| Author | Message | ||
     Rick_a |
"I" haven't fallen into squat. My AR is my favorite and most versatile rifle. | ||
| Rick_a |
Court, in the world of military weapons it is considered an intermediate cartridge, where 7.62x51 is a medium caliber, and .50BMG is heavy. 5.56x45 is considered "light" in machine gun terms. It's obviously plenty enough to work, otherwise such weapons would not be primary infantry arms. It's funny in that .223 is a cartridge that Fudds consider anemic and useless, and the mass media and anti gun factions portray it as a killer of worlds. | ||
| Aesquire |
Rick.... you see the problem. The 5.56 is a varmint round. But advertised as high powered. Historically the 30-30 was among the first high powered rounds as it transitioned from black powder to smokeless. Technically the change from approx. 1000 fps. To 2000 fps. ( more or less....) Most would consider the .30-06 a high power round. The 5.56 NATO is fast enough but it's a bit small and was developed long after the marketing phrase "high powered" was coined and no longer used. My statement is based on your distinction that a semiautomatic is somehow different. YOU have a clue what you are talking about. THEY don't. ... and deliberately want to fool people by making ancient technology ( before cars and planes ) seem new and frightening. And they want people to confuse machine guns ( as carried by soldiers and gestapo ) with varmint guns. | ||
| Sifo |
I always thought "high powered rifles" to be pretty much defined by using a necked down case. As Aesquire mentioned the 30-30 was among the earliest examples of this. Of course using this definition winds up including a rifle chambered for .17 HMR. For that sized bullet, it is a high powered round though. You still need to choose a caliber appropriate for the intended purpose. | ||
| Aesquire |
It was velocity that defined high power. At the time .30 was small bore. .45 govt. Was Normal. | ||
| Sifo |
Didn't high velocity come with necked down casings? .45-70 was a very popular rifle cartridge. It was a straight wall casing though, and low velocity. Also used in pistols so you only had to carry one cartridge in the field. It's hard to get the velocity with a straight wall casing. | ||
| Aesquire |
That is a bit of a misconception. The velocity increase came with smokeless powder and a second....lesser increase in powders post WW2. (when the US went from the .30-306 to the .308..... a shortened '-06 case with improved powder and nearly identical ballistics ) You can easily load a .45-70 to high velocity. It's a black powder cartridge and there's plenty of room. You will however destroy most of the original guns made for it and risk serious injury, blinding, and death. That's why Marlin made the belted .450round so that it would not fit in old guns like the relatively weak trapdoor Springfield. "High power" as a marketing term and definition is pretty obsolete. A good rule of thumb is .30-30 speed & power levels. This includes the .460 S&W which qualifies in a revolver as a high power rifle round as seen in the early 20th century.... So arguing about it ( like I am here) is a bit foolish. | ||
| Sifo |
You are right. I should have said it was hard to get the velocity with a straight wall casing. Modern powders have certainly changed all that. Wasn't cordite kind of an in between stage? I think that was still in use during WWII. I'm far from an authority on this though. Still, most of the necked cartridges were developed before modern smokeless powders. As you point out, it is possible to charge an old straight wall cartridge with modern powder and get those high velocities, but you had better use it in a weapon that has been properly engineered for the pressures involved. Arguing about it foolish? Certainly if you let yourself get all wound up about it. Other than that, I know I'm likely to learn something from "arguing" about it. Is that foolish? Perhaps inconsequential. | ||
| Reepicheep |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improved_Military_Rif le Great read if you are a gun geek... | ||
| Aesquire |
Trail Boss was developed when the cowboy action stuff got going. The old black powder cartridges like the .45 Colt can easily be double charged with modern powder.... and the classic Colt 1873 Will disassemble itself if you do..... So they make a powder that is a volume filling washer shape to duplicate the old pressures with less risk of overcharging. Like I have said...gun geek....computer geek.... thousands of a...... where the switches are and how they work. It's important in the real world but unless you're an enthusiast. .......a bit boring. Endless amusement & learning if you are. | ||
| Court |
The greatest threat to Second Amendment Rights remains PURE STUPIDITY. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/ 2014/08/27/firing-range-instructor-hands-9-year-ol d-an-uzi-now-hes-dead/?tid=hp_mm | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yup. Most times, stupid is just stupid. Sometimes stupid is tragic. My prayers for the family of the man and for the girl involved. I've taught kids to shoot. It's already sketchy enough with a handgun with just one round in it. A good reminder that you can't be too careful. | ||
| Hootowl |
The poor girl. This will scar her for life. NOT her fault, but she won't see it that way. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If the deceased range instructor could somehow utter one last word, I'm sure it would be to that 9 year old girl, and that's exactly what he would say. This was NOT your fault. I hope she can somehow believe it someday... | ||
| Sifo |
I packed up and left in a hurry once when someone was teaching their kid to shoot a 9mm pistol. He could barely hold on to it. Really scary! The range I go to now tends to send the regulars to one range. Unknowns go to a separate range. Kind of nice, unless you are one of the unknowns. | ||
| Chauly |
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2014/06/07 /shocker-npr-guns-made-civil-rights-movement-possi ble#ixzz349tZH0Vl | ||
| Reepicheep |
Just ordered that book for the Kindle. Looks like a really interesting read, and I was looking for a good history book. Thanks Chauly. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/386812/anti- gun-billionaires-frank-miniter | ||
| Ducbsa |
NYT admits "assault weapon" myth: http://bearingarms.com/30-years-lies-ny-times-admi ts-assault-weapons-myth/ | ||
| Blake |
The Marxists never give up. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/10/01 /CDC-FBI-Bicycle-And-Falling-Deaths-Far-Exceed-Dea ths-From-Mass-Shootings http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/09/29 /FBI-More-People-Murdered-With-Fire-Than-In-Mass-S hootings | ||
| Rick_a |
That's a shocker. | ||
| Blake |
Racist gun control nazis... http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/09/29 /FBI-More-People-Murdered-With-Fire-Than-In-Mass-S hootings | ||
| Aesquire |
http://jpfo.org/ Never Again. | ||
| Blake |
Oops wrong link. | ||
| Indybuell |
Excellent Video series on Backup Guns. http://youtu.be/hsW18fpZ3Jg | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm going to post this here, it doesn't really belong here, but we don't have a thread ( nor do I want one ) for people I can only describe as malignant F876s. Some sadistic animals like to hand a small person or it seems, especially a slightly built woman, a gun to shoot for THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR LIVES, that is too powerful for their skill level, and a hard kicker for a large guy like me. ( go ahead and call me a wimp for thinking a .500 S&W is hard kicking. I could not care less about your level of machismo. Bite me. I AM ANGRY. ) This often makes a curious and future friend of shooting sports and the second amendment into a person afraid to ever shoot again, and can cause a flinch problem that takes a lot of time to work out if they don't reject the sport and everyone who shoots, as A--holes. It's bad enough with a 12 ga. shotgun when some penis head loads up a turkey load instead of a light target load, just to cause pain & trauma. It's worse when someone hands a "cruiser" pistol gripped shotgun to a small person, who can lose control of the gun. There are plenty of youtube videos of this sadistic practice. Often of a girl smacked in the face by the shotgun. Worse yet is when you hand a small person a .44 magnum or higher power level pistol. Then, as you move up the scale of stupid sadistic jerk, you get to the most powerful commercial handgun in the world. The .500 S&W. This is a gun often found in stores, used, with a box of ammo with 1 to 5 rounds missing. Gee, I wonder why? It also has a problem that shows up rarely, except with rapid recoiling VERY hard kicking guns. It can shoot twice, involuntarily. The kick is stout enough that the shooter, holding as tightly as he or she can, actually has the trigger finger lag behind the recoil of the gun, and when the guns slows, the trigger finger which is still being pulled back by the shooter, ( not nearly enough time has elapsed for a conscious change in muscle tension ) makes the gun fire again. This time it killed a lady. I think the bozo who handed her that gun, loaded with more than one round, deserved manslaughter charges, not murder, but he deserves anything the criminal justice system can hand out. For the lesser macho cretins out there who hand a girl a hard kicking gun for her FIRST EVER try at shooting, I thing what used to be called a sound thrashing is appropriate. Leave them breathing. There is such a thing as disproportionate. The way I feel right now, Proportionate involves physical therapy. http://bearingarms.com/negligent-suicide-with-a-50 0-smith-wesson-revolver/ | ||
| Aesquire |
On a lighter note how about a gun that shoots paper airplanes.... http://www.popsci.com/article/diy/gun-makes-and-fi res-paper-airplanes | ||
| Aesquire |
And times I have no hope for humanity... http://thefreethoughtproject.com/teacher-carries-p lastic-sword-talk-pirate-day-police-lock-down-4-sc hools/#cCBksebRvhPVR6u7.99 | ||
| Kenm123t |
I shoot a lot of 12 gauge super slugs very nasty had to get a recoil pad installed I ruined too many shirts and the Ithaca imprint scar looked weird. I made the mistake of letting a guy shoot it he was shooting a model 70 in 300 win mag that day so I figured he knew how to handle recoil My Bad . I shoot that one with gloves and rifle grip on the stock My spot weld is on my hand not the stock. Well this guy sticks his face on the stock remember the rifle grip? Yep it peeled a big flap of skin off of his face. That shot gun and load combination has a very high recoil not unlike a Ruger Number 1 in 458 .308 30.06 etc are pussy cats by comparison. The .308 pistols are heavy recoiling as well they are not too bad due to the long heavy barrels. Some times we forget others do not have the skills we do or we over estimate our own. Note the tree of shame at the Dragon | ||
| Aesquire |
You had an oops. It was not a deliberate act. That's not even close to handing a 89 pound girl a cruiser 12 GA. With no stock for sadistic amusement. Legal reasons prohibit my natural suggestions for such people. |
