| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
"Somehow, police in other 1st world nations are able to do their jobs with a MUCH, MUCH lower occurrence of citizens dying." They don't have the gang and delinquency problems that we have. | ||
| Tpoppa |
The US does not have exclusive rights to gangs. Heavy handed police tactics create a backlash of violence against police officers. Police tactics in the US have clearly reached a tipping point. Turn on CNN if you don't believe me. The live show may be coming to a city near you...soon. | ||
| Hootowl |
I do not disagree that the police are heavy handed. What I disagree with is the idea that the police are acting this way in a vacuum. That the people they have to interact with do not influence their behavior. That criminals are not responsible for the current state of relations between the police and the criminals they are charged with arresting. | ||
| Reindog |
Turn on CNN if you don't believe me. You mean the Clinton News Network? You mean the CNN that just televised Hillary's vacuous speech at Columbia a few minutes ago but doesn't give Republicans a similar platform? Do you really believe anything that CNN says where virtually everything supports their political agenda? "Candy....hep me out". | ||
| Tpoppa |
You mean the Clinton News Network?  They had similar footage on Fox news. Try hard to focus on the topic. | ||
| Reindog |
You are the one who brought up CNN which is a form of Pravda to support your position. FoxNews provided commentary over Hillary's "speech" while CNN/MSNBC televised it as if she was the President. Try to stick to the facts, dude. | ||
| Tpoppa |
I do not disagree that the police are heavy handed. What I disagree with is the idea that the police are acting this way in a vacuum. That the people they have to interact with do not influence their behavior. That criminals are not responsible for the current state of relations between the police and the criminals they are charged with arresting. Let me ask you this... In the relationship between police and those whom they arrest, how can systematic change best be implemented? Is it more likely that criminals as a whole can be influenced to change their behavior? Or is it more likely that police tactics can be altered by the DOJ, who have already stated that change is needed. What is in place today clearly isn't working well. We are witnessing a tipping point. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. " - Albert Einstein | ||
| Tpoppa |
You are the one who brought up CNN which is a form of Pravda to support your position. FoxNews provided commentary over Hillary's "speech" while CNN/MSNBC televised it as if she was the President. I am talking about footage of protests & riots in Baltimore. Turn off the sound if you must and draw your own conclusions about the state of the relationship between police and the citizens involved. Sorry, but I don't need opinions spoon fed to me by ANY news agency. | ||
| Reindog |
Or is it more likely that police tactics can be altered by the DOJ, who have already stated that change is needed. You mean the DOJ which indicted the police over Michael Brown before the facts were known? The DOJ is corrupt and racist. We are witnessing a tipping point. We are descending into lawlessness where divided people cry out as victims to be rescued by the the very people who divided them and encouraged them to be victims. Yes, we are at a tipping point. God bless the police. The police protect families especially those who live in high crime areas but somehow never are seen on CNN. | ||
| Reindog |
I saw the police handcuffed by the wonderful Democratic leadership on Monday. Riots ensued which enabled our Dear Leader to bleat that we need to spend more money to create jobs and to implement his Machiavellian policies. Newsflash: government does not and can not create sustainable jobs except to bloat the bureaucracy which robs the taxpayers and diminishes America. Change will come when the government policies cease to make it profitable to split up the family. Change will come when people take responsibility for themselves. Change will come when families fervently insist on education for work in trades and professional enterprises. Change will come when we lower taxes, especially business taxes, deregulate, deregulate, deregulate, and become friendly to business rather than their adversary. The Baltimore riots have nothing to do with the police this week. Something bad happened to Freddie Gray and the investigation needs to complete and take appropriate action. | ||
| Tpoppa |
You mean the DOJ which indicted the police over Michael Brown before the facts were known? The DOJ is corrupt and racist. Wow! Your grasp of facts is impressive  The DOJ indicted the police over Michael Brown?!?!? Really? What was the date this indictment was filed? I must have missed it. "DOJ will not prosecute former Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson" http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/04/doj-wil l-not-prosecute-former-ferguson-police-officer-dar ren-wilson/ | ||
| Reindog |
Wow! Your grasp of facts is impressive You have selective memory over Holder's DOJ actions before they were forced to retreat. Care to try again? | ||
| Tpoppa |
You may personally not like Holder. But there was no DOJ indictment for Ferguson. Criminal or Civil. The title of the thread is Baltimore. Not Ferguson, Holder, or Hillary. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Baltimore, Ferguson, et al. are the result of 50+ years of concerted effort to create a permanent underclass fully dependant upon those seeking to create this underclass. This is all according to plan. Life as corrupt art played out for 24/7 voyeurism. Cloward-Piven at its best. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm Public accusation is not indictment, legally. True. It is part of this regimes observed policy to damage police reputation for political purposes. It was Holder, and his Party, who fanned the flames in Mississippi. It was the Mayor of Baltimore who ordered the police to let the rioters destroy property. As to the case of the fellow who died in custody, there is an investigation underway. Police are citizens and must be subject to the same laws. If Gray was killed or allowed to die by the police the guilty party or parties should be prosecuted and imprisoned. Period. That is no excuse for riots. There is no excuse for riots. One of these days a brick is going in a shop window and buckshot is coming out. The pity is the brick thrower probably won't be the only one hurt. That's not an endorsement, that's a prediction. Some poor family guy is going to get caught by barbarians in his car with his family, freak and run down his tormentors. Odds are very high his or her car will get stuck on bodies, & the family inside dragged out and murdered. Again. Not a suggestion, a rational fear. Read the essay on Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs. | ||
| Reindog |
Everything I have written in this thread is 100% apropos to the discussion. Perhaps Fat Bastard said it more succinctly. The cause of our demise is the Democratic Party's decimation of America over the past 50 years ever since the War on Poverty with over a trillion dollars thrown down the toilet in the creation of a permanent underclass that is a monster whose appetite is insatiable. Hillary Clinton fanned the flames this morning by throwing Trayvon Martin in the mix of injustice. The Democrats made Baltimore. Let this be remembered when the bill becomes due. | ||
| Sifo |
I hear lots of political talk about 'taking things back' and being over due for some kind revolution. Maybe this is what it looks like. This is likely what it looks like. This is what is being discussed by those who have mentioned revolution. These are the useful idiots, the cannon fodder, that are being used by those in power to stir the pot of revolution. They however will NOT get the revolution that they have in mind. I'm not sure it will be the revolution I have in mind either. Personally, I see three sides to this revolution. One side tends to be well armed. The side we are seeing today, has been very restricted in arming themselves. The third side, I'm quite sure is hoping the military will blindly follow them and not their oath to the Constitution. Don't kid yourself though. If it's really push to fighting, it's going to look a lot worse than Baltimore. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Reindog, try $22,000,000,000,000 spent since 1964 on the "war on poverty". The War on Poverty After 50 Years | ||
| Court |
I had grave reservations about Eric Holder then I met him, here at Columbia, one day and listened to him for 2 hours. It was once I knew him, his background and how he got where he is today that I decided I just didn't like him very much. But . . that's just my opinion. I have no opinion on CNN. Like most the world, I seldom watch it. CNN's viewership is so low it's pretty much an insignificant bump on any graph. | ||
| Sifo |
I read that Baltimore has been under Democratic control since something like 1967. They are in a region that has generally thrived during that period too. What went wrong with this pocket? | ||
| Pwnzor |
In the relationship between police and those whom they arrest, how can systematic change best be implemented? OK, time for me to chime in. Suspects need to comply with officer's commands. Period. Cops don't just go around shooting and tazing people who comply with them. It simply does not happen. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
As a general rule, the black community has been decimated over the past 50 years while other demographic groups have not suffered the same negative impacts (or experienced these negative impacts to the same extent). If you see a community fail this spectacularly after redistributing $22T, you either have failed policies or your policies are working exactly as planned. I believe it to be the latter. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Another way of looking at it: We have currently spent $1.6T on wars since 2001. Assuming the rate of spending is the same, after 50 years we would have spent $5.33T. So we could have fought FOUR Iraq Wars AND FOUR Afghanistan Wars for 50 YEARS for what we have spend on the "war on poverty". Let that sink in. | ||
| Hootowl |
"In the relationship between police and those whom they arrest, how can systematic change best be implemented?" Good question. I don't know the answer. But if your answer involves ensuring that the police don't arrest people who resist being arrested, often violently, then I believe you don't know the answer either. Perhaps a media campaign. Hey kids, if you're being arrested, don't shoot at, bite, kick, punch, or spit on the police. You may get hog tied and stuffed in the back of a police van without a seatbelt. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Might add that being a multi-arrest, repeat offender might get you rougher than normal handling. | ||
| Henshao |
I thought the National Guard was federal now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
National Guard answers to the state Governor as CIC. | ||
| Hootowl |
Another forbidden word. http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/29/us/baltimore-riots-t hug-n-word/index.html | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I grew up in the suburbs of Baltimore City. I've spent a lot of time there. So, my observation. The news media portrayed the violence as if the entire city of Baltimore was in flames. Barring a few sporadic incidences, the mayhem was contained to a few blocks in the western district of the city. The craziness that occurred downtown was only because the protesters from the west side held a rally at City Hall, which is only a few blocks from the Inner Harbor area, and then agitators directed the crowd to Camden Yards with the intention of disrupting the Orioles game. The poor blacks in the city live predominately in areas west, east and south. Of those areas, the west side is by far the worst of the lot. Even ghetto blacks from other areas will tell you they are crazy on the west side (HBO's, The Wire, was set there) which brings me to my point. All the poor black areas of the city have high crime and all come into contact with the Police frequently but it appears only the west side is rioting and looting. Why is that? Clearly, something more than just police brutality and poverty are at play here. In my opinion, the difference is the blacks on the west side are culturally different from the blacks in other parts of the city. The criminal element is all encompassing and has laid siege to that community. It's akin to the West Bank of Israel. | ||
| Hootowl |
Sad that the politics of the people in charge have let the city deteriorate to that point. Witness the effort to not call a thug a thug, and other politically correct BS. It's not your fault. You're a victim. Blame someone else. Stay down. Stay poor. Stay dependent. Keep us in power. |
