| Author | Message | ||
     Thumper1203 |
Court.. fantastically worded post, hammer on the nail head.. boy o' boy, do I ever concur.. Blake, great video post-up ^^^ It's going to be interesting as to where the media takes it from here.. (Message edited by thumper1203 on April 25, 2014) | ||
| Oldog |
What I dont get is that there was a similar incident where the rancher was an american indian, and only a blip on fox and no play else were the left will try to make it about bundy himself, vs the land grab, Texas is also going to be interesting, the BLM has lost its way or worse is the tool of corrupt politicos | ||
| Aussie2126 |
The administration should, for their illegal actions and trampling of the due process provisions of the Constitution, be ashamed. They are rank amateurs. } Legal actions 1998 to 2012 United States v. Bundy "arose out of Bundy’s unauthorized grazing of his livestock on property owned by the United States and administered by the Department of the Interior through the BLM and the National Park Service." According to the case, "On November 3, 1998, the Court issued an order permanently enjoining Bundy from grazing his livestock on the former Bunkerville Allotment ('The Allotment'), and ordering him to remove his livestock no later than November 30, 1998, and pay damages to the United States in the amount of $200 per day per head for any remaining livestock on the allotment after November 30, 1998." The court stated that "  t]he government has shown commendable restraint in allowing this trespass to continue for so long without impounding Bundy’s livestock." On September 17, 1999, after Bundy failed to comply with the court’s earlier order(s), the court issued another order directing Bundy to comply with the 1998 permanent injunction and modifying the trespass damages owed. Legal actions 2012 to 2014 The cattle expanded into additional public lands over the years. In May 2012, the United States again initiated United States v. Bundy,[a] seeking relief for Bundy's trespassing on a new set of additional lands not covered by the original 1998 ruling. On December 21, 2012 the United States moved for summary judgment in this new case. This motion was granted in an order signed by Judge Lloyd D. George on July 9, 2013. The ruling permanently enjoined Bundy and his cattle from trespassing on the Bunkerville Allotment, the Gold Butte area, and parts of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Another order was issued in October 8, 2013, stemming from the earlier 1998 civil action against Bundy. The orders allow the United States to protect the land from Bundy and to seize any of his cattle that remains in those areas. Trampling of due process - that's what it is!!! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Aussie, that was land granted to the federal government with the condition it be available for grazing. The federal government is using bureaucratic procedures to (at best) protect the habitat of a turtle that has coexisted happily with the grazing for about 100 years now, or (at worst) freeing up the land for a powerful politician to give to a private corporation associated with a foreign country to set up a solar power factory in exchange for personal benefits for said politician. Do you really think tanks and snipers pointing loaded weapons at people that represent no threat are acceptable? Do you think there should have been tanks and snipers at the Occupy Wall Street protests? I don't know anything about Bundy, if he is a racist or a patriot (or both). I do know that the current administration has shown little respect for the rule of law however... and as a result they have opened the door for this kind of civil disobedience. Did Bundy get due process, and was the case just? Beats me, but when the president says "I have a phone and a pen" in response to concerns about rule of law, and while the attorney general flagrantly stands in contempt of congress in failing to turn over communications that were part of the official work of the US government, I can say I'm not sure what justice and due process means anymore. When rule of law falls, even for a "good cause", chaos and violence will follow. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Just a question here. On Fox news a couple of days ago; sorry I do not have a video of it, but; Judge Napolitano said, paraphrasing, "There is no provision in the Constitution to allow the Federal government to own land in the United States". Would anybody here have the video or care to comment on that? If that's true, then as I said before, the BLM (Bureau of Land "Management") only "manages" or administers what the owners, you and I and all the folks, want it to do and no matter which way the left tries to steer the conversation to racism, its still about government land grab as also in all the different municipalities "eminent domain" laws taking private land, homes and businesses from individuals. WE NEED TO PUT A STOP TO ALL THIS GOVERNMENT DICTATORSHIP! Period. Too many patriotic citizens are being hurt forever with this government as it works right now. A big change is needed.......... yesterday. Vote the bums out, NOW! | ||
| Sifo |
One thing that really struck me as odd from the very first story that I read about this situation with Bundy. They made it a point to point out that he was a "devout Mormon". I've seen this pointed out numerous times in various "news" reports. Why is that a fact worth mentioning? Probably for the same reason that it was important to keep reminding people that Mitt Romney was a Mormon. Because they see it as a negative to paint someone with. Personally, I have some strong disagreements with the Mormon religion. I'm sure I have many areas on which I would disagree strongly with Bundy. None of that changes the simple fact that he is a victim of an overreaching government. His view on race, religion, politics, foreign policy, etc. have nothing to do with the fact that his rights are being trampled by our own government. If you are OK with this happening, they you had better have the understanding that the ONLY protection you have from something similar happening to you is to have nothing that you own. Only then can they take nothing from you. At that point you literally are a slave owned by the government. The only difference between that and what we traditionally think of as slavery is who owns you. This is a basic human right. Ignore this and we have nothing at all. I can put aside some pretty big differences to stand with anyone who understands, and is willing to fight for this simple principle. | ||
| Sifo |
If that's true, then as I said before, the BLM (Bureau of Land "Management") only "manages" or administers what the owners, you and I and all the folks, want it to do and no matter which way the left tries to steer the conversation to racism, its still about government land grab as also in all the different municipalities "eminent domain" laws taking private land, homes and businesses from individuals. I'm not even clear that they have the right to "manage" the land. I posted earlier in this thread a map showing federal "ownership" of the land of various states. The feds "own" almost nothing of the original states. There's a good reason for this. The feds have no claim to ownership of a state without the state's consent. That's assuming that you accept the feds have the right to own land in the first place. Personally, I see that as reasonable in many cases. Somewhere along the line though, things changed drastically. Not in the words in the Constitution, but in how those words are being put into action. It's the states that were added later in history that only got statehood on the condition that the state doesn't own the land. This is blatant coercion on the part of the federal government and should not be recognized as legitimate. Our federal government is made from a union of individual states. The states are not granted existence by a higher authority. It's time to set things right. | ||
| Buellkowski |
U.S. public lands are designated by Congress (your representatives), or by the President by authority of the Antiquities Act (passed by Congress, your representatives). The Feds (through BLM and other federal agencies) manage the land, they don't "own" it. Want a piece of public land to revert to state or private control? Tell your Congresspeople. They're the ones who can change the laws you don't like. You "patriots" seem to believe taking up arms is the first thing to do. Holding up the example of a racist, deadbeat rancher who won't pay the fees everyone else does is not honorable. I wonder how much lobbying of his elected representatives he's done since he quit paying his grazing fees in 1993? I know of over half a million US citizens who are essentially under the direct control of the US Congress, who are taxed without federal representation. Why aren't you "patriots" over there encouraging them to arm, resist, secede, etc. against federal tyranny? Oh wait...  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Uh, who started pointing rifles at whom in this case? | ||
| Sifo |
Buellkowski, I recognize that you will probably not get a response from you on this, but I'll go anyway. Does it REALLY make sense to you that ME living here in Illinois should be able to elect someone to congress that will then have power over how land that YOU own in Washington gets used? Is that really how you see our government working? You "patriots" seem to believe taking up arms is the first thing to do. Holding up the example of a racist, deadbeat rancher who won't pay the fees everyone else does is not honorable. I wonder how much lobbying of his elected representatives he's done since he quit paying his grazing fees in 1993? Who else is paying this grazing fee? The correct answer is NOBODY. There were 53 ranchers in the area when they put these new "grazing fees" into place. They only allow grazing fees for a total of 150 cattle though. That's a total of three cows per ranch! You can't make a single ranch work with 150 cattle. This isn't a "grazing fee", this is notice that they want you gone. Other points you try to raise here are completely off topic. | ||
| Sifo |
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| Sifo |
Just in case anyone cares to hear Cliven Bundy's comments, in context, in his own words as he said them. | ||
| Reepicheep |
And... the rest of the story.... http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/unedited-tape-bund y-emerges-sheds-light-racist-remarks | ||
| Oldog |
Holding up the example of a racist, deadbeat rancher who won't pay the fees everyone else does is not honorable. a. Mr Bundys belief system is not at issue, b. the land related issues have been circulating in the courts for over a decade, the fed breached contract, and have dome some other questionable things. c.Bundy's "Representative" in the poster child for Corrupt government, so little good it did him to seek redress, (Harry is being investigated by the senate now.) lets talk about the first amendment zones set up by the blm, or the destruction of Bundy's property I agree that we should take up the issues with our duly elected representatives FIRST, but the facts point to that it was done long ago and the results were less than satisfactory, Jefferson said it best [paraphrase] "there comes a time when the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of free men and tyrants", the blm has handled it in a most tyranical way seizing/destroying property - and trying to hide their actions. Its time to stand up to the corrupt over reach of this government and either remove the corruption or the government it self I prefer the former start with obama, biden, holder, pelosi, reid, feinstien, boxer, rice, hagen ( see a pattern? ) the constitution has no provision for the rule by pen and the phone, nor for the fed to own property. so Even though I don't care for racism, I deplore the Abuse of Cliven Bundy's rights by OUR government, BTW the blm folks are not elected and seem to think that they can do what they want.... Watch Texas... | ||
| Blake |
Oldog, Start with the insidiously corrupt media. Actually, start with a revival of Christianity and morality. The accelerating decline of respect for our creator and his laws is at the heart of all the immorality, deceit, and corruption in America. It's ultimately pointless to battle symptoms but not the root cause of decay. Recall what John Adams said about our Constitution? "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." First and foremost, America needs repentance. Pray it happens. | ||
| Oldog |
Blake: I tend to ignore / ridicule the sharpton-matthews types, and their employing media outlets, some of the nonsense they spew is beyond lying or belief... I filter any other as objectively as I can. C-span is about as good as it gets the other points I agree, you know that all things made by men are flawed, as are all men only the creator [GOD] is perfect. America's repentance starts with each of us. I am reminded of one of my favorite stories of forgiveness, where the adulteress is caught in the act, brought before the village and is about to be stoned to death, what did Christ say?, Let he who is sinless cast the first stone. As we go thru this time and see the wanton acts of some who were charged with doing the public work. I find Jim with a stone in hand, until that changes we are in a mess, | ||
| Buellinmke |
You cowardly clowns are all a bunch of blowhards. You've been complaining about the current administration for at least 4 years now, but you're not man enough to stick to your word and do what you feel is right.
Link to Blake's post Myself and my friends honorably serving our country and defending our constitution are ready for you. We've been ready for you. Please, start your fight. Stop being cowards and do what you said you would do. You've spent the past 4 years complaining. Now it's time to man up and put your words to action. Quit wringing your hands and crying like little girls and bring your fight. We are ready for you to start watering your tree of liberty. Please. Put up or shut up. | ||
| Fredfast |
Buellkowski  | ||
| Aesquire |
Joe if Jeb Bush becomes prez ( shudder ) and goes dictator which side of the barricades will you be on? I'll be on the side of Constitutional rule. I understand those who believe in freedom for the individual are a minority. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Buellinmike... can you honestly say you have no concerns about the erosion of rule of law relative to power of the Federal Government? Are you really ready to shoot citizens? Were you ready to roll and execute the occupy wall street protesters? | ||
| Reindog |
Good to see you back Buellinmke and Buellkowski. Since you lost every single argument and went silent a long time ago, I figured you had ridden your cool Buells off into the sunset. Buellinmke, in the spirit of amity, you might consider switching to Sanka. | ||
| Hootowl |
Military sure has changed. When I was in, we were all on the citizen's side. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Buellinmke>willing to defend the constitution in whatever twisted definition some political fatcat has twisted it into. Get into that oven you old white racist piece of garbage. | ||
| Sifo |
Myself and my friends honorably serving our country and defending our constitution are ready for you. We've been ready for you. Please, start your fight. Stop being cowards and do what you said you would do. I wonder if you even understand that what you are implying would be a direct violation of the very Constitution which you claim to be defending? | ||
| Oldog |
We are ready for you to start watering your tree of liberty. If you are an AMERICAN how is it not your tree? Myself and my friends honorably serving our country and defending our constitution Have you not asked why? about some aspects of the actions of the EPA, BLM, ATF, IRS? The men who murdered innocents in Germany in WW2 did not question orders they just followed them is that your MO ? or are you beginning to question why, Citizens are being spied on groups that oppose the curent admins political agenda are being targeted by IRS why has the DOJ not provided the documents demanded legally by the HOUSE W&M? Why is the benghazi investigation being stonewalled? why are the health care laws being selectively enforced? just following orders?? If this country can't be rid of the current crop of crooks, it may come to violence The germans who ran the camps or the americans who ran the internment camps were following orders, its a matter of prospective, The only authority that any soldier or law officer has is what the constitution grants, when the government goes beyond its lawful bounds the followers say the orders were lawful the opposition does not. is taking a mans property on bureaucratic technicalities, of no consequence?, what happens when some petty thug decides they don't like bikers? | ||
| Sifo |
BTW, Should the need arise, Blake will not be standing alone. | ||
| Fredfast |
You guys really need another outlet. You might try bowling. (Message edited by fredfast on April 25, 2014) | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Thanks Sifo for the video. The media absolutely tried to make him a racist.....seems to me,he IS NOT.....after watching what he actually meant before the media(or whoever) tried to destroy him by creative editing  Sadly,the racist part will be taken as a true fact by the coffee shop gossip,regardless of the video. | ||
| Reindog |
Bundy is clearly a racist in the same vein as Sharpton and Jackson but the BLM's abuse of power using guns is not a race issue. The MSM is deflecting from the real issue and weak minded people fall for it...as usual. | ||
| Blake |
Joe, If you are truly willing to fight to uphold the integrity of the rule of law per our constitution, then we are not enemies, but allies and patriots alike. Your frustration is understandable, Your guy in the White House is a serial liar who has failed egregiously, his signature triumph, the Affordable Care & Patient Protection Act aka "Obamacare" is a wildly unpopular abject failure, his foreign policy is a laughing stock worldwide, and even with the media and senate Democrats running cover, scandal after scandal after scandal plagues his administration; he lied, people died, Fast & Furious; he acted cowardly, people died, then he lied to try to cover it up, Benghazi. So I sympathize, really I do. I sincerely wish none of those bad things had happened and America was back to working. But they did happen, and the IRS is being used as a political weapon, the EPA, HHS, BLM, DOE, FCC, DHS, DOD and especially DOJ have all been corrupted for partisan political gain. Take some time and come to terms with reality, the sad state of our nation, then join your patriotic brothers in calling for justice and a return to the strict rule of law among the elites in Washington, DC. And repent. |
