| Author | Message | ||
     Xdigitalx |
http://6abc.com/technology/reading-police-add-futu ristic-motorcycles-to-fleet/282053/ Pretty cool. But 20k?? Would a 250cc for under 5k and super quiet mufflers be better (for the city)? Use the 15k left over for gas.. if my math is close... that be almost 300k miles worth of gas for each bike. (3.25 per gal @ 65mpg avg) Or better yet, use the 15k (x2) for more security cameras in the city. Or fix the potholes. | ||
| Froggy |
You forgot to factor in the cost of the police equipment. That 250cc will be closer to 10k after the police are done with it, and it still has one of those defective annoying and under powered gas motor things. Plus the Zero has longer range, less maintenance, easier to ride, and better acceleration. Since you are all about saving the police money in the short term while screwing in the long term, lets start replacing their guns with super soakers, and have the bullet proof vests be made by a 3rd grade art class out of cardboard. | ||
| Sifo |
So the corrected math then would be having 200K miles worth of gas for each bike? OK! Of course they will probably need a good bit of that gas because they will be able to actually spend more time patrolling rather sitting at the charging station. For a vehicle like this, charging time is the same as down time. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I didn't forget anything.... How can one forget something they do not know? lol. I wonder what bikes they are replacing? My guess is either: 1. None 2. They are replacing ultra inexpensive bicycles because got too fat and lazy to ride them. I guess we could call their new Zero patrol officers SPD's?? (Silent But Deadly) Cool.... now we can hear them fart as they leave dunkin donuts. In all seriousness... it IS pretty cool but those bikes should be 7999.00. | ||
| Froggy |
Knock three zeros off of that and it is more like it. Gas could be free and a gasser would still would be more expensive. Have you ever filled a gasoline powered vehicle?
Exactly, these vehicles can spend more time on the road and less time in the shop!
Or 3, those $24,791.07 Harley Super Ultra Fat Tom Bobber Classic Glide Custom CVO FLOLP Police bikes that are notorious for high running costs and poor fuel economy. http://www.freep.com/article/20120723/NEWS06/20723 0344/Michigan-State-Police-fleet-is-no-longer-all- American-as-BMWs-move-in-on-Harleys
And there is a good reason you don't do work with budgeting (or do you????) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Why do you ask that? Dude I'm just a motorcycle enthusiast posting on the bad web. No need to be a snot face. IMHO...they are worth no more than 7999.00. That's what they need to be priced at to really convince the public and really be competitive. 20k? Keep it. | ||
| Froggy |
I'm not being a snot face, you just clearly have no concept of what they are worth. Zero bikes start at $9,495, and work their way up depending on the model, battery size, accessories and other whatnot. Obviously if the police are dropping $20k on them, they are getting one of the higher up models and that price would also reflect accessories and police equipment, which would add a substantial amount to any vehicle. If you want to buy one, great, you won't need to pay $20k. If you are really hard up to spend more than $8k, go buy this electric instead http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RMWaHpLFJlqI/ EEC-Electric-Scooter-BL-Metro-.jpg | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
but do they do this!? | ||
| Court |
Whatever . . . . Can you explain this?
The Harley FLH, unless you are a parading Shriner, is about the worst "police" motorcycle you could buy. Think about it . . . . BUT . . . they were a HUGE money maker. Remind me to tell you why sometime. :-) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
WOW. They have lawsuits against them yet for that?? That's nuts. Those e bikes are not replacing HD's. 7995.00 OTD. 150 mile range, all the features of a 2013/14 small (take your pick) road bike. OH and a 20 min (or less)recharge time. Found this better video while typing!! http://www.wgal.com/news/the-thin-green-line-readi ng-police-use-electric-motorcycle/27730446#!bLe4Rx OK, OK..., I stand at 8995.00 for the Civi version, 14,995.00 for the cop bike. Do anyone make electric quads yet? Simple golfcart conversion.... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Italian hookers and cocaine? No wait, that was a different Harley story. | ||
| Strokizator |
but do they do this!? To be fair, the bike in that video is a 2006 or 2007. I had a 2008 Road Glide and it felt like the swing arm was attached to the frame with a gate hinge. All new frame for 2009 and I think that's been addressed. Fixed mine with an aftermarket stiffener. Back to the electric bike, I wouldn't be surprised if the police dept got a grant that covered a significant portion of the cost of "going green". Heck, I'm nobody and various govt agencies ponied up $152 a month towards my electric car lease. | ||
| Skntpig |
Nice test track complete with a guard rail. | ||
| Sifo |
Nice test track complete with a guard rail. That was my first thought. And he wobbled past guardrail after guardrail. He's got some brass balls! My '06 Dyna regularly got mid 40' mpg. All day comfort too. Comfort is an important part of what they need if they are going to patrol with them like they do with big cop bikes. I have my doubts that the ZERO can come close in the comfort category. Of course there will be little need for that sort of comfort given their limited range. They will have to return to the garage long before their shift is over to be recharged. That's down time. Down time is lost money. These bikes aren't aimed at that roll. They are aimed at light duty use in special events. They would probably share the roll of bicycle cops more than motorcycle cops. Then you have to factor in charging stations. To get anything close to a reasonably fast charge time requires a very expensive charging station. A gas powered bike is refueled in minutes with the same facilities needed for the squad cars. I really fail to see any cost savings for a town going this route. | ||
| 1313 |
Seen at Laguna Seca during the WSBK races:      It was pretty 'freaky' when the officer riding it snuck up silently behind me, 1313 | ||
| Rick_a |
I worked at an H-D dealership that serviced the local police bikes. Aside from frequently replacing worn floorboards there was little else required from regular maintenance. It's certainly not the best choice in police motorcycles, me thinks, but the cops who had to ride them all day liked them. I'm sure Court has an unbelievable insider story he'll never tell... Stealth motorcycle...that's rich. Not drinking the electric cool aid just yet. | ||
| Ezblast |
it IS pretty cool but those bikes should be 7999.00. - same time Buell sells their bikes for that - it will happen - sigh... Cheap BSTD - lol EZ | ||
| Sifo |
Seen at Laguna Seca during the WSBK races: Exactly what I was saying. It might make an OK "event" tool, but not a daily patrol bike. Of course the daily patrol bike could also be used pretty well for the "event" tool. For the most part, I don't see the need. It's tax payer money though, so who cares! | ||
| Ratbuell |
I think folks are losing sight of exactly how much the emergency response kits cost...the *motorcycle* may very well be 7999....the "police" part is where the expense is. Lightheads. Wiring. Siren/PA. Comm/radio. Install labor. Every department has their own spec - "X buttons on this hand control to run lights; flash patterns of X Y and Z accessible by 1, 2, or 3 button presses. X red and Y blue lights front, side, and rear facing. Ability to turn off rear lights for parade duty. Siren with yelp, wail, and PA capability and at least xxx db volume. Lights from A, B, or C manufacturer with minimum of X square inches of lighting surface." And the specs go on...try reading one sometime if you think I'm making it up. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
It's tax payer money though, so who cares!  | ||
| Froggy |
That likely wasn't city driving and parade duty. Mid 40s is pretty terrible regardless of how it is ridden. Zero's get 462 MPGe in the city.
Exactly, which is why it is stupid to have cops on an uncomfortable, heavy, heat spewing gas guzzling tank.
Nope. Even if they manage to drive around 150-200 miles and deplete the battery, it can be recharged to 95% in under an hour. Drive around all day in the morning, plug it in while you get lunch, then finish up your shift.
Yep, another reason to ditch machines constantly down for expensive maintenance.
It can be refueled on the road at the same places cars are refueled.
So something that is cheaper to own, cheaper to operate, and cheaper to keep running won't save money?
So the police don't service it themselves like they do the rest of their fleet? Driving up costs by outsourcing it to a dealer for expensive maintenance. An oil change at my dealer for a big twin is $109+ tax and fees, you don't want to know how much for an actual service! Every bullet point is more taxpayer money:  | ||
| Xdigitalx |
ZeroDS: 17,490.00 Honda crf 250: 4,999.00 | ||
| Sifo |
Zero's get 462 MPGe in the city.  Sadly MPGe is a government policy that has nothing whatsoever to do with Department of Energy energy equivalencies. Propaganda would be the appropriate word. Riders of them disagree. I have no idea how comfortable a ZERO is, so I won't make any claims. Nope. Even if they manage to drive around 150-200 miles and deplete the battery, it can be recharged to 95% in under an hour. Drive around all day in the morning, plug it in while you get lunch, then finish up your shift. If you are going to keep comparing this to the typical cop bike, lets keep doing that comparison. Cop bikes are typically used to patrol highways. They put on a lot of miles in a day. Depending on model, the claimed highway range is 60 to 101 miles. Stop pulling numbers out of your warm moist place. The best claimed range for their biggest battery is still only 164 miles. But then you are putting them out there on a 95% charge, and you do have to allow some level of safety range to get home. That 95% charge requires an expensive, specialized charger too. You really lose the argument when you fabricate your claims. Yep, another reason to ditch machines constantly down for expensive maintenance. Like having to down it multiple times per shift to hook up to an expensive piece of single purpose equipment? It can be refueled on the road at the same places cars are refueled. You can refuel a car at any gas station. Not your ZERO. Of course most police tend to use a municipal pump for refueling. Now you want to add more equipment for refueling purposes the take a long time to refuel the vehicle? This will require multiple stations if you want to keep multiple bikes on the road. Equipment and space cost cash! So something that is cheaper to own, cheaper to operate, and cheaper to keep running won't save money? It would if it were. It's also unproven at this point in time. So the police don't service it themselves like they do the rest of their fleet? Driving up costs by outsourcing it to a dealer for expensive maintenance. An oil change at my dealer for a big twin is $109+ tax and fees, you don't want to know how much for an actual service! Every bullet point is more taxpayer money: If they don't negotiate fleet pricing they are being irresponsible with tax payer money. They should never be paying anything near what the general population pays. I've worked in the fleet vehicle leasing industry. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I've often wondered why police don't use DR650 or KLR560s. All they would have to do is enhance the charging system. From what I have seen, police generally use their bikes as mobile light installations. They drive up to a place and flip the lights on and direct traffic. Perhaps the electric bike thing makes the most sense from that standpoint. ALL it has is a huge battery. Leave the blue lights flashing for crazy amounts of time so long as it barely has enough suds to get you back to the station when you're done directing traffic/crowd control. Electric bikes might very well be most ideally suited for this sort of thing as well as delivering stuff on a fixed predictable route. | ||
| Sifo |
I think folks are losing sight of exactly how much the emergency response kits cost...the *motorcycle* may very well be 7999....the "police" part is where the expense is. Lightheads. Wiring. Siren/PA. Comm/radio. Install labor. Every department has their own spec - "X buttons on this hand control to run lights; flash patterns of X Y and Z accessible by 1, 2, or 3 button presses. X red and Y blue lights front, side, and rear facing. Ability to turn off rear lights for parade duty. Siren with yelp, wail, and PA capability and at least xxx db volume. Lights from A, B, or C manufacturer with minimum of X square inches of lighting surface." And the specs go on...try reading one sometime if you think I'm making it up. How much should all of this cost. Figure roughly $1,500 for the GIVI cases. That's probably high. How much can the radio and lights really cost? A few thousand? If every police dept. really feels the need to spend thousands extra to spec things EXACTLY how some keyboard driver bureaucrat thinks they want, then we have really identified a huge problem. Not with the hardware, but with government. NO, it should NOT cost that much. I'm not saying it doesn't, but it shouldn't. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I am not against Ebikes. I think they ar etoys now but could become more in the future...prices gotta come down bigtime. Look at the way some large warehouse/logistics companies use their Electric forklifts & charger stations, they have it down pretty good. (for that purpose anyways) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well with no radio/PA or special specs, the lighting-only kit for the XP was...$5k retail? And all it included was lights, brackets, harness, brain, buttons, and siren. Look at the price of LED off road lights somewhere like quadratic - they're pricey. Factor in making custom harnesses to for departmental specs...custom brackets...it all adds up. Quickly. That hero may very well be HALF of the total price, depending on the pursuit package. And, at least around here, motors are limited to NON highway use and are forbidden from pursuit action if a subject flees. They are primarily first responder vehicles, and agile in-town patrol units. High speed, the FLH blows. Low-speed? Watch a police rodeo sometime. If the hero is going to be an urban patrol unit...I think it has excellent potential. And...the ONLY way electrics are going to get better and have increased range / decreased charge cycles, is to get some on the road and evaluate. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Quadratec. GDMF "autocorrect"...  | ||
| Court |
>>>>How much can the radio and lights really cost? Toss in $3,000 for the latest Motorola bike radio. I suspect, in the instant case, that all they are equipping it with is a siren/PA and providing heavy power wire (#10) to the radio tray . . . if it's just siren/PA, figure $1,500. LED's can add $250 per head. I do notice that the Zero uses about 1/3 the number of heads that the Uly XP did. | ||
| Strokizator |
So the police don't service it themselves like they do the rest of their fleet? Nope, the local BMW dealership services the police bikes, and maybe the CHP too. Local motoX shop got the contract with the sheriff dept. for the DRZ's. I doubt they pay "shop" rates and probably negotiate the fees for routine services as well as the hourly fee for other work. I just read an article where MCN tested a $20,000 Zero so I guess you can easily pay that much. More if you buy the quick charger ($1800). |
