| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
>>> Your belief is baloney. It's actually the otherway around. Guns and violence will be where the people are, therefore supporting the figures calculated. Population has increased and Gun ownership in America has increased since the 1990's including the spread of shall-issue handgun carry laws nationwide, while violent crime has plummeted. Explain. If your theory of more people and more guns means more violence were accurate, the opposite would be true. Your theory is baloney. Plenty of people is Salt Lake City, Utah. Compare the violent crime rate there to that of London or Chicago. Your ignorance is showing. Do you imagine that authoritative declaration passes for convincing argument? That seems your only refuge, then you attack those who offer balance in your defense. FYI: NYC is essentially one huge gun free zone for the law-abiding. Of course criminals there are bold and free to have their way as they like. Love NYC, hate America? Yes, that's the typical mindset of those who cannot tolerate liberty, preferring instead to believe the lie that the state (wealthy oligarchs) is better to look after us all and we should trust it to do so. It was a lie when Marx said it. It was a lie when Stalin said it. It was a lie when Hitler said it. It was a lie when Mao said it. It was a lie when Castro said it. It was a lie when Hugo Chavez said it. It has been a lie anytime anyone has said it. Primary for all such liars has been and remains to be the removal of firearms from the homes of the people. In every single case, prior to the mass murder and gulags and work camps, the people were misled into believing that turning over their firearms would lead to a safer, more secure, more prosperous and happy existence. It was a lie. It remains a lie. Anyone who cannot see that is a flaming delusional moron, willfully blind to the glaring facts of history. Wise up. | ||
| Aesquire |
Accurate and nicely phrased. | ||
| Court |
>>>NYC is essentially one huge gun free zone for the law-abiding. That is a gross understatement. I would never even, in an internet posting, make reference to the materials you put in them . . or to them. A cousin had all his seized when the pd visited his next door neighbor on a domestic call. He was uninvolved but someone ask "do anyone have ?" and the pd knocked on his door in the middle of the night, made him open his safe and took everything. It takes a couple years to recoup and you can only get back one over 6 months. Of course, grips, sights and everything had disappeared. If I even used the words here . . . someone would appear soon. The very reason I keep everything I own in a storage locker in Kansas and never (totally amazes me that some post their entire inventory) make reference to anything online. NYC . . like Chicago, has the toughest laws in the USA and it's made both venues a heyday for criminals assured there is nearly 0% chance they'll be opposed with any parity. | ||
| Aesquire |
Remember the Columbian drug lord who stayed in the Lincoln bedroom when Clinton was renting it out to big donors? His bribe was not to legalize cocaine. It was to keep his monopoly . Gave away all my guns for Christmas when the current governor inherited the office. Gave me the right inventory when he illegally passed a confiscation law in the dead of night without any of the required public notice or comment periods. An unconstitutional pile of lies written by a Bloomberg minion. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Population has increased and Gun ownership in America has increased since the 1990's including the spread of shall-issue handgun carry laws nationwide, while violent crime has plummeted. Explain. If your theory of more people and more guns means more violence were accurate, the opposite would be true. Your theory is baloney. Blake, you've always been stubborn and never one to admit when you're wrong, save the odd occasion. CLEARLY the numbers in the blog stack up. I asked you, if they didn't, to come back and explain EXACTLY why they don't with a related statistical mathematical calculation based on factual data as obtained in similar fashion by author of said blog (he gave references). Instead you come up with some geographical baloney, which when challenged, you add yet more baloney. Blake, it's not MY theory. As for your statement, post up the numbers and show it so with facts rather than just say it. You can't deny the findings from the information I posted, which is clearly stating for several high level crimes America is way ahead of the UK for these crimes being committed. Here's what I think. It's bloody obvious to a blind man. Is it those anti-gun lobbyists are having an effect? What is it now. Close to 50 / 50? You don't need to convince me it seems. But it is clear in you trying to do so the pro-gun camp's rattling. Is this your problem? Regardless what I think. It's like the man said, and I echo his sentiments to the letter. Do I disagree with the rights of civilians (not just American ones) to arm themselves? Yes, yes I do. But that is my opinion, everybody has one, they all stink, and opinions are not based on palpable, objective facts, but on subjective thoughts, emotions and prejudices and bias. Which is why I’m not even going to debate that. But there is something I will debate, and fight, and argue against. The notion that the US is somehow, a safer country than the UK. http://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/ Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Wise up. I did when I stopped listening to those with guns trying to brainwash those without. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
NYC . . like Chicago, has the toughest laws in the USA and it's made both venues a heyday for criminals assured there is nearly 0% chance they'll be opposed with any parity. Yes maybe it has but your statement, as is the case with Blake's wider point, omits rather conveniently how the criminals came to be so easily armed in the first place. Let's be right here also. No hardened gun toting criminal is ever going to be easily disarmed are they. This situation does not reflect how London, Leeds, Manchester, etc, has criminals with guns as unlike parts of or all of America, there is not a culture of guns or gun culture. Or at least not in the same sense there is in America. Think of it like America's right to bear arms has made a rod for America's back. The same could not be said of guns in the UK. In which case your argument renders itself useless, as there are no gun toting criminals roaming around London or elsewhere safe in the knowledge their illegal exploits will meet no resistance. The resistance exists alright. It exists within the system. Be it the simple system of the wider publics wants, or that of the law. Either will come down on you if you're known to have guns. That is to say, someone, anyone, will grass on a gun owner. So if you own a gun here you best keep it very quiet. And let me tell you, you don't get a polite knock on the door. You get an armed response unit surrounding your whereabouts, and they will shoot to kill you if you do a thing to make them think you're holding a gun the way they don't like - as was the case with Mark Duggan. Despite the possible wrongdoings of that particular case, nothing has changed here. You own an illegal gun you risk your life. You own a legal gun and do something even just suggestively illegal with it, you will get a call from the long arm of the law. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Btw I know several rape victims it's not tattooed on their face. They won't talk about it to their girlfriends much less a pig male like you. All too often they never tell anyone....and are not part of the statistics. May be up to half of all ( post college) adult lesbians. Do the math. You really have no idea. Not an insult you tosser.... most have no idea. I must really get up your nose you coming down to this level of name calling. If you can't win your arguments eh Patrick........  Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
I can play this game too. With references. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/uk-v iolent-crime-rate-eight-times-higher-than-the-us/ Different governments record (or don't record) crimes differently. It's very difficult to determine that actual rate. But as others have noted, in the US at least, a very small part of the country accounts for a great percentage of these crimes. What do these areas all have in common? Strict gun bans, Progressive governments, and lots of people on the dole. | ||
| Reepicheep |
So summary execution of otherwise law abiding citizens who want the ability to defend themselves against individual or state tyranny is the solution to the violence problem huh? Sounds like the same logic that decided abortion is a solution to quality of life problems, which is a current world holocaust. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I'm just going to leave this here: http://eudaimoniabygrace.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/ a-few-thoughts-on-gun-control/ | ||
| Sifo |
JLB, I think this one is actually true...  | ||
| Daddio |
Rocket, in the notes to the article you've referenced at least three times here, the author explained that his original data was skewed by including the total population of the UK (including Scotland and Northern Ireland) but using the crime stats of only England and Wales. To correct the stats, he subtracted out the populations of Northern Ireland and Scotland, instead of adding in the crime data from them. I'm willfully displaying my ignorance of the UK here, but is it possible that Scotland and Northern Ireland have more crime? If so, then that would be like excluding California and the East Coast of the US from the total numbers... Comments? Have you facts or opinion on the relative crime rates in Northern Ireland and Scotland? I'm truly interested in this part of the discussion. | ||
| Aesquire |
I must really get up your nose you coming down to this level of name calling. As the Pedantic Prick, I do have to admit that using a euphemism for masturbation in a comment about rape was in bad taste. I do "have a thing" about rape. Also women beaters. I dislike people who lie about rape, and say incredibly stupid things like the recommendation that women urinate their pants to deter a rapist. I much prefer gunshot wounds. That actually works. I also have been teaching young women martial arts weapons forms for over 20 years. I take women students for open hand defense techniques too. If they enjoy it I suggest better teachers and schools. I stick to the basic Yang style Tai Chi ( short form ) and very dirty close quarters fighting. ( and the Tai Chi, despite it's reputation as a mellow exercise is really a very violent, defensive art. Only one punch in the first form.... and it stuns the nerve center that controls breathing... ) One of the proudest moments in my life was when a former student told me she had used her training to leave an attacker unconscious and bleeding, for the police to take away, in an ambulance. She was one of many who had a hard time actually hitting anyone when she started. ( quote from policeman "Damn, Lady, didn't leave us much to do." ) Johnny, Great article. Thank you. I noticed that the lie that America is the most violent nation comes not from Hollywood, but from Russian Propaganda. This explains much of Rocket's resistance to believing the truth. Also why so many of his sources are not even remotely credible, including British domestic crime stats which JLB's linked article explains are now imaginary ( with references ) as I myself pointed out before. When you base your opinions on lies, your opinions are wrong. Your decisions will be wrong, and Rocket's insistence that he's happy to have his rights violated because it makes him safer is both wrong in reasoning ( giving up real freedom for illusory safety ) and demonstrably based on falsehoods. It's a little bit like the "Occupy" spoiled brats. The average college idiot in Central Park lived in a house ( his parents ) worth more than most Americans make in 5 years. He carried an Ipad, wore diesel jeans and drank Starbucks coffee to warm up before spending a day protesting big business. He had enough money to be able to take the summer off work or school to go camp out and try and get laid by hippie chicks. While screaming about 1%'ers. He thought himself a rebel while obeying the commands of rich people staying at the 5 star hotel down the street. He supported causes put in front of him by people who lie for a living, who have an ideology of lying to gain power and wealth, and was trained to hate people who work hard to support their families, put their lives on the line to support freedom, while blindly supporting people who have a more than century long track record of using college age young people to make trouble, win power, and then every single time line them up against the wall to be shot. Because once you've stolen power, you sure don't want the sort of goon you've created opposing you. There are a few points of total congruity ( that means they are exactly the same ) among the different Lie For Power groups at work in the world in the last couple of hundred years. 1. Slave Owners and Slavery Supporters. 2. Islamists ( Jihadi for the Caliphate and Sharia imposed on others..also a slave owning culture ) 3.Leftist/Socialist/Communist/Nazi/Greenies... They all lie to sell their cause. They all don't want the peasants to own weapons. Especially guns. Armed Slaves aren't slaves long. Ask the Poles. They all are racist, though most will deny it with great anger. That may not be true for the Individual follower, but it's inevitable for the leaders, who use race as a tool to whip up hate. They all seem to have a real hard on for Jews. I've heard various theories for that one. | ||
| Aesquire |
Oh, and that "thing" I have against rape? You know what happens to women that get raped in Sharia lands? They are stoned to death for bringing shame to their families. You know what happens to the son of a wealthy man in Sharia Lands? His sister is gang raped by the town elders. Then she is stoned to death because of the shame she brought her family. I won't live to see Sharia in the U.S. This is a COMPLETELY different attitude than Rocket's apparent belief that he will never see it in London in his lifetime. Parse those sentences carefully. | ||
| Sifo |
Why would you need a gun? Here's another real world example. I shot my stalker tonight. While I disagree with posting this sort of thing on the Internet before legal things have fully shaken themselves out, I have a very hard time disagreeing with anything else she says.
IMO, the world is a better place when the weak of body can defend themselves from those who live by brute force. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I can play this game too. With references. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/uk-v iolent-crime-rate-eight-times-higher-than-the-us/ Different governments record (or don't record) crimes differently. It's very difficult to determine that actual rate. Clearly you can't play this game because you're obviously too lazy to read the link stating how it was determinable, or you just couldn't be bothered. If you had read it, you would know how the author of said blog calculated the rates of different crimes recorded and not recorded to be actually representative in a fair comparison. Or maybe you did read it but you're just too dumb or purposely ignorant to understand or accept the findings. Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
Oh, I read it. Hence my response. I, frankly, expected nothing other than the response you provided. I will stop wasting my time. | ||
| Aesquire |
Clearly you can't play this game... No, trading lies is not the game I want to play. Facts are facts. Crime is lower in places in our country with the same population levels speaking the same language, where gun control laws are less racist and restrictive to the citizens. You can argue that Chicago, where shootings are many, and the laws are very strict ( but ONLY FOR citizens ) and Dallas where shootings are far fewer, and the laws are rational, are in fact different cultures... true. The Slave owning party has ruled Chicago for a long time. Go ahead, try and insult me again by calling me a Jew. (Message edited by aesquire on September 30, 2014) | ||
| Blake |
It's always seemed odd that some prefer to turn discussion to the person rather than the issue. I get nauseous reading posts of that nature. Just completely putrified garbage. I appreciate hard nosed analysis. The analysis of history is clear and exactly as Patrick stated. Only lying greedy scoundrels wish to disarm people and prevent them from most effectively defending against violent attack. Sean you're wearing out your welcome and breaking your word to me, again. Take a break. Stick to real life and motorcycles. | ||
| Kenm123t |
I had a project manager from England When he was on his game he was great. But when he got the on the Brit bull shit mode he was worse than useless. I fired him shut down that company. No one from the UK will be employed by one of my companies again The ones i have had are like Rocket fun to watch but Impossible to employ for very long. Basically they live to start Bullshit and facts have no meaning for them. The only thing worth a damn coming out the UK is JCB equipment Probably Indian and German engineers Built by Turks and Paki's | ||
| Aesquire |
Holy frijoles, please quit picking on the Brits, or the Pakis or the group whatever based on planet of origin. You know that's wrong thinking. Pick on individuals, sure. I sure am... probably should apologize, probably to Blake. Pick on ideologies. Pick on the Religious Establishments not the regular guy... It's Mullahs and Con men getting others to strap suicide vests on kids and rape for fun and intimidation. ( AQ & ISIS ) Sure I'd cheer dropping individual murdering guys in the Piranha pit, but it's the Mullahs and would be Kings that run the con and they deserve being Cthulu's playtoys for an agonizing couple of eons. Remember Islamic law says if Daddy was a Muslim, you are too, or you get executed for being Apostate, aka a traitor to the Church. Total Bull... ( and defines Obama ) Utter bilge to be born evil. But the Church as an entity is a church of slavery. Submission to the will of God is as noble a thought as you can have. The guys delivering that Will to you? Really, they Insist this is really it... not so much. A million years from now Fundamentalist Islam will be known to historians as the age when Horny old men no decent girl would touch made up customs that made teenage girls in groups their wives by force and set up all their taboos to keep women as property, locked up and hidden from view. So the other mean spirited Horny Old Men didn't lust after them and steal them... Pretty much the perfect worst parts of adolescence and senile dementia. No personal responsibility for the rulers. Yea! Paradise is lots of hot chicks that have to feed you but you never get fat, serve you booze with no hangover, never talk back, never say no and you have Viagra of the Gods and never have to quit partying. Actually that has some appeal...........  | ||
| Blake |
That's over the top. I've worked with some outstanding British folks. One was even a shooter, was sick about having to turn in his pistols. I very much enjoyed England the little time I've spent there. Best lamb I've ever had short of my own barbe. | ||
| Gaesati |
For my own edification and education about gun laws and the second amendment, I would appreciate some assistance with the following: 1. Does the wording imply that gun owners should be part of a militia? 2. Are people under voting age entitled to bear arms? 3. Are people who have been imprisoned entitled to keep and bear arms? 4. Are the elderly, infirm or insane entitled to bear arms? 5. Are non- citizens I.e aliens either legal or illegal entitled to bear and keep arms? 6. Is citizenship inalienable? 7. What ere the limits on the definition of arms as defined by the federal papers? I.e. Are chemical or biological weapons arms? Is a nuclear device an arm? Are I.E.D.s arms? | ||
| Aesquire |
1. Citizens are the militia. You want to help you should practice and organize. Today that would mean a phone tree and meeting to practice and train. 2. Yes 3. If felons no. Busted for speeding? Not the same. big boy rules. 4. Elderly & infirm, yes. Insane? I'd think not depending. Psychopaths? No. Climate change deniers or other soviet style definitions....yes. 5. Legal yes. Illegal no. Imho. 6. No. 7. I.E.D.'s sure. Situational common sense. Not a normal concealed weapon, eh? But needful in certain contexts. I'd think a permit in order. WMD's banned makes sense. A permit for nukes. Expansion on nukes. say you want to deflect asteroids or do massive scale industrial or transport work. I'd want a good background check. Orion drives or fusion rocket motors need safety and traffic control. Don't want nuclear prop wash hurting other vessels or melting a city, right? Definitely permits. | ||
| Aesquire |
Is an arc welder an arm? I can kill you with it. But I wouldn't think it one. People kill each other with cars on purpose far more often. In fact vehicular homicide by Islamic terrorists has happened multiple times in this administration in the U.S. At trial it is "Used x common tool as weapon with intent. ...." | ||
| Aesquire |
A pool chemical company will have Chlorine gas. Intent and actions. Common sense. I can kill you with a rubber chicken. Or a chain saw. Use common sense. | ||
| Hootowl |
"A million years from now..." A million years from now, no one will remember Islam. There will be several Ice Ages twixt now and then, potentially even a 'Snowball Earth' scenario. It'll be unlikely any human will survive such an event. We've got to get off this planet. | ||
| Hootowl |
I know, not technically ice ages (we're still in one, actually) but that's the common usage. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Amen Hoot. We need to be using this era of massive consumption of fossil fuels to get off the planet, and able to harvest cheap and abundant power sources from space (hydrocarbon seas on the moons of Jupiter, Hydrogen, space based solar from the sun, etc). Then get stable settlements on different planets in different glactic neighborhoods. We are burning up reserves, which is probably inevitable, but we need a big return on that spend for it to work. |
