| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
I agree. I love every bike EBR has created thus far. I couldn't justify (or afford) purchasing any of them. The Buell community is NOT a Ducati community. There are far more of us who have grease under our fingernails than doctorates on the walls. It's part of the reason dealers didn't really appreciate Buell buyers. A Harley person buying a CVO doesn't ask for much of a discount. A Buell buyer nearly ALWAYS asks for $$$ off the MSRP. Not to say that we're cheap, but $15,000 is a lot to spend. EBR is a racing organization. Consumers are invited to purchase the product of that racing organization. That's great! I don't race. I'll never be a racer. I wouldn't know what to do with 180 HP if you gave it to me. It's not that the RS, RX and SX weren't fantastic motorcycles. They are simply more than I have any business owning. I bought my first Buell because it was unique, it was different. I also bought it because it had soul. It wasn't refined. It wasn't an appliance. It shook like a 70's muscle car at idle and begged to be flogged. I want to recapture that spirit. I want a minimal bike that is two wheels and a motor with a spot for the rider that handles like no other and provides a connection between the soul of the rider and the soul of the bike. Maybe someone will build this bike one day. These come close:    | ||
| Jon |
Court and Fat Bastarday. Or is it Fort Bastard Or Fit Bastard? I don't believe the EBR's can be promoted ahead of more affordable Buells made in the spirit of the original. Like it or not, the original animals, even the xbs, had a rude and muscular appeal. Very American vibe. Round three must go back to the drawing board. While Erik always seemed to be under attack by a disaffected few, the vast majority of people who rode them, loved them for what they were. And there are still lots of people who admire and seek the unique expression of motorcycling that the tubers and xbs were and are. My S2 get's attention where ever I go it seems. Our club, while having shrunk in recent years is growing again. We have Buellers coming from Vallejo, San Jose, the Peninsula and for a while, Mexico, not to mention more local areas. Our Mexican brother is a great guy named Andres, a business man splitting his time between us and Tijuana. I found his nicked up S3 parked on the street, went back to my truck to get an ASBN business card to stick on the bike, but when I got back to his bike he was there in the flesh, so I talked to him. He was elated to meet me as he heard about us (ASBN) but didn't know where to find us. He has come to our meetings 4 times now. One of our more recent non-Buell riding members came to love the Buells after continually seeing them and hearing them at ASBN and finally decided to get his own, traveling to Oregon to buy a Citycross and rode it back to the Bay Area. He and I rode tonight with another ASBN-er, swilling coffee, beer and pizza. The culture is out there and just needs to be called. But not as it pertains to the new new new breed; the old grit grizzle tubers and the XB lines are out there to be had and that makes better sense to most people. Or any new Buell that is affordable. My story about the guy with the S3 is a microcosm of what needs to happen on a larger scale. Person to person bike to bike interface. Stories in Cycle World only go so far. Take the bikes to Cannery Row during world super bike at Laguna Seca. And Quail and whatever other venues are out there. BTW, our club will have three Buells and a rare Vetter Mystery Ship at Quail this year. All American made, BTW. You need an evangelist(s), not some dude with a marketing degree. You need physical presence and a person who in his person exemplifies the spirit of the Buell. Mass centralization is nifty and we are proud of Erik for that and his other accomplishments, but the technical slide show comes after the smokey bong-hit of Buell has been drawn deep into the soul of the seeker. Again, the visual, the auditory, the thing. It’s a shame other manufacturer’s are outfitting their new “scramblers” with Buell character. A world gone mad. As a fan, this is frustrating to behold. (Message edited by Jon on April 28, 2015) | ||
| Ljm |
For my part, I get the appeal of the buells. I had 8 of them over the years. My favorite was the X1. And they never ceased to amaze me with their handling, and except the Scg, comfort. That seat was like a milk crate. It was about as uncomfortable as my rigid ironhead. That being said, they are about as different from the EBR's as my old, ratty forerunner is from my duramax. Miss the nostalgic feel, but like the new rig. | ||
| Hughlysses |
From this month's Cycle News. If Hero does what this article suggests (if they even CAN do it), I think they will rue the day:  | ||
| Slaughter |
I can't help but smell something foul coming from Cathcart's statements about Hero and EBR. Have to wait to see how it shakes out. Not left with a good feeling about HERO. | ||
| Steeleagle |
 | ||
| Stevel |
Steve, Your concern should be everyone's. Cathcart's prediction is spot on. I believe Hero's intentions were well flagged early on, which can only mean Erik was sleeping at the switch. His lack of business sense has doomed all the owners of 1125s and 1190s, not to mention his asperations. Merry Christmas all. Further, if Cathcart's prediction comes true as I think it will, Hero's actions can only be considered a national insult. | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
With all that's going on I don't know whether to shit or go blind.. I think I'll just close one eye and fart. I tried to make predictions when "Hardley" shut down BMC, and was totally blind sided with the out come later on. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Why do you say he was asleep at the switch Stevel? Did he reject the $20,000,000 you offered EBR to finance operations in order to take the Hero $20,000,000 infusion? Is that why you say he screwed up? What do people think a business runs on? Good intentions? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
After the smoke clears from the attorney scrum, the only thing you have is trust. Is there any indication that HERO is in breach of contract? If so, there would be legal recourse. It doesn't appear that this is the case. I don't buy the "asleep at the switch" claim either. We've seen, with fairly recent history, of a company deep sixing a division in apparent contravention of profit opportunities. I don't think there is any way to fully protect against a party to an agreement who is acting within the confines of the contract while at the same time is operating in a manner unfair to the other party to the contract. What if the details are that Erik was pressed by HERO to give up sensitive technical information and he refused precipitating the financial disunion. Would that be "asleep at the switch" or not? The plates would keep spinning but you've given away more than you intended to keep them spinning. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
What if the details are that Erik was pressed by HERO to give up sensitive technical information and he refused precipitating the financial disunion. I could completely envision Mr. Buell doing just that. After getting fu@ked by H-D, I'm guessing is tolerance for bullsh!t is minimal. But time will tell and only Court will know the story....to tell it "someday". | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I would think that after the HD stuff he wouldnt have sold 49% of his company in the first place. "Fiercely Independent" isnt selling (almost) half your company to another company. If he was pressured to give up sensitive information then it is only his fault for allowing a company in that close on his business. Sorry, but it is what it is. If they didn't have such a stake in EBR then they would have no leverage against him. But, I get it, people will say "well where was YOUR 20M to donate to get them going?" or some non-sense. Also, I dont see how he doomed 1125 owners in anything he did as EBR, that was a Buell product, not EBR | ||
| Reindog |
What a bunch of yentas. Everyone acts like an expert. Fact: We virtually have no information other than EBR filed for bankruptcy under section 128. Fact: All I can tell is that there are NO other material facts made public yet. Fact: Do NOT take as fact what you read from press releases and very old articles. Yet y'all drone on and on and on about Erik Buell this, Erik Buell that.... Y'all are most welcome to drone on but that is in fact, all you are doing. This thread reminds me of a flock of hens picking at the ground aroung their henhouse. Wait until there are material facts. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yes. We will. Do you honestly believe people with a lot of money are falling over each other to make loans to a startup motorcycle manufacturer? EBR's choices for financing were likely limited to the following three sources: 1) His retirement, and I bet he spent pretty much all of it and is on the list of creditors EBR "owes". 2) Hero Motorcorp. 3) The Mafia. Unless you chose to insert yourself between 1 and 2, what do you think he could use to build new motorcycles? Unicorn farts? | ||
| Crusty |
Wait until there are material facts. What!!?! Are you saying that people should let facts get in the way of their opinions? Isn't that against internet protocol? | ||
| Nobuell |
The EBR closure has also stuck it to many racers. We are not as screwed as the the 1190 owners, but defiantly are left in a lurch. Things a simple as replacement front disc / hardware, wear guides for chain drive kits, Chain drive wheel spacers, race pads, ECMs, etc. will have to be fabricated or outsourced. I personally have a big issue if EBR went into receivership to protect only his interest leaving everybody else high and dry again. Only time will tell the truth. Meanwhile folks are left fending for themselves. | ||
| Reindog |
No one forced anyone to buy an EBR. A risk was taken and the outcome is now in doubt. That is life. Get over it. I have no doubt that I have personally lost substantial amounts of investment money when I made a risky decision....and lost. It stings but you accept it. One could have made a different decision but chose not to. Get back on your feet and stand like a man. If you simply can't, then reject Erik Buell and vote for Hillary. | ||
| Stevel |
Why do you say he was asleep at the switch Stevel? Did he reject the $20,000,000 you offered EBR to finance operations in order to take the Hero $20,000,000 infusion? Is that why you say he screwed up? Bill, What the hell are you talking about? Erik sold half of EBR for a pipe dream, then put himself spectacularly in debt and he did so with some pretty smart businessmen. All they had to do was stroke his ego and then screw him out of his own company. Hero could have gone anywhere to find really talented engineers. They have the money to buy any talent they wanted and in fact they did! They are now building their own FI systems in India. EBR was easy pickings. So in answer to your question, the reason Erik screwed up was that his ego got in the way of his common sense, as Hero screwed him to the floor and pissed all over him. | ||
| Snacktoast |
Stevel, It's incredible, from my view anyway, that you have ALL of the information about the situation, since no one else does. Bravo, sir.  I'm always amazed that people are willing to spout off about a given topic on the internet and show everyone just how uninformed they are.  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
@Stevel--Did Erik B steal your wife or something? What's your deal? | ||
| Court |
remind me never to come here for advise or support . . . . Wow. Saying " but it is what it is" when you have no clue what "is" is . . .well, that lines been used. You don't call the plays from the stands of a football game . . . you don't tell A-Rod when to steal 2nd. . . you sit, you sit and watch . . trusting the the folks in the game are not stupid. It's a bit surprising that folks who have, for so many years, watched Erik Buell operate can come here and throw thee types of things about. | ||
| Snacktoast |
It's a bit surprising that folks who have, for so many years, watched Erik Buell operate can come here and throw thee types of things about Come on, Court...It's the internet. Anything goes without regard to fallout, reason, or repercussion. | ||
| Malott442 |
Are waders proper attire whilst enjoying popcorn? Although I hate reruns, I'm going to keep tuned to the station. I think this is my third time saying this, but-- Bite your tongues and be patient. A few of you are making bad beef for yourselves. Your negativity is contagious, so think before you type. And it might behoove the people waiting on parts to contact someone directly instead of waiting through the pipeline. I have a gut feeling that someone like Mr. Buell wouldn't let his racers sit on the sidelines over parts. That help would need to be under the radar possibly, so..... | ||
| Tpoppa |
If Hero could pull the funding without legal recourse. It means the funding was not contractually guaranteed. It could also mean EBR had to meet certain requirements, spelled out in the contract with Hero, to secure the next round of funding. | ||
| Macbuell |
If EBR had a good business model with projectable, scalable growth he could have gotten investment from any number of venture capital or private equity groups. That's how they make their money ... by investing in growing companies. If he didn't have projectable, scalable growth, then the writing was on the wall for this outcome. In the end, the problem really has to do with his chosen business. It is highly dependent on capital and capital is hard for any small company / start up to come by. Which means he probably was not able to project scalable growth without huge amounts on capital infusion. That would scare away most investors except someone like Hero who has more to gain from the relationship other than just the success of EBR ... like entrance into a new, very large market. They say desperation is the mother of invention. That's true but, sometimes, as in the case with HD and maybe now with Hero, it can lead to questionable partnerships. | ||
| Hughlysses |
If EBR had a good business model with projectable, scalable growth he could have gotten investment from any number of venture capital or private equity groups. That's how they make their money ... by investing in growing companies. There's some interesting commentary on current investment strategies in "the Ragged Edge" (see thread on this page). Hey- how about some POSITIVE wild-ass speculation for a change? What if Hero, Polaris, and Harley Davidson got in a 3-way bidding war for EBR? Hero because they've got plenty of cash and they've publicly expressed their desire to own all of EBR, Polaris because their sales are up and they seem to be branching out from just cruisers, and Harley, because Wandell is long-gone and the current CEO, Matt Levatich, has a degree in mechanical engineering (NOT a bean-counter). He's ridden motorcycles since he was 8 and very interestingly launched the Buell brand in Europe. Hmmm......  | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"Matt Levatich, has a degree in mechanical engineering (NOT a bean-counter). He's ridden motorcycles since he was 8 and very interestingly launched the Buell brand in Europe. " Knew Wandell was gone, but didnt know who was running the show or their pedigree, this could be really awesome for HD. Kudos to them for getting a biker in the captains chair. | ||
| Henshao |
If Hero could pull the funding without legal recourse. It means the funding was not contractually guaranteed. It could also mean EBR had to meet certain requirements, spelled out in the contract with Hero, to secure the next round of funding. "We still have not received document XYZ." | ||
| Rubberdown |
Maybe more info coming: http://www.amcn.com.au/news/1504/ebr-receivership- is-part-of-the-plan!/ | ||
| Reepicheep |
Stevel, my point, which I am either too stupid to make or which you are too stupid to get, is that its not like people were falling over each other to loan money to a start up entrepreneurial motorcycle company. EBR was a BHAG from day one. Buell was a BHAG from day one. EBR likely had a choice between rolling the dice with Hero, or shutting down the following weekend. You need more experience with small businesses. You apparently have no idea what kind of insane risks have to be taken to keep one alive from day to day. |
