| Author | Message | ||
     Moshaholic2 |
When HERO came on board I spoke to Erik and other members of the EBR race program at numerous AMA events at the time. According to them (at the time), HERO wanted to race. They lacked the tech and bike or even the knowledge of how to run a race team. They had observers at all the events to get a grasp on what it takes to race and win in superbike racing. my guess is Hero still has it out for Honda, and wants to beat them (not only in sales but on a track too) yes, honda isn't in AMA or even really WSBK... but thats were you start. I still think HERO wants EBR. | ||
| Tpoppa |
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/oped/erik-buell-ra cing-receivership-explained/ It is entirely possible that Erik Buell himself could have a role in EBR (something you can see between the lines of Buell’s recent statement), assuming the company continues — this should bolster the spirits of Erik Buell fans. That being said though, it is just as possible that the carcass of EBR will be picked by endemic and non-endemic vultures, leaving behind nothing that resembles Erik Buell Racing. There are a lot of paths this story can take over the next few months. Surely everyone involved is weighing the power of the Buell brand, the success of EBR’s dealerships in moving product, the results of EBR in the AMA and WSBK series, and of course what the cold hard financials say about the motorcycle business. Anything can happen at this point; and as always, time will tell. Stay tuned. Well said. Hero may become 100% owner. A new group could emerge. Assets could be sold piece by piece. Today, anyone who claims to know what the outcome will be is lying. I doubt the entire story will ever come to light. The 'truth' is simply a matter of perspective. | ||
| Court |
Be mindful the article, cited above, is 2 years old.
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| Buewulf |
"If letting go all the employees, locking the doors, and cutting off your dealership network is "maximizing the value" of EBR, then I just don't see a return route." The fact that they jerked the rug out from under the stakeholders implies that EBR was bleeding cash at an alarming rate. That doesn't necessarily mean that the the receiver thinks this is the best way to maximize value: it just may reflect the realty that with no one to put cash into the business, closure is the only route that can be taken at this point. Still, like you say, that makes a return route highly unlikely. However, there are some curiosities out there, such as Hero keeping the race team going that make you wonder. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Be mindful the article, cited above, is 2 years old. That's true, Court but it goes to show HERO's mindset. I think it's obvious they coveted EBR. They lusted for the perimeter brake and the fuel in frame...lol | ||
| Court |
I'd go along with that . . . . I'm certain that time and tide will reveal more. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I hadn't thought of it in a while, until I watched the trailer for "the Ragged Edge" (see thread on the Quickboard), but there's a shot of the sign in the EBR factory that shows the EBR logo and says "Fiercely Independent". Hmmm..... | ||
| Sifo |
When HERO came on board I spoke to Erik and other members of the EBR race program at numerous AMA events at the time. According to them (at the time), HERO wanted to race. They lacked the tech and bike or even the knowledge of how to run a race team. They had observers at all the events to get a grasp on what it takes to race and win in superbike racing. my guess is Hero still has it out for Honda, and wants to beat them (not only in sales but on a track too) yes, honda isn't in AMA or even really WSBK... but thats were you start. I still think HERO wants EBR. This may be the best argument I've seen yet that there is hope for EBR. I'm not the least bit convinced that a V twin is the way to beat Honda though, much less the EBR 1190. While the EBR is probably one of the best street versions of a big race bike, it really wasn't getting it done on the track. But I'm just talking out of my arse. Time to wait and see what happens. Hoping for the best for all involved, but I don't think it will mean anything to me other than an emotional connection. | ||
| Hughlysses |
OK, based on what's been posted, this is my current working THEORY on how EBR wound up in receivership. Note, this theory, if combined with $5, might buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. -EBR has been doing engineering work for Hero independent of the EBR motorcycle business for the last ~2 years. -The contract for this work ran out recently. When it came time to renew the contract, Hero said "You know, we'd just rather buy controlling interest in EBR and then the engineers would work for us. Here's a check for $10M (or whatever)." -Erik (being fiercely independent) said "No thanks, I'm not ready to sell yet." -Hero said "OK- no engineering work for you!" -Erik said "Fine, see you in court!" and puts the company in receivership. Maybe Hero buys EBR out of receivership; maybe someone else does.  What do you think? | ||
| Ljm |
My theory of your theory, Hugh is THAT EBR overstretched reaching for profitability and it didn't come fast enough. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
EBR overstretched reaching for profitability and it didn't come fast enough. The problem with that line of thought is EBR was a corporation with a board of directors two of which were appointed by Hero. Did the board not know the financial situation of the company? I would find that hard to believe. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Larry makes a very good and fundamental point. If EBR had been profitable, they could have told Hero to pack sand. (Remember this is a THEORY.) I'm guessing EBR was banking on the engineering contracts from Hero keeping them going until motorcycle sales had picked up to the point to make them profitable, perhaps based on verbal agreements with Hero. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"but there's a shot of the sign in the EBR factory that shows the EBR logo and says "Fiercely Independent". Hmmm....." "-Erik (being fiercely independent) said "No thanks, I'm not ready to sell yet." " Fiercely independent wouldnt usually have some huge company own almost half of your company. I love the FI logo/motto, but it just wasnt/aint true. Im waiting on all this stuff that Court mentions to come out. Im curious to find out what happened and, more importantly, whats HAPPENING. I want to see EB do well, be on top, but I just dont have a lot of faith at the moment. Two shut downs in 5 years is rough, but I know he's got a lot of fight in him. | ||
| Jon |
I'm sure that due to legal concerns no one is going to drop in that actually knows what's going on and enlighten us. We will just gave to sit here flicking boogers at the wall until news breaks. May the winds of change ________________________ (fill in the blank) | ||
| Hootowl |
I'm out of boogers. | ||
| Midknyte |
>I'm out of boogers give us time, we'll be flinging poo | ||
| Jon |
Alright, I'll go. May the winds of change kick all of our asses | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I keep reading who would want to buy EBR besides Hero? I think that's a good question and here is my take on it: I personally feel the EBR motorcycle name has been tarnished after two plant closing a and the failure to have any real success at the racetrack with the V-Twin motors. But racing really where the motorcycle business lies anyway. With their factory so small and efficiently run, I think they could use that as a means to expand their line of motorcycles to more entry level lower priced motorcycles, super motards, dual sport, sport touring, and even motor scooters! YES I said motor scooters! They far out sell any crotch rocket or naked sport motorcycles out in the marketplace! When gas was high, dealers were having trouble keeping motor scooters on the sales floor! I've actually wanted to buy a motor scooter for a couple of years now but just can't find one I like yet There is a large motorcycle dealer just five miles away from where I live that sells Honda, Yahama, and Suzuki. He sells lots of Goldwings, FJR's, ST1300,and lots of motor scooters. His crotch rockets such as the Hayabusa and R1's just sit there all summer because nobody wants those styles of motorcycles anymore! That fad has come and gone! They discount the hell out of them to move them off the sales floor. So when your trying to build a company building motorcycles that only fit a small nitch of the actual motorcycle riders, it's hard to survive! How many remember the first Buell fire sale in 2009? Did you see any extremely discounted XB12X's? There wasn't any at the 4 closest dealers by me! But yet they were all selling 1125R's and CR's for around $5,495 and even having trouble getting that much for them! Those were available for several months before they dried up! McHenry HD & Buell had about three red 1125CR's for almost a year. My point is Erik then opened a motorcycle company trying to sell motorcycles that were' popular! Sadly I feel EBR is finished as we know it today! It's ready for a new style of motorcycle with a new name! | ||
| Sifo |
Erik Buell Touring!  | ||
| Reepicheep |
I've been around a lot of friends and family that run small to moderate businesses. The assumption that there is a carefully laid plan for these kinds of companies is just wrong. There is a strategy for sure, and a dream, but at MANY points in a businesses lifecycle (like maybe every month for 3 years, and two or three times a year through the whole first decade) its not unusual to need a hail mary pass to work to be able to open the doors again tomorrow morning. Some big contract to come through, some big supplier to give you an extra month on an invoice, some kind of stupid expensive loan to come through, some kind of major staff adjustment, or some combination of the above. It is insanely hard to start and run a business and grow it into something solid. There is no easy fruit left to pick. That's why I get so frustrated when the tax code and class warfare group see somebody who did it and got rich as a result as a golden goose to go put in a roaster. The odds were so stacked against them, and they had to give up so much to make it and work so hard... let them enjoy the fruits of that sacrifice and keep the goose laying eggs. But anyway, for a small business, situation normal is all fouled up. | ||
| Tpoppa |
One of problems of buying EBR is that they are cash flow Negative. The brand has been tarnished and there is little if any ROI in producing any more 1190 models. What pieces are attractive to a buyer? Engineering staff? Why not just hire them directly? Specific patents? Possibly, but I doubt there will be a line of bidders for the ZTL. Future models not yet built? Business of supplying parts to 1190 owners? I REALLY hope a buyer steps up to support these owners. | ||
| Jaimec |
I think there's a basic misunderstanding here of the difference between a "Theory" and a "Hypothesis." But do carry on... | ||
| Buewulf |
I think there's a basic misunderstanding here of the difference between a "Theory" and a "Hypothesis." Well, even a hypothesis should be testable, so brainfart is probably a more appropriate label for what we are all offering up. | ||
| Hootowl |
Hypothesis is what you test to prove, or disprove, a theory. | ||
| Buewulf |
"What pieces are attractive to a buyer? " I think that is $-20M dollar question. The intangibles (brand, intellectual property) have no value. Nobody is going to want the tooling and production assets for motorcycles that consumers rejected. Does anyone know how many 1190s were produced? Doesn't seem like there would be enough critical mass for anyone to seriously get into a parts business for 1190s. | ||
| Hughlysses |
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| Xb9er |
Were 1190's a product that people rejected or didn't know existed? ZTL brake, funny story. The day my bolt died, that morning I rode my bike to my weekend job, a customer came in that I'm pretty close with (only see him at there or on the mtn. bike trail) saw my bike and was asking questions about it. He asked about how the front brake felt. I tossed him the key and told him to take it for a ride and to find out for himself. When he came back (he owns a 08 zx10r) and said, "wow, that front brake really digs in." I told him the background behind the design and how it works really well but a lot of folks talked down about it because it is unconventional and probably in most cases those people probably never even rode the bike to see how well it works. He couldn't agree more and couldn't understand why those people would trash the braking system. Long story short, he really liked the ZTL. We need more motorcyclist like my friend Cliff. | ||
| Xb9er |
And no, he didn't know EBR existed until I told him. This was three weeks ago. | ||
| Tpoppa |
ZTL brake, funny story. The day my bolt died, that morning I rode my bike to my weekend job, a customer came in that I'm pretty close with (only see him at there or on the mtn. bike trail) saw my bike and was asking questions about it. He asked about how the front brake felt. I tossed him the key and told him to take it for a ride and to find out for himself. When he came back (he owns a 08 zx10r) and said, "wow, that front brake really digs in." I told him the background behind the design and how it works really well but a lot of folks talked down about it because it is unconventional and probably in most cases those people probably never even rode the bike to see how well it works. He couldn't agree more and couldn't understand why those people would trash the braking system. Long story short, he really liked the ZTL. We need more motorcyclist like my friend Cliff. http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/oped/erik-buell-ra cing-receivership-explained/ Should a buyer not arise, the receiver will begin selling EBR assets. This means liquidating any bikes that remain, selling whatever real property the company owns, and beginning to look for buyers to Buell’s IP — for all the talk of how innovative Erik Buell is (a premise I reject, outright), this would be the ultimate quantification of that genius. The IP is perhaps the hardest part of EBR to sell, as the list of potential buyers are limited in number, and as one astute observer once wrote, “[Buell] wasted all his energy developing alternative solutions to mundane technical problems that yielded no appreciable benefit in performance over traditional bike systems.” How much is the ZTL braking system worth? The free market is about to decide. I realize that is not a popular opinion on Badweb. After 15+ years of ZTL development, is it really any better then an off the shelf Brembo Monobloc setup? Is the reduced weight really an advantage on the street or track when you consider sheer stopping power is somewhat reduced? Most importantly of all, has the ZTL gained acceptance in the market? Among a majority of moto journalists? | ||
| Whistler |
(Message edited by whistler on April 24, 2015) |
