isn't small enough to prevent Hero from having to wear a scarlet letter on this one. | ||
| Court |
>>>>even though Erik,the elves, the dealers and we owners have little recourse That's inaccurate. Hero's stock . . . which shot up with the announcement of the allegiance with Erik Buell has been in fretful. /i have nothing but 30 years of personal experience with Erik to back this up . .. but my money is on him. Erik's been up. Erik's been down. But . . through it all he's been our common surrogate for the risks we all wish we had the balls to take. Here's a guy who had,literally, millions, leaving Harley-Davidson and put EVERY penny of it at risk. Some will call me a kook-aid drinker spouting the "company liner" . . that, too, would be equally inaccurate. I've walked the road with Erik and have marveled, sometimes shaking my head, at some of the things he's done. That includes the personal checks he was writing for payroll, racing, facilities and equipment during the search for investors. You del the math. He was spending more, monthly, than most folks have in their 401(K). Ballsy falls far short of describing that. But above all else . . Erik Buell is the most honest and honorable person I have ever known. I know if and anyone who has worked for him knows it. He, like all of us, comes complete with an impressive list of faults, frailties and weaknesses. But he's never gone to sleep at night wondering if he'd done his best that day. This is the guy who, to make a deadline, spent something like 90 straight hours in the shop, to keep a promise. People who don''t like Erik admire him and people who have no interest in ever owning a Buell/EBR product, cheer him on. I've recently gone back into business for myself . . drawn back by the lure of the risk and the ability to steer my own ship. I know how passion colors perception and guides one on a path, Folks of disparate viewpoints will declare Erik either a victim or the cause of the instant challenges. But, as one of the few folks who has seen Erik cry . . as well as laugh . . . I'm putting my stock in him. I've got some facts, I hope to get more. But I'm going to predict that Erik Buell will prevail and that many of the expressed and perceived concerns of owners, loyal Buell followers and the media will prove baseless. That's my personal opinion. Court | ||
| Court |
P.S. - if you'll allow be a moment of emotion . . . I'd like to see Erik shove this entire incident up HERO's as like a colonoscopy with a garden rake. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Can somebody confirm that Keith Wandell is no longer at Harley Davidson? If that's the case, I would like to see Harley Davidson buy EBR and restart their sport bikes all over again! Erik knows how to build a motorcycle that Harley is missing out on the market with. They need to look to the future and bring a younger age group into motorcycling which they are not going to do with their current lineup of the motorcycles they are offering! Harley now has the money and the dealer network in place, they just need to turn all decision making over to Erik and let him run the show! I know a lot of you hate Harley Davidson and if you are like me, I always respected the motorcycle and the workers there, I just couldn't stand Keith Wandell because he was such an idiot! | ||
| Court |
>>>>Can somebody confirm that Keith Wandell is no longer at Harley Davidson? He is long gone . . retired. Matt Levatich as at the helm. He's smart and I like him. One of the most innovative things I ever did . . . and perhaps one of the greatest "rule breaking" departures from procedures . . . while a Buell employee was in concert with Matt when he was running Buell Europe. Based on that event, and the letter he sent about what I did and how it changed things, I know he's a results oriented guy. I'd rule nothing out. | ||
| Glitch |
P.S. - if you'll allow be a moment of emotion . . . All I know is I've only met the man once, at March Badness, and had a hell of a time. Then when I got sick (10 years later mind you) he sent me a letter that started out "Keep fighting the fight!" Keep fighting the fight Erik, its working for me! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Matt Levatich as at the helm. He's smart and I like him. And he has a degree in mechanical engineering and he rides an XR1200X, the best bike to carry the HD nameplate in some time. | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
Cyclonedon - As bad as I hate to say it, I could "almost" see this myself. I believe w/ the right leadership at H.D. this might not be a bad thing. Court - I totally agree w/ the medical procedure you stated above, this would be very fitting under the circumstances. I wander if Dr. Buell does house calls? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I didn't have a problem with HD. I had a problem with how HD handled the shut down of Buell. If HD distributed Buells though dealers committed and interested in the brand, I don't think you will find a better distribution and service network. | ||
| Badgerbueller1125 |
>>>>Can somebody confirm that Keith Wandell is no longer at Harley Davidson? He is long gone . . retired. Actually Keith's last day at H-D is Friday so I wouldn't go as far as saying he is "long gone". | ||
| Classax |
I do not think it is inaccurate to say that Erik, his Employees, the dealers and owners of these bikes have little recourse. There are only a few very specific paths anyone in that group can take. I have stated before that the person of Erik Buell is not the same as the business or market factors that are and influence EBR. The options are few, one or two if they come through(my personal hope) are nothing short of miraculous and we may have to change the company logo from a winged horse to a phoenix. The other three or four options are not nearly as rosy and the worst could leave us all in legal limbo being waited out by a corporate giant dragging its feet to the court. Its one thing to get a judge to grant you an award, its something wholly different to actually collect it. I don't have all the facts, but the more of them that come to light the more it seems Hero actually may turn out to be a villain. It starts to make sense that EBR goes into receivership instead normal bankruptcy, as this would in affect protect the IP and assets from being seized by creditors along with any final product to include bikes and designs or projects as yet incomplete with the court deciding who gets what. An employee lock out to preserve any further IP exchange would be needful as well since Hero owns part of the company/employee base. The more that comes out the more things seem to add up. IF and that's a big IF, Hero did what it would appears they have done, they have a snowball's chance in Chennai of getting an American judge to approve Hero being able to buy or use any of it. That's just my opinion though. Stranger things have happened though and there is no law that say people have to do the right thing. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I was wondering what Hero has in the US in the way of assets; I suspect not much. Hero opened created a US subsidiary "HMCL NA, Inc." and apparently they purchased the 49.2% of EBR via this company. According to this listing, HMCL NA, Inc. has an office in Owings Mills, Maryland and 1 employee. http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/33195640/Hmcl -Na-Inc-in-Owings-Mills-MD | ||
| Reepicheep |
And there it is. Do I think Erik Buell can do no wrong? Hell no. I'm sure he, like me, has done tons of things that were stupid and wrong and that I wish I could undo. But I will never, ever, ever criticize the man for failing at a noble quest upon which I lacked the courage to even embark upon. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Now I do think that if Harley Davidson was to purchase EBR through the court rulings, the would most likely rename it with their name: Harley Davidson simply to sell to their stockholders and dealer network. There wouldn't be any EBR or Buell name on the motorcycles. We'll see how it all turns out possibly this summer | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'm OK with a HD sport bike if EB is designing and building them. | ||
| Hootowl |
I've said this to EB's face. (Well, not to his face, but on the telephone). "You dance with an elephant you get your toes stepped on." HD and Hero are elephants. What EB needs is a deep pocket investor who isn't interested in running a business or making immediate profit. Someone who wants to see America build the best MC on the planet, whatever it takes. I don't know who that is right now, but I'll tell you this: If I won the Powerball, the next day I'd be banging on EBs front door with a big ass check in my hand. | ||
| Oddball |
I don't live in MD anymore or i'd go look in Owings Mills for their "office". Probably a P.O. box. Too many years of watching MPT as a kid. When I hear Owings Mills I think of MotorWeek. It's Pat Goss! He's their employee! LOL jk Pat, it's probably the one that does their motorcycle reviews. hehehe |
