| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
"It's not. Please elaborate." Slavery is immoral and evil. You should be able to connect the dots. | ||
| Court |
>>>why is Eric Holder allowing this type of racial animus I may be able to help here . . .I got to spend a hour sitting and talking with Eric Holder. My take is that he's not all that smart nor qualified. When I studied his resume' I understood why and, in my summary, I felt "he's never climbed to the top of anything . . he has always been lifted by someone or some program and placed somewhere". In addition, Holder pretty much forever lost his credibility when he ignored, tacitly approving the behavior of, a black panther threatening a poll worker with a baseball bat. Obama has impressed me this go round. He's shot his mouth off in the past, said some incredibly stupid stuff and it appears being slapped on the nose has worked, at least short term, with him. I haven't any fact to make any of the conclusions folks seem so eager to leap to. But, as bits and pieces emerge it appears the officer's story is spot on accurate and the shooting was totally justified. It's still a shame that it had to happen. In addition, Ferguson (a pit of a town) needs to get off their collective common al ass and start making their police force look more like their community. The community is 70% black and the police, most of whom live far away in other communities, are mostly white. It may be be an explanation, but it's still not good practice. Not sure about the "gun problem". I live in New York City which, along with Chicago, has pretty much the toughest handgun laws in the world. There have been something like 29 shootings the last 3 days and, although crime is down 3%, shootings are up 10% for the year. In Chicago . . shootings are through the roof and out of control. I expect to see many more occurrences similar to Ferguson during the next 2 years. | ||
| Fredfast |
"You should be able to connect the dots." I did but wanted to see if you would put it in print. | ||
| Court |
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| Blake |
Those UK cops are so tough. Since when is shooting an innocent unarmed man in the back worthy of such admiration?
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/24/july7.uk security3 The tough British bobbies thought he was a terrorist. Another thought he saw a gun. The Ferguson officer endured having his face smashed-in then persevered only to face another violent attack before shooting the thug. (Message edited by blake on August 19, 2014) | ||
| Blake |
Don't carry a table leg around in London. Despite the actual gun ban, you'll frighten the tough cops there so bad they'll have to shoot you. How sad is that? (Message edited by Blake on August 19, 2014) | ||
| Tootal |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5ISdvg7224 Here's a preacher with a different view than most! As far as who did what, the video where the guy in the background is telling what happened pretty much went along with what the cop said. Today they were talking about how the cop was suffering from a cracked eye socket from Brown's first hit. It's amazing he could still see well enough to shoot him. | ||
| Gaesati |
It is really sad that these things happen worldwide! In my country it is a source of shame to me that in 2014 our indigenous population has lower literacy, higher child mortality, higher unemployment, higher rates of domestic violence, higher rates of drug abuse and is massively over represented in the prison population. The combination of alienation, racism and the sense of disenfranchisement, I think, leads to these outcomes. How should a just society address this situation other than by suppression and punishment? | ||
| Hootowl |
"I did but wanted to see if you would put it in print" Um. OK. I find that I am understanding you less and less. | ||
| Pwnzor |
WHEN will you guys understand that there is NOTHING to understand.  | ||
| Blake |
Gaesati, If it's anything like here, it's the clear result of govt policy. First govt policy said they werent human beings, mere property. A century later after having gained their freedom, we told them they weren't good enough, they needed special help, handouts, free lodging, we said that their school children could matriculate no matter their performance; "they deserved it cause they were disadvantaged" we said; "it's social justice" we said. Then govt policy told them that they were better off without a husband. "We'll pay for your children; you dont need a husband or to be responsible" we said. Then govt policy taught them that it was better for them to kill their unborn children than to cherish them. Pure ••••••• evil that. Now it's govt policy to sustain all those policies and keep reminding them that they are victims, not good enough, and so entitled to be looked after. There's not much more demoralizing than what we've done to our black brothers and sisters here in America. We teach that they are subpar humans, victims and that the lives of their children are worthless. We stand by and watch as young men slaughter each other, day-after-day-after year after decade... Drugs, crime, zero respect for life. We've taught them well. Our media are cowards and scoundrels unwilling to tackle the tough issues, unwilling to admit the truth. They only know the same despicable evil narrative. (Message edited by blake on August 19, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I meant no reference to physical strength. Of course, American police officers are the toughest in that sense (yawn). I was actually referring to British policing, which is likely the toughest in the world. What happened in Ferguson would very likely NOT have happened in the UK. Why, because a police officer would not have put himself in that situation (through a car window). In the case of an armed British police officer, you would likely not get near the vehicle before you were dealt with. Likely dealt with by taser, and highly unlikely by one police officer. Armed regular police officers DO NOT patrol on their own. Rocket in England | ||
| Gaesati |
"They only know the same evil narrative" how true! If only the media refrained from commentary and had the ethic to just report the facts without dramatics, selectivity or embellishment. Unfortunately , sensationalism sells for the media The same is also true for film and TV melodrama which create images of types of behaviour which we, as part of the masses, are seduced into imitating. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Don't carry a table leg around in London. Despite the actual gun ban, you'll frighten the tough cops there so bad they'll have to shoot you. How sad is that? It's a tragedy, but the police shooting of this person is not in any way comparable to the Ferguson case, or indeed to police officers carrying sidearms. The table leg was mistaken for a gun by police marksmen. The incident was a controlled by police scene. This was not a random event where a sole police officer had to make a quick decision on how best to protect himself. Unfortunate, sad, and tragic, it's hard to quantify this event in any argument to or for gun use by police. Suffice to say, the police were negligent in their duty to protect this man, but many would argue otherwise. There really are no winners in this case, but lessons will have been learned. As for DeMenezes, many mistakes were made by police. A cover up has occurred, and without excuse those police that day were expecting they'd got themselves a London bomber. Those police were not armed officers patrolling the streets of the UK. They were 'specials' who had acted upon information and got it badly wrong, but they went prepared with prior knowledge. What is sad Blake is that you would put up such incidents to support an argument that police are justified in carrying guns and using them at their own discretion when both these incident were not discretionary use of guns, but controlled and well organised incidents. Now if they can get these wrong, it doesn't look good for the lone police officer to be armed and decide best when they should use their gun does it. Rocket in England | ||
| Fast1075 |
Tag line on an MSN article this morning. "Demonstrators protest Michael Brown's murder". This is the kind of dishonest crap fed to us by "media". Darwin's laws prevail. The community is relieved from another lawless, immoral thug. | ||
| Gaesati |
" ....another lawless immoral thug" yes, but how many new ones are being created by the conditions that gave rise to this one? | ||
| Gaesati |
" the community is relieved of another lawless, immoral thug" perhaps, but how many new one will be created by the conditions that gave rise to this one and the perceived circumstances of his death? It took a royal commission into indigenous deaths in custody to even begin to address indigenous anger and distrust in my country and there is still a widespread resentment of lawful authority. | ||
| Reindog |
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| Tootal |
Yet nobody is protesting here! https://www.yahoo.com/screen/two-charged-beating-p ark-ranger-094800296.html | ||
| Hootowl |
Doesn't fit the narrative. | ||
| Gaesati |
"Doesn't fit the narrative" so true. How does society as a whole get control of the narrative because it seems to be the case because it seems that western society has lost control of it in every western country? | ||
| Fast1075 |
I am so tired of some of this. My Great Great Grandfather was an indentured servant. My Great Grandfather and my Grandfather were sharecroppers. My father was a migrant farm worker who put down roots, saw to my education and my moral upbringing. Society does not owe me shit! | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm certainly not cheering the death of the Brown fellow. That's just not nice. He may or may not have been a bad guy normally, but it does appear he had one really bad day. I'm still waiting for the investigations to conclude. I am confused by Rocket's portrayal of the British police. He insists that the shooting of the Brown fellow would not have happened in England, and that may be true, but I can't figure out if it's because the Police there would not have confronted a man walking down the middle of the street at all, or would have killed him quickly, efficiently, and then lied about it, so there would have been no looting. Didn't they have a bit of looting in a London suburb a while back? Something about a police shoot? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots There's a bit of unneeded emotional crap on this thread. ( even ignoring the mentally Ill guy who chooses any position against the honest folk here for his crippled emotion amusement ) The shooting was a tragedy. These things always are, and it's worse when it's a bad cop thing than when it's a violent criminal thing. Because police should be held to a higher standard. When it's a case like the one where they shot the guy sitting on a porch with no warning or good faith attempt to resolve the problem, it's beyond criminal, and the ones responsible should be prosecuted.. And their leaders should be fired and Worse because they created the mentality that leads to Cops killing without cause. Not acceptable. Period. | ||
| Macbuell |
Didn't an innocent soldier just walking down the street get beheaded with a machete in broad daylight on a city street in London. Too bad those UK Supercops were no where to be found. (Message edited by macbuell on August 20, 2014) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Gaesati, unequal outcomes are great things to examine when looking to find where some kind of investment may be able to bring huge benefits. I think you have it exactly right there. But equal outcomes themselves aren't the goal. Nearly every system in the universe, be it natural or man made, manifests some kind of bell shaped curve in outcomes with lots of people in the middle, and a small number of people WAYYYYY different at both extremes above and below. Looking at outcomes is a great way to identify potential issues in opportunity. But equal opportunity should be the agenda, and outcomes will be "they are what they are", and only focusing on outcomes generally makes the situation even worse. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140820/192185875/US-Shoul d-Pay-More-Attention-to-Internal-Race-Related-Issu es-.html Since the race issues in the US since WW2 have been in large part encouraged and in some cases sponsored by the Soviets my response to the Russian Diplomat cannot be printed here. As an example I note the President's adopted church of liberation theology, which has it's roots in the Soviet era, when the Soviets wanted to gain power, first in the Catholic countries of South America, and shortly after, the US Urban black churches preaching racism, envy, and hatred. ( plenty of documentation available on request..... Most of what the Liberation Theology folk tell you is a lie. ) The Soviets also sponsored the Green party in Europe ( especially Germany ) in the same time frame, to destroy Western Industry in the ongoing War on democracies. The origins of both religions are obvious when you notice that lying to win is the basis for all of the neo-Marxist faiths. Reepicheep has a good point. "opportunity equality" is removing the artificial obstacles to give anyone a shot at succeeding through hard work. "outcome equality" only happens when you steal from the productive and hard working to drag everyone down. The difference is between Freedom, and Slavery. And it's even a lie that all slaves are equal. The people whipping up trouble in Ferguson are using hate to gain power. It's pretty much the definition of evil. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/385777/fergu son-race-be-wrong-jonah-goldberg The events in Ferguson, Mo., have launched a familiar spectacle: the race to be wrong first. Look at the bright side, once Holder's Very Criminal Justice dept. publishes it's findings we will finally know the Pravda of the shooting. Whatever Holder says will with very high probability be a lie. ( based on past performance and inclination ) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/385718/living -out-critical-legal-theory-victor-davis-hanson And so we get the disreputable Malik Shabazz as a Robespierre-like street arbitrator of calm or violence in Ferguson, various ethnic pressure groups as de facto legislators adjudicating who will be granted access to the United States, and the current administration able to pick and choose which particular existing federal law is deemed fair and useful and which discriminatory and counter-productive — and rendered therefore null and void. In all these cases, any particular law at any particular moment can be judged obsolete and an impediment to social justice — and so it can be replaced immediately by a sort of revolutionary justice with the full backing of the administrative state. In that sense, even the old racial warhorses Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have become passé, as we’ve evolved now well beyond the misinformation and racialist politics of the Tawana Brawley carnival, the Duke Lacrosse caper, and the Trayvon Martin controversy. And so what was once written off as street theater has now been elevated to revolutionary jurisprudence — a lasting legacy of the Obama administration in general, and in particular the Holder Justice Department. I think all that is what the confident Mr. Shabazz was trying to encapsulate to a receptive but somewhat baffled Mr. Johnson at the press conference on Saturday. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/385809/no-it s-not-our-fault-jim-geraghty ..the only individuals who seem to escape blame for the conditions of America’s poorest, most crime-ridden, opportunity-deprived, and despairing communities are the elected officials who actually govern these communities. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/385518/who-l ost-cities-kevin-d-williamson Progressives spent a generation imposing taxes and other expenses on urban populations as though the taxpaying middle class would not relocate. They protected the defective cartel system of public education, and the union money and votes associated with it, as though middle-class parents would not move to places that had better schools. They imposed burdens on businesses, in exchange for more union money and votes, as though businesses would not shift production elsewhere. They imposed policies that disincentivized stable family arrangements as though doing so would have no social cost. And they did so while adhering to a political philosophy that holds that the state, not the family or the market, is the central actor in our lives, that the interests of private parties — be they taxpayers or businesses — can and indeed must be subordinated to the state’s interests, as though individuals and families were nothing more than gears in the great machine of politics. The philosophy of abusive eminent domain, government monopolies, and opportunistic taxation is also the philosophy of police brutality, the repression of free speech and other constitutional rights, and economic despair. Frank Rizzo was not a paradox — he was an inevitability. When life is reduced to the terms in which it is lived in the poorest and most neglected parts of Chicago or Detroit, the welfare state is the police state. Why should we expect the agents of the government who carry guns and badges to be in general better behaved than those at the IRS or the National Labor Relations Board? We have city councils that conduct their affairs in convenient secrecy and put their own interests above those of the communities that they allege to serve, and yet we naïvely think that when that self-serving process is used to hire a police commissioner or to organize a police department, then we’ll get saints and Einsteins out of all that muck. The more progressive the city, the worse a place it is to be poor and/or black. The most pronounced economic inequality in the United States is not in some Republican redoubt in Texas but in San Francisco, an extraordinarily expensive city in which half of all black households make do with less than $25,000 a year. Blacks in San Francisco are arrested on drug felonies at ten times their share of the general population. At 6 percent of the population, they represent 40 percent of those arrested for homicides. Whether you believe that that is the result of a racially biased criminal-justice system or the result of higher crime incidence related to socioeconomic conditions within black communities (or some combination of those factors) what is undeniable is that results for black Americans are far worse in our most progressive, Democrat-dominated cities than they are elsewhere. The progressives have had the run of things for a generation in these cities, and the results are precisely what you see. I realize that the above commentaries are chock full of historical references that will anger the trolls because of their abject ignorance, and belief that using such references is insulting to the self righteous stupid. Too bad. IF You don't know that the Dutch had a Tulip craze and people mortgaged their homes to buy a handful of tulip bulbs, only to lose everything when the bubble burst, as it ALWAYS has, THEN you blame others for the Real Estate Craze where people were playing "flip this house" with no knowledge of the system they didn't get from TV shows...... and the bubble burst. The same thing is true when you demand "social justice", and don't know where the concept came from or it's long and bloody history of oppressing the people it's "supposed" to help while making the ruthless and evil rich and powerful.... as it ALWAYS has. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/385798/unarm ed-man-six-shots-charles-c-w-cooke Worth a read in it's entirety. So I'll skip the cut and paste. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/385850/misso uri-gun-store-owners-our-customers-are-terrified-n ot-cops-katherine-timpf More evidence that the "media" is largely at fault....or at least lies too much to be trusted. Pity. It was a Golden age when "speak truth to power" was an ideal, not a chant. http://www.nationalreview.com/slideshows/385856 AND..... when the people who are "reporters" are so ignorant that they don't know when they are looking at earplugs...... there is NO REASON to trust these people. And that just sucks. (Message edited by aesquire on August 20, 2014) |
