| Author | Message | ||
     Rocket_in_uk |
Brown had just moments before committed a felony robbery and assault, so I have a difficult time extending him the benefit of any doubt. You shouldn't have to. EVERYTHING should be about the facts surrounding his killing, and only the events surrounding his killing. Not events which happened ten minutes previous, seeing as he was not using a weapon and had not as such assaulted anyone to the point deadly force should be necessary. But let's not forget officer Wilson knew of the store robbery, so it has no bearing on the shooting, and nor should it have on you if you wish to speak impartially about Brown's shooting. Which is what I have been doing since my first words in this topic. Do you know what a "blunt" is? Out of all the things in the store that Brown could have stolen, why did he steal packages of little cigars? The answer to this may explain his behavior, not only in the store, but also several minutes later with Wilson. No though I'm thinking you're going to tell me Brown was high on crack or something. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Your question above seems obtuse. Is it deliberate? Why would it be? The question I asked is valid as any other here. A police officer has no right to take a persons life UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, right? Was it necessary in this instance? Perhaps, but only after officer Wilson addressed his assailant further. Therein lies the crux of the matter. Rocket in England | ||
| Fb1 |
Frankly Jerry I find this comment a little below the belt. Your opinion, but IMO my comment is decidedly above the belt; I chose my words carefully. I find it difficult to understand where you and I might have clashed ever before on BadWeB, and over what. So please do remind me.. My earlier comment stands: I find it personally frustrating to try to converse with you. It was this way in the past, and hasn't changed in the present. That's probably enough said. WTF is wrong with you man? Why are you turning this personal? It's personal only in that I don't agree with your views as expressed on this thread (and several others), nor do I agree with your "debating style" or your reasoning and logic. In that sense, nothing has changed. What's "wrong" with me is that I don't agree with you. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
What gave the officer the right to shoot the motorist? When someone punches you in the face, they punch you in the face. That they knock a tooth out, or bust your lip, or smash your eye socket, is not a guarantee. It's highly unlikely an assailant is trying to kill the person they're assaulting by using a few blows of their fists. A person using, or even prepared to use a gun and fire it at a police officer is likely to fire a gun at most anyone should they feel the need to. Thus they are a danger to ANYONE and if using a gun as is seen in the video (which has been shown on British T.V many times in various reality cop shows) a police officer is within his rights to shoot at them to either stop them and apprehend them, or shoot them dead in the process. Rocket in England | ||
| Sifo |
I'll lay out what I can't stand about Rocket. In this thread he has repeatedly ignored the fact that there is evidence that Brown rushed the cop. You point it out to him, he acknowledges it, then falls right back to the same argument that ignores this fact. Same sort of crap on the Ukraine thread goes on. There's no way this can be accidental. It's pure troll behavior. Plain enough? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
No. A single officer pulled the trigger of his gun. The Mark Duggan case is riddled with controversy but it is a matter of fact that many armed police officers had pursued him for several miles whilst Duggan took a taxi ride, and had caught him in an ambush situation where other armed police were waiting, they believing Duggan to be armed. The Duggan case is in no way comparable to the shooting of Brown. Not unless you explain to me how? Rocket in England | ||
| Daddio |
FB1-- You're Welcome Mr. -In-Uk, EVERY encounter with a police officer in the U.S. is an armed encounter. Think about that one. If I'm knocked out, unconscious, then I've just surrendered my weapon(s), even if I don't carry a firearm, then my baton, taser, pocket knife, etc., are fair game to my assailant. It is well known that police officers in the U.S., though, carry at least one firearm; in addition to their sidearm, there is also a likelihood of a shotgun and/or a tactical rifle. Mr. -In-Uk, I don't know you, nor you me; but the assertions you make about police curling up in a ball, and not facing down someone who has just proven, by his actions, that he is a menace to society, show me that you, sir, have not a shred of sense of duty, nor of honor, to the oaths that I, and many commenting on this thread, have made. You want a devil's advocate opinion from Brown's perspective? OK-- I'm just looking to score some free cigars to roll a 'blunt,' (using a cigar with a partially hollowed tip to stuff with marijuana, crack cocaine, or meth, because a cigar burns hot enough at the tip to burn the latter two, and masks the smell of the former.) However, I've been born into an entitlement society in which neither I, nor my family, have had to earn by labor what we get; my family needed ever serve me meals, because my school provides hot breakfasts and lunches, and EBT cards provide meals at the convenience store. EBT cards, however, will not ring up alcohol, or tobacco products on the vendor's cash register, so these I have to steal. I've been shoplifting since a young teen, if not earlier, but now that I'm 18, my juvenile records are sealed. Oh, but wait! Now that I'm 18, I'm considered an adult (whatever that is, losers!) and can and may be held responsible for my actions, which means that the police can physically arrest me, and take me to jail. Ah, the likelihood of getting caught shoplifting is slim, so, I grab a handful of cheap, convenience store cigars, and try to walk out, but the pesky little south-Asian store owner is objecting to me stealing... so I teach the little guy a lesson, grab him by the collar, and just about pick him up with one hand, and tell him in no uncertain terms that I was leaving with his property, and that there was nothing the owner could do about it. As I walk out, and start to stroll down the street, my older, and maybe smarter friend and accomplice, tells me that by stealing using violence or threat of violence, I've escalated my simple shoplifting to strong-arm robbery, a felony in many jurisdictions. Minutes after leaving the store, as my friend and accomplice are walking down the street, we see the Po-Po, the 5-0, "G" rolling down the street at us. As he drives by, he yells something like "get out of the middle of the street, moron!" Well, I don't like to be called moron, because my teachers have told me that it is bad for my self esteem, so I tell the police officer to go "F%$#" himself. My self esteem thus restored, I turn and continue walking in the street, when Lo! the policeman stops his police car, and starts to get out! Well, this cop is bigger than the store clerk, but still waaay smaller than me, and, because his 'dissin'' me, asking for my ID, and stuff, I figure that I can bum-rush him, and intimidate him like I did the store clerk. As the cop is getting out of his G-ride, I connect with a nice right punch, hitting him in the eye, and knocking him back into to car. Man! I've never knocked someone out with one punch before, like in that 'knock-out game' I've seen on Youtube. Oh, no! The cop's only dazed, and he reaching for something on his waist! Gun? Taser? Radio? so I dive in on top of the cop to keep him from getting whatever he's trying to get, when "BANG," I mean, I've heard gunfire before, but never inside a car! Am I shot? Damn, my ears are ringing, I gotta step back. Oh, ok, I'm not hit, but WTF? The Po-Po is now getting out of the car, and he looks mad! Now he's yelling at me to get down on the ground, and my ears are still ringing, and he's really pissed off, but, man! my ears are still ringing and no white cop is gonna call me out my name, so to show him I will not be dissed, I face him, and tell him he ain't so tough without that badge and gun, and walk toward him, but I'm scared 'cuz more cops'll be showing up soon but to M-effing white cop is gonna talk to me like that, and when he tells me to stop, I tell him "Whatcha gonna do, shoot me? I ain't afraid of you! I wave my arms around to make my point, and as I get nearer the cop I see a flash-- and damn that stung, s#!* my arm's on fire and another flash! then Flash------ See, I can see both sides. | ||
| Fb1 |
EVERYTHING should be about the facts surrounding his killing And what, exactly, are the facts? Please be specific, and please cite your sources. ... seeing as he was not using a weapon What do you mean by "weapon," and how do you know he didn't have a weapon? ...and had not as such assaulted anyone to the point deadly force should be necessary. How do you know this? But let's not forget officer Wilson knew of the store robbery... What?!? ...so it has no bearing on the shooting... What?!? ...and nor should it have on you if you wish to speak impartially about Brown's shooting. Which is what I have been doing since my first words in this topic. Yeah, right:
No though I'm thinking you're going to tell me Brown was high on crack or something. I have no such knowledge, and was only offering a possible clue as to Brown's behavior. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I chose my words carefully. I'm sure you did given you're such a PC guy. Yep I do remember the days when it all went pear shaped around here and where your loyalties lay. That's probably enough said. Oh no please don't hold back. Have some f**king balls for the first time in fifteen years. Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
Fb1.... Dang! I would say the officer was justified to use deadly force to stop a drunk violent driver who had decided to shoot a police officer rather than get ( another ) DWI. It's not likely he would shoot a waitress in the diner who didn't serve him coffee fast enough, but I'd be nervous about him killing anyone who told him he should get a cab. BTW, years of working late shift in a 7-11 as my moonlighting job taught me some life lessons. Policemen told me half the people driving after midnight ( in NY State ) were legally drunk. We had a police freq scanner, and I can tell you nearly everyone pulled over after 3 am. no longer had a license. ( local bars closed at 2 am. Buffalo bars ( 45 minutes away ) at 3 am. ) I'm not sure how it would be seen if you'd have shot the rapist dead after shouting "stop doing that you naughty man" and he ignored you. I reckon you'd be on dodgy ground had they just told you to f*ck off and they carried on raping. How would you actually know it was rape? That last is a good question. How DO you know it's rape? With the publication of "50 shades of grey" a lot of S&M girls have come out of the closet. ( before they just read Romance novels, the prime source for girly S&M ) so it's possible that the couple just enjoys kinky public sex and she loves it when he hits her in the face or chokes her till she submits or gets off on having a knife held to her throat during rough sex. Not likely, but Possible. Makes it difficult. The "best" way is to politely ask them to stop, ask the man to back off a distance so you can ask the girl in an environment where she does not feel threatened by him if she is a willing participant. If so, profound apologies and "please carry on". Since that is a rather unlikely event you have to use good judgment, try to look for clues there is something amiss, and every time I have done so, It appeared to be friendly recreational activity, and I passed by with a smile. I've been lucky. I actually have years of experience in these matters, having worked security at large ( 14,000 person ) historical recreation events. A lot of alcohol is consumed at night and people enjoy a lot of recreational activity. I certainly have. But If you are unlucky enough to catch an actual rape in progress, it's a hard call. You want to stop the crime in progress. By all means call for backup. Call for all the backup as loud as you can. Hopefully this will break the mood and the rapist will run away, leaving you to help an injured lady in dire need of professional psychiatric help. Oh, joy. The Life of a Hero. ( no, she's not going to throw herself into your arms. She's not going to want a man anywhere near her. For a long time. ) If that fails... it's a tougher call. By the way, if both tell you to sod off, it wasn't rape, apologize and move along. If the guy tells you to sod off and the girl cries for help, you just got into the twilight zone. You can boot the fellow off the girl, ( If she's on top, it's not rape ) and are fully justified in using potentially deadly force. Yes, most police departments will frown on you beheading him with a sword ( My preference ) and the lady covered in probably infected blood is not going to be happy. Besides, I don't carry a sword on a daily basis, the local cops get very annoyed by all the panic calls.  The same applies to blowing his head off with a gun. Either, however, IS legal. And justified. It's not an easy thing. But it's the right thing to stop the crime in progress. If you can, get backup first. By the way the biggest difference between me, a citizen, and a cop, is I'm not allowed to use deadly force to hold someone I arrested. I certainly can arrest someone, I can even use force to hold him for the police. I can't kill him if he runs away, and there are a limited number of cases where a policeman can. If on the other hand they stopped raping, then turned their attention toward you I don't believe you have the right to shoot them just because they're coming towards you telling you what a c**t you are for spoiling their fun. They? Both man and woman? Hell NO, I should RUN! Just the rapist, leaving the girl crying on the ground? If I am being approached by an angry man who I just interrupted in the middle of a violent physical assault, I certainly can kill him. Totally justified. Screw the idea I provoked him, he was beating, raping or killing someone. Far too many rapes end in murder. I have every reasonable expectation my life is in danger. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
The instant you raise a fist at a LEO or anyone else for that matter (out of frustration) shows it is highly likely you want to do major bodily harm AND in that instant..., highly likely you may even wish you had a brick in your hand or some super power for a second or two. (I have when I was drunk) No one I have ever known or have ever seen that got into a fight, throw a first punch without trying to do as much damage as possible in that instant. (unless your in a ring, or have some boxing/martial arts training, majority of folk do not) Don't you guys remember when YOU were 18 and hanging out with your friends drunk or partying and come across a duchebag cop? I KNOW there are probably many "problems with authority" stories here. Some kids today are even more stupid drunk dumb I think. (adults too) | ||
| Sifo |
No though I'm thinking you're going to tell me Brown was high on crack or something. I have no such knowledge, and was only offering a possible clue as to Brown's behavior. Or something... Mike Brown Autopsy Results: Marijuana Found In Ferguson Teen's Body; Does Pot Increase Violent Behavior? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
In this thread he has repeatedly ignored the fact that there is evidence that Brown rushed the cop. You point it out to him, he acknowledges it, then falls right back to the same argument that ignores this fact. Had officer Wilson remained in his vehicle after the initial assault from Brown, Brown would not have been in a position to "rush" officer Wilson given Brown appeared to be leaving the scene. That is until officer Wilson appeared with a gun was it not? WHERE DOES THIS IGNORE BROWN "RUSHED" OFFICER WILSON? Before you speak perhaps you should research a little more seeing as you're really shit at keeping up. Or is that 'making shit up'. Rocket in England | ||
| D_adams |
Assault and battery of a police officer is grounds for arrest, thus, the officer in question got out of his vehicle to ARREST him. Kinda hard to do so while sitting down, isn't it? Damn, I'm not the smartest guy here, but even I could figure that one out. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Mr. Brown would not be dead if he and his little buddy walked on the sidewalk!! How do you come up with this crap? Brown was leaving the scene you say??? LEAVING THE SCENE OF A CRIME!!! (after he assaulted the LEO) And I am sure he knew what he did at that point... THEN officer calls for him to return and Officer has already been assaulted once, he will not let it happen again AND can NOT let the criminal get away if possible!! It is his JOB. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Daddio, interesting post. If the sequence of events to the shooting of Brown happened pretty much as you describe, "I gotta step back. Oh, ok, I'm not hit, but WTF? The Po-Po is now getting out of the car, and he looks mad! Now he's yelling at me to get down on the ground, and my ears are still ringing, and he's really pissed off, but, man! my ears are still ringing and no white cop is gonna call me out my name, so to show him I will not be dissed, I face him, and tell him he ain't so tough without that badge and gun, and walk toward him" I have no alternative but to agree with officer Wilson's actions. Rocket in England | ||
| Sifo |
WHERE DOES THIS IGNORE BROWN "RUSHED" OFFICER WILSON? The second time numbnuts. You know, when the cop shot him. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
But let's not forget officer Wilson Apologies, typing to fast. Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
Wow... the discussion moved a lot while I paused in the above reply and had a snack. Was it necessary in this instance? Perhaps, but only after officer Wilson addressed his assailant further. Therein lies the crux of the matter Bull. The officer had zero legal obligation to hide in his car to prevent the situation from escalating. He had a legal obligation to arrest a violent criminal. ( and was an officer who had no idea he was dealing with a violent man, until he was assaulted ) What a "blunt" is and any video we have seen showing what a sterling character Brown was has no bearing on the Officer's actions. He had no such info. Yes the officer knows what a blunt is but that has zero bearing on his actions, he had no idea they were involved, nor would they have meant anything to the question of self defense. Rocket, a Blunt is the brand name of a very cheap cigar. Very cheap cigars are hollowed out and the core filled with marijuana so that you can smoke in public. Pretty damn silly, since it doesn't really work. Marijuana has as perhaps it's funniest characteristic that it smells good. Anyone who has worked in a low income urban zone can instantly tell the difference between a cheap cigar ( burning garbage ) and a "Blunt" ( combination of burning garbage and those Pine tree shaped car fresheners, the good ones. ). That ( Video ) is all after the fact knowledge and only serves to inform us in considering the big picture. The big picture is NOT what the people on the scene had to consider, and can not be used to tell us what the people should have done. That kind of logic is faulty and just plain wrong. Oh, BTW, I have had police officers interrupt me in what I thought was a private setting, and their main concern was getting verification from the girl that she was not under duress. They failed to be polite enough to allow us to resume, which was annoying, but really the mood was broken by then. And they were VERY serious about getting that verification. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The second time numbnuts. You know, when the cop shot him. I'm aware of that seeing as I agree and have never not. Which is why I asked where does "Had officer Wilson remained in his vehicle after the initial assault from Brown, Brown would not have been in a position to "rush" officer Wilson given Brown appeared to be leaving the scene. That is until officer Wilson appeared with a gun was it not?" ignore Brown rushed officer Wilson? I'm all ears  Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
she loves it when he You know my f**k buddy? They? Both man and woman? They as in men do rape men, and women do rape men, so 'they' as in general. Rocket in England | ||
| Sifo |
I'm aware of that seeing as I agree and have never not. How long until you are back to this BS? Posted on Monday, September 22, 2014 - 03:46 pm: There's no evidence to support Brown attacking officer Wilson when he approached Brown with his gun. Seem like "never" was just a few hours ago. | ||
| Aesquire |
They? Both man and woman? They as in men do rape men, and women do rape men, so 'they' as in general. Oh I'm not an idiot. I let women do as they please. Interrupt a woman raping a man? That would be insane! I just hope on such a rare occasion I had the presence of mind to get out my cell phone camera.  And not being expert on Man-man sex, I'm not sure I could tell the difference... I assume if one is calling for help, it may be rape? You skipped Women on Woman rape. You will never see that although it does happen. I bet far more often than women-on-man. Women are too smart to do that where they can get caught. I think the same applies to Women-on-man rape. No, ( and I think you are being deliberately obtuse here, but maybe not, I speak American and You, English ) I mean if the person I thought was the rapist and the willing partner come at me angry. Then you run. You have made a horrible mistake. Since THAT is your objection to my comments, may I assume the rest gives you no cause to raise objections? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
please cite your sources. Smutty UK daily newspapers. how do you know he didn't have a weapon? It said so in the smutty UK daily newspapers. How do you know this? It said so in the smutty UK daily newspapers. Yeah, right: I know. I'm clever. quote: it's a repetitive pattern of police brutality and American cops playing judge jury and executioner FACT! quote: police brutality is much more rife than people would believe FACT! quote: "Your statements seem to indicate that you believe Officer Wilson murdered Mike Brown. Please correct me if I'm wrong." --FB He did. No doubt about it. FACT quote: Brown was executed FACT No though I'm thinking you're going to tell me Brown was high on crack or something. I have no such knowledge, and was only offering a possible clue as to Brown's behavior. I believe that is what I suggested you were doing, except it wasn't crack but dope smoked in a carved out cigar, right? Or were you just being purposely obtuse? By the way. I don't read smutty UK daily newspapers. I was just being purposely obtuse to piss you off for being such a jerk. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
There's no evidence to support Brown attacking officer Wilson when he approached Brown with his gun. Seem like "never" was just a few hours ago. You're confused fella. There is no evidence of any further assault on officer Wilson from Brown after the initial assault which would be BEFORE officer Wilson used his gun. A point I have not deviated from at all. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Since THAT is your objection to my comments, may I assume the rest gives you no cause to raise objections? You lost me after the first rape, which wasn't actually a rape, and no harm came to any woman, or man. Rocket in England | ||
| Fb1 |
Fb1.... Dang! I would say the officer was justified to use deadly force to stop a drunk violent driver who had decided to shoot a police officer rather than get ( another ) DWI. Yeah, I'd say he was, too. (BTW, didya catch the "click" sound when the first round from the motorist misfired? That one woulda been right in the face.) It's an interesting mental exercise, I think: The motorist didn't even injure the officer, and once in flight posed no further threat to the officer. And yet...the cop was justified in using deadly force. | ||
| Sifo |
A point I have not deviated from at all. No? You continually skip over the part that got Brown shot. Rushing the cop the second time. Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2014 - 06:17 am: There's only one issue which matters here. Was Brown's shooting justified? Brown was approached by a lone police officer who shouted commands at Brown from the driving seat of a police vehicle through an open window. Soon after, Brown assaulted police officer Wilson, who was still sat in his police vehicle. This a first point of contact between Brown and Wilson. Soon after assaulting police officer Wilson, Brown moved away. Quite how far Brown moved away appears to have been far enough for police officer Wilson to make a decision to confront Brown further. Evidenced by police officer Wilson leaving the safety of his police vehicle. It is known police officer Wilson was out of his vehicle when he shot Brown dead. Being out of his police vehicle would be a second confrontation if in further contact with Brown. Does a second contact not raise the question, could Brown's shooting have been avoided? If the answer to this question is yes, then there is reason enough to ask if Brown's shooting was necessary. Don't rush the cop, you don't get shot. It's that simple. Too complicated for a drug addled mind it would seem. | ||
| Fb1 |
This is pretty old news:
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| Fb1 |
Source, more: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/09/02/thr ee-important-mike-brown-story-videos/ |
