| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
PLEASE Read the essay before piling on the bile. I have no opinion on the Brown case. You do. I do have an opinion on the morality of certain actions and you do not agree with a only a few of those points. I believe we are at an impasse and neither can convince the other on those few points..... out of what I think is a much larger array of mutually accepted moral beliefs. I won't argue with you about that or defend the cop. But take a moment. Quit your recreational typing. Forget cop shooting, pride of country, or anger at injustice. The part I pasted and you paste above clearly states what we both agree on. Read the rest. I hope you agree with and understand the author's point. | ||
| Court |
>>>And if Brown was leaving the scene, Nor would each and every one of the entry wounds been in the front of him. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Removed (Message edited by ferris_von_bueller on September 24, 2014) | ||
| Fb1 |
Source for photo, please. Thanks. | ||
| Sifo |
The photo is discredited... http://earhustle411.com/photo-injured-darren-wilso n-deceased-motorcross-rider-jim-mcneil/ | ||
| Fb1 |
Yes, it is.
Original source, more: http://etnies.com/blog/2006/10/10/jim-mcneil-face- plants-ouch/ FVB: Your post with the photo purportedly showing Officer Wilson's facial injuries needs to be nuked from this thread. Agree? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Nor would each and every one of the entry wounds been in the front of him It's well known compassionate Yanks prefer to shoot once their foes have turned around, just so's no one can call you a back shooter  How do we know this isn't what happened here? The challenge from officer Wilson on Brown, after he left the relative safety of his vehicle, presents an opportunity for him to shoot Brown. "turn around you son of a bitch" BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! Brown complied. So what if he was dumb enough, full of drugs enough, not of focused mind for whatever reason anyone might find deplorable, to move toward officer Wilson at whatever pace, and likely taunting the officer too. What did officer Wilson expect? And who's to say what officer Wilson wanted? One thing is a fact. He made sure Brown got dead - once he'd turned around - coz officer Wilson knows he can't shoot Brown in the back had he continued on his merry way. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Ferguson police officer Great research there Ferris!  Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
An attempt by the IPCC to prevent police EXECUTING citizens. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-257768 26 Rocket in England | ||
| Court |
Nice drivel. . . .the facts, however, remain. Those nasty facts. My nephew, who shot and killed the guy recently, fired only once . . . are you suggesting he should have fired "half a shot"? Ludicrous. I'm not sure if Brown was on drugs, although I think the autopsy found some, but I am quite certain he was stupid. Ignore, for a moment, the shooting portion of his day of crime . . . but, frankly, few are stupid enough (or, as you suggest, drugged up enough) to beat a guy standing 5' from a video camera. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Anyone genuinely interested in the Duggan case should read this. There is a tenuous connection to Brown's shooting is all, but it's here so as some don't draw conclusions they should not and confuse the argument regarding police executing people. http://www.irr.org.uk/news/framing-the-death-of-ma rk-duggan/ Whatever Duggan did wrong what is apparent after Duggan's death at the hands of British police, is the police defending their behaviour. Why? Because in this country they are NOT allowed to EXECUTE people. Rocket in England | ||
| Court |
>>>Because in this country they are NOT allowed to EXECUTE people. Ahhhh . . . one thing we have in common. | ||
| Hootowl |
"Which Brown might not have been going to do had officer Wilson remained in the safety of his vehicle rather than relying on his gun in an attempt to bring Brown to justice, thus further aggravating Brown, or even enticing him to a confrontation. Such an attempt could be seen as officer Wilson dishing out his own justice. In other words, EXECUTING Brown." What is ya, ignernt? He's a cop. His JOB is to confront criminals. Chanting 'execute', like some kind of mantra does not make it so. Repeating a lie does not make it so. He was not executed. He was shot while assaulting a police officer for the second time in the span of a few minutes. Police officers do not have a duty to run from punks. Quite the opposite. | ||
| Sifo |
How do we know this isn't what happened here? The challenge from officer Wilson on Brown, after he left the relative safety of his vehicle, presents an opportunity for him to shoot Brown. "turn around you son of a bitch" BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! And once again, despite protests that you don't do this, you present scenarios based on pure fantasy rather than looking at the best evidence that we have available. Funny thing here. I deal with kids on a daily basis. I've learned to expect this sort of thing from young kids. I've learned that around third grade they start to realize that this crap really doesn't work. Just sayin'. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
My nephew, who shot and killed the guy recently, fired only once . . . are you suggesting he should have fired "half a shot"? I don't know the circumstances of your nephew's case, but any police officer having an opportunity to preserve a life rather than take one should always have that paramount in his actions. I can't speak of your nephew and what he had to do. In the matter of Brown's shooting, I can comment due to media and other coverage. I'm of the opinion there could be evidence to suggest officer Wilson's actions could have gone a step further to prevent him being forced even, to shoot Brown. His duty is to apprehend first and foremost is it not? Hey, I don't know the law over there but I'd wager if an opportunity to preserve life, no matter how small exists, the law wouldn't support the actions of a police officer should he take life when that life taking could have been avoided. I wouldn't call it drivel. I'd call it common sense - otherwise what's to stop a cop being judge jury and executioner? Isn't this how law is supposed to work, so police can't take law into their own hands..... Ludicrous. I would think it depends on how open minded one is, and unbiased in that they don't have a close relation serving. I'm not sure if Brown was on drugs, although I think the autopsy found some, but I am quite certain he was stupid. Ignore, for a moment, the shooting portion of his day of crime . . . but, frankly, few are stupid enough (or, as you suggest, drugged up enough) to beat a guy standing 5' from a video camera. Suggest, along with any other emotional event possibly altering Brown's mind, if at all. I merely make the point, as any police officer facing such a person should have to consider a person's mental state into account where possible before shooting to kill? Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Ahhhh . . . one thing we have in common. And in some cases in either country, police get it wrong. Something else our nations have in common. Rocket in England | ||
| Reepicheep |
Beautifully done troll! So now, if a cop doesn't just let an attempted murderer walk away, or doesn't wait until he gets is done being killed by a thug so he has absolutely no doubt if the thug is trying to kill him, he is suddenly a judge, jury, and executioner. Again, brilliant troll Rocket. | ||
| S21125r |
Rocket - Let me try to offer some perspective. I don’t think the UK way is wrong any more than the US way is right. It’s just a different method of enforcing a social contract. The key is that the audience needs to know what the ground rules are. It’s under the assumption that it went down the way we think it did that I make the following points… You see this as two or more points of engagement. That’s not the way it works here. Once a LEO engages a bad guy he pursues until the bad guy is apprehended. It’s well understood, accepted and expected as a social norm here. LEOs also have a well-documented Force Continuum that dictates what response they may use for various levels of threat. They can drop into the threat/response matrix at any point to match the conditions. (i.e. You wouldn’t ask for a perp’s ID if he’s pointing a gun at you.) This too is a socially accepted and understood ground rule. So if it went down as indicated then Brown knew exactly what the consequences were for his actions before he even threw the first punch because he knew what the ground rules were. He could have had his day in court under the presumption of innocence (yet another well understood social norm…) but he chose the prize behind door #2. Allegedly. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Chanting 'execute', like some kind of mantra does not make it so. Repeating a lie does not make it so. He was not executed. He was shot while assaulting a police officer for the second time in the span of a few minutes. Police officers do not have a duty to run from punks. Quite the opposite. What happens when it's not a punk, and just a person of exemplary character having a bad day, who went to the pub to drink away his sorrows, where some naughty youts spiked his tequila rocks with ecstasy and cat and he thought he was king for a day, laughed in the face of a policeman who told him to get off the road, further confronted by policeman took a wild swing at said po-po, enough to allow po-po man to bang bangey him dead dead. Welcome to America. Home of the free, land of the not so brave - unless you gotta gun. Could happen to anybody  .................... He was shot while assaulting a police officer for the second time in the span of a few minutes. And not to be too pedantic but a second assault on officer Wilson? I think not - so let's not distort what is known. Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
"What happens when it's not a punk, and just a person of exemplary character having a bad day, who went to the pub to drink away his sorrows, where some naughty youts spiked his tequila rocks with ecstasy and cat and he thought he was king for a day, laughed in the face of a policeman who told him to get off the road, further confronted by policeman took a wild swing at said po-po, enough to allow po-po man to bang bangey him dead dead" That's a pretty wild scenario, but I'll indulge you. Sucks to be him. You assault a cop to the point where he fears for his life, and you get shot. Same as if someone attacked me and I feared for my life. You're going to get shot. | ||
| Hootowl |
"And not to be too pedantic but a second assault on officer Wilson? I think not - so let's not distort what is known." Good God you're dense. You're the one who has been railing on about how if the cop had backed off, there would have been no second encounter, and no need to shoot the thug. He was shot during the second assault. | ||
| Court |
>>>but any police officer having an opportunity to preserve a life rather than take one should always have that paramount in his actions. Absolutely agreed. And . . any Police Officer . . .fit to hold the badge needs to be able, in a split second, to make the decision to terminate a life for cause. All this "considering the mental state" . . "putting yourself in their shoes" and so forth it pure poppycock. An Officer, properly trained and in possession of the requite skills, needs to be able to do what my nephew did . . . recognize the threat to himself and others in less than an second, draw a weapon and end that threat. He did it with one shot. He was a wreck for a week. But, ask him now and he'll tell you that his comfort lies in the fact that no shooting could have possibly been more justified. His case was cut and dried . . .others less so. But . . if it were an easy job Saab mechanics and construction workers would be doing it. No doubt the cops err . . . we had one here today in NYC that was terrible. But I still stand strongly in support of the cops . . in both the USA and UK. It's got to be the toughest job in the world. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Great research there Ferris! LOL...It's the Internet. Everything is true ! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
So now, if a cop doesn't just let an attempted murderer walk away Oh pity the poor excuse to kill a bad boy. The FACTS are the officer got his eye punched and smashed, his assailant then leaving the scene. This is attempted murder? Cops can shoot a person for throwing a punch? Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
"the officer got his eye punched and smashed, his assailant then leaving the scene. This is attempted murder?" Nope. The assailant wasn't shot leaving the scene. He was shot while assaulting a cop. The thug charged the cop. Now, if someone charged at me after breaking my skull, and wrestling me for my gun, I'd take that as deadly intent, and empty my weapon into him, just as this officer did. You go on thinking whatever you want. It matters not. Ding dong, the thug is dead.  | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Rocket - Let me try to offer some perspective. Thank you. That absolutely works for me. I rest my case. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Thanks Court. A more understanding response than your others. As for your nephew, he's fortunate to have an uncle with the wisdom to see him through it if need be. His case was cut and dried . . .others less so. But . . if it were an easy job Saab mechanics and construction workers would be doing it. No I would not! I might enjoy to be a traffic cop for a week or three providing I could just hand out tickets to the many many many poor road users we have here. Rocket in England | ||
| Sifo |
Oh pity the poor excuse to kill a bad boy. The FACTS are the officer got his eye punched and smashed, his assailant then leaving the scene. This is attempted murder? Cops can shoot a person for throwing a punch? Once again, the troll is leaving out the most important bit of information that seems to be fairly well accepted. The thug was trying to gain access for the cops gun. That makes all the difference in the world. At that point, you have an attempted murder of a police officer. You don't simply let that person walk away as the troll suggests. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Sif, I'm done. If it pleases you, I'm happy to say I was wrong. I stood on a point of principle. The principle of a U.S. police officer has been explained and I accept it. It fits the events. Covers my concerns. Thank you. The dumb troll offers apologies to those he might have upset. Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
I might enjoy to be a traffic cop for a week or three providing I could just hand out tickets to the many many many poor road users we have here. A common fantasy. I favor a 2 tier driver license system. "B" license is pretty much the same as today. "A" license has s tough test, up to an hour long, with high speed driving, skid pan recovery, fast lane change, and some of it in real "A" traffic. Tailgate, fail. "A" drivers would have access to superhighways, unlimited speed. "B" drivers on lesser roads only. But the real incentive is "A" drivers get a "tag" device. You point it at another car, it reads the ID, and you mark it in the traffic system. A certain number of tags, say, 10, and you get a ticket. If 10 "A" drivers thought you drove like crap.... you deserve it. "A" drivers that over-tag would lose their tag privilege. Not sure how to do that without cameras. Just a fantasy.... |
