| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
"Clearly this country has had the strongest rebound since Bushes world economic debacle" I agree. Since there has been only ONE recovery since Bush left office, it has been the strongest recovery since Bush left office. But by that logic, it is also the weakest. And if you remove the boundary of "since bush" and look at ALL the recoveries in our history, this has been the weakest by far. Your view of the world is being obscured by Obama's duodenum. | ||
| Court |
We also have, simultaneously . .
There was a time that the obama administration was an embarrassment and disappointment to Republicans. That sorry condition now includes Republicans and a number of Democrats that is grows daily. We he was making decisions folks didn't agree with . . . we had debate. When he started intentionally and blatantly lying . . . the numbers began to fall fast among both parties. The news today is all about the fact that the resident, once again, misspoke . . the Uncle "I have never met" . . turns out that he lived with him for a period of time. Sigh. And we have a guy who was made (he earned nothing based on performance or competent) head of the Law Review . . but NEVER wrote a single law review . . there's a dandy for you. We're in this pattern until he leaves office. Batten down. | ||
| Sifo |
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| Fb1 |
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| Aesquire |
I didn't see Wiccans or Asatru on that list. Racists!.... I mean, what's the word for anti-religion-ists? Garryb, I'm wrong on some things, and will defend my opinions, AND change my mind when it turns out I'm wrong, based on facts, and occasionally logic. (Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. ) I try not to weasel out of a discussion by using ad hominem attacks, or by using irrelevancies, But I do slip up sometimes. Here's a list of crap argument techniques. It's quite useful when you listen to politicians. http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/argumen ts.html You could have a drinking game with that list, but if you do it during a typical run on endless Obama Speech, you'd probably die from alcohol poisoning. He loves to go on 45 min. +. A typical Bush the Younger Speech can also get you smashed. ( you'll have to play old Bush speeches, since he no longer gives them as Prez ) But I usually prefer articles like this... http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2008/02/26/sa nd_wont_save_you_this_time.php Partly because the little kid in me loves things that burn intensely, or go bang, and the adult in me has worked hard to prevent those things. ( years of machining flammable metals, and reading MSDS ) Here's an interesting take on "Global Warming" which started as a theory, was at least partly disproven, and now is a religion, recognized and Protected as such in the UK. http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/globwa rm.htm Weirdly enough, Climate Science has been a hobby of mine for a long time. I'm not a pro, ( nor are most of the people telling you the world is coming to an end ) but unlike Al Gore, I did take Meteorology, Micrometeorology, and Aviation weather some years back. Flew gliders for 30+ years, and having a clue on How weather works is kinda important for that. Not having an engine, and all that. I'm actually interested in your take on Obama's Foreign policy, seriously. I don't get it. My buddies that are former Marines have given me valuable insight into places I've never been, like Japan, and Korea. Or on subjects that I know little about. ( there's a LOT of those. ) | ||
| Garryb |
I don't trust Iran and wish Obama would just leave the sanctions in place. But otherwise in general he has restored us to the leadership role in the world both economically and politically and I think that's cool. I give up arguing for now, I seem to be from a different dimension. bye | ||
| Reindog |
garryb, this one is for you. Don't just boogie but articulate, dude.  | ||
| Blake |
Willful ignorance leading to self delusion. The Chinese state media publishes nuclear attack plans, boasts of planning a "Death Star" moon base, lays claim under threat of military threat to airspace near Japan and Taiwan and South Korea, and continues to attack our nation's economy through blatantly illegal trade and currency manipulation. Obama allows our ambassador and his security team to be murdered in Libya, he goes to sleep then jets off for a game of golf, then we are blatantly lied to in an attempt to cover up his gross negligence, incompetence, and dereliction of duty. Obama tried to outlaw our guns. Obama repeatedly blatantly lied to the entire nation about the effects of the marxist redistributive vehicle known as "Obamacare." Funneling firearms to Mexican drug gangs? Hey, what a way to move America forward. As much as Democrats lie about the cause of the global recession, the truth remains. Despite being warned repeatedly by the Bush administration, the Fed, and Republicans in congress of the extreme dangers of subsidizing mortgages without requiring the govt backed FM&FM to maintain adequate capital of their own, Democrats in congress only bristled at the suggestion that the govt backed mortage market ought to be held to better account. Their response was along the lines of "Bush hates black people." The result was catastrophe. The same result for any such federal govt meddling in the economy. Egypt fell to islamists. The effort supported by Obama. Libia has fallen to Islamists. The effort orchestrated by Obama. Syria is hanging in the balance. Obama aiming to help it fall to the Islamists. When the Iranian people rose up, Obama backed away, never once offering even the tiniest support for those in that nation who wish to throw off the smothering cloak of islamist tyranny and brutal oppression. The man hates America, was raised by !#$%ing communists, introduced into politics by marxist terrorists, gained office unethically, accepted bribes, and attended a racist whitey-hating "church", hired communists and admirers of Mao, fosters racial division and hatred. I despise the man. If the senate were controlled by men of honor, he would be out of a job, impeached and found guilty. He's a liar, a deceiver and no friend to freedom. | ||
| Blake |
"But otherwise in general he has restored us to the leadership role in the world both economically and politically and I think that's cool. " $17,000,000,000,000 in debt and climbing. Lowest employment since Jimmy Carter. Cost of living skyrocketing. Wages shrinking. Part time jobs displacing full time employment. Welfare and disability skyrocketing, shattering previous records. The IRS targeting Obama political opponents. The DOJ targeting Obama critics in the press. but... "But otherwise in general he has restored us to the leadership role in the world both economically and politically and I think that's cool." Unbelievable. | ||
| Aesquire |
Wow. "But otherwise in general he has restored us to the leadership role in the world both economically and politically and I think that's cool." I just "googled" the above quote and got as the first 2, en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Barack_Obamaý www.whitehouse.gov/blogý Dude. Direct feed. I want you to notice that Barack Obama is not included, at all in the above quote. It's really the direct propaganda feed to us all, it's freaking brilliant. And scary. For fun, click "images" and Holy Frijoles! When I click "maps" I get the local College. I think Gerry may be a bot and not exist in real life. | ||
| Doz |
Gotta give Gerry props for admitting he's from a "different dimension". I just hope its a small and shrinking dimension. | ||
| Court |
>>>>But otherwise in general he has restored us to the leadership role in the world both economically and politically You have to be smoking dope . . . . no one can be that disconnected with reality Make no mistake. . . .Barack Obama has made us the laughing stock of the international community. | ||
| Reindog |
garryb: There are other people who believe what you believe. I am fundamentally at a loss of words trying to understand how you would come to this incomprehensible conclusion. Our allies scoff at us. Our enemies laugh at us and move against us. He has turned his back on Israel who is surrounded by a sea of enemies. His weakness and apologies for America have emboldened the destruction of Egypt. He has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq. Benghazi and the larger problem of Libya is a travesty. And we haven't even gotten started on red lines. Help me understand. WTF are you talking about? | ||
| Reindog |
Completely off topic but an example of how a leader can transcend. He was not a perfect man, no man is, but he was a Colossus.  | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm The civilian labor force rose by 455,000 in November, after declining by 720,000 in October. Since the Sept numbers ( before October "corrections" ) were 145,000 odd folks got new jobs vs. 345,000 odd folk lost them, and they claimed a reduction in Unemployment, I bet that we may actually be close to the break even point with the Nov. numbers. Which is great. Best in a year. No kidding. Yeah! Christmas! http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm However the 7.0% number is science fiction. It will be corrected next month with no fanfare, and little reporting outside the financial news. ( it's ALWAYS corrected next month, and I can't blame any president for that ) Garry, I don't trust Iran and wish Obama would just leave the sanctions in place. Totally agree. Please don't run away just because we think you may be an AI or argue with you. I'm not anti Artificial Intelligence. ( although I do insult and hang up when Robo-called......it's a hobby.  ) Time for some Bush Bashing on my part. I very much objected to Bush's policy and actions after the Liberation of Iraq. The Liberation of Afghanistan was a serious historical wonder. Horseback riding irregular ( Spec Forces ) troops devastated a massively larger and entrenched force with such speed and decisiveness..... has never been seen. The closest example is the IX Legion destroyed by Parthian riders in Armenia. B-52's used as close air support? Damn. Brilliant. The follow up with the current corrupt "president" in Afghanistan was a major screw up. However, casualties were very light, and the situation stable, if crappy, until Barack Obama declared it the "right war" and during his term the number of Americans killed there in 4 years was more than under Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan, in total. Iraq, now that's a different story. While the initial military actions were brilliant, and will be studied for generations to come, the follow up "nation building" "culturally sensitive" approach was wrong, stupid, and wasteful. Fallujah for example had to be taken TWICE. That's bad policy. My real complaint with Bush's actions is that The instant we had proof that Iran ( and Syria ) were pumping weapons and Jihadi across the border to kill our people, we should have taken them out, mercilessly, quickly, and finally. No occupation, let the UN handle that, and in Syria at least, we could have let Russia put in their own puppets and used that as a bribe to stabilize, and divide the region between us. For very little cost, we could have freed millions more people, and 2 more nations would no longer be threats to the planet. Alas, Useful idiots and the Democrat Party ( if that's not redundant ) gave aid and comfort to the enemy, ( Treason ) and even screamed we were losing during the Iraqi Liberation when we stopped for gas. Some of those politicians seriously deserve a firing squad for Treason and Sedition. ( and I'm normally fine with sedition. Or was that seduction?  ) | ||
| Aesquire |
Note Re: Marines & Fallujah. The Marine Corp, ( Pronounced "Core" not Corpse like Barry does ) has long had a tradition of superior marksmanship, dating to the days when US Marines rode the "fighting tops" tiny platforms on the masts of sailing ships. Often simply laying on the rigging, many feet in the air, Marines would shoot down at the enemy ships, targeting officers and Gunners mates, often being decisive in battles between ships armed with scores of cannon. The rope trim sewn to the tops of officer's caps was said to be there to make them easier for the Marines to target. ( military jokes can be a bit..... rough ) During the War On Terror, the Marine Corp finally decided to allow Optical sights, and the already superlative marksmanship took on a whole new range. After the 2nd battle of Fallujah, UN inspectors accused the Marines of executing prisoners. Many bodies of Jihadi, and Saddam's tribal supporters, were found in the streets with a single bullet hole in the head. When this accusation was brought to the attention of the Marine General, he demanded to see the bodies, and pointed out that all of them had no powder burns, and pointed out the positions the marines had fired from, often hundreds of yards away. Where the spent 5.56 cases still lay. The UN forces were shocked by the accuracy and lethality of the U.S. Marine. | ||
| Court |
>>>The UN forces were shocked by the accuracy and lethality of the U.S. Marine. As an Expert Marksman (300 out of 300 at Edson Range in San Onefre, CA) I'd be willing to bet that is an accurate statement. | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . . they eye opener for me, in terms how how other countries now see the United States, was when the Big O sent the carrier to Lybia and within 2 days the Chinese and Russians had, in effect, surrounded it. It wasn't long ago that no one would have challenged a United States carrier with an Air Wing on board. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Breath Relax Aim Squeeze Shoot Follow through Death from long distance..... the next best thing to being there | ||
| Cityxslicker |
When 'trending' a recovery it is best to look at the longer term - say 18 months, and not the month to month variance (as any Econ 101 student should know) Looking at the actual numbers of 'gain' of job numbers ie those NEWLY 'jobbed' for the month - you will notice that the line is damn near statistically FLAT. Meaning - it is not that 'unemployment' decreased (because that number also takes into account of those 'surveyed' that are no longer looking for work - ergo - you quit looking for work & viola ! you are no longer 'unemployed') so for all the miraculous chest thumping about the decrease in unemployment.... the delta change of newly jobbed from September to November was 83,ooo. In the words of Jack Palance - Son, I crap bigger than that. sourced from Bureau of Labor Statistics; as presented by BINYAMIN APPELBAUM from the NYTIMES: "It’s easier to see the trends if you skip over the government’s wacky data for the month of October, and compare November with September. The number of people that the government counted as unemployed fell by 348,000, driving the unemployment rate from 7.2 percent to 7.0 percent. But the number of people with jobs only increased by 83,000. In other words, for every person who found a job between September and November, three other people stopped looking." | ||
| Sifo |
I very much objected to Bush's policy and actions after the Liberation of Iraq. I was more on the fence. I knew I didn't have all the details and was willing to go with those who did. Bush made his best case to Congress and won them over in a huge way, including a certain senator who was married to the man who months prior had all the information available that Bush did. I can't believe that she wouldn't have tapped him for a yes or no nod on if it was the right thing to do. She was later part of the "Bush lied, people died" crowd. Why didn't she find out Bush was lying from her hubby? He would almost certainly known. Bush also made his case to the UN and won them over with the exception of the French who had veto power making that a no go. The UN was in agreement right up to the point of pulling the trigger though. No doubt that execution of various things can be second guessed. The nation building thing has bitten us numerous times. Nothing unusual about that under Bush. No occupation, let the UN handle that Well... That's pretty much how we wound up in Iraq. I still think it's a bit early to predict how history will eventually view the Iraq conflict. It's a mixed bag, but it was all done correctly. We had years prior to that of Saddam trying to shoot down our planes enforcing the UN no-fly zone. It would have been simple at any time to declare him in violation of the peace agreements of the first conflict and crush Iraq. It wasn't done that way though. As easy as it it to complain about nation building, what we now see in Libya is a result of no nation building. It seems perfectly predictable in that case. Some other cases may possibly work out better. | ||
| Sifo |
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| Aesquire |
Sifo, I'm not talking about the Liberation of Iraq. While I still haven't seen a count of total WMD's found and destroyed, I agreed with Freeing Iraq. I'm talking about the nation building policies afterward. The "War ON Iraq" was over in what? 2 weeks? Freaking Brilliant. The War FOR Iraq, to protect them from AQ, Saddam's tribe, Iran, Syria, etc. is what I think Bush flubbed. While I object to the "you broke it, you bought it" crap, I admit it has some historical validity. It is traditional to conquer, loot, and either stay & exploit, or leave to rot, the conquered land. The most successful Empire, Rome, would conquer and absorb. ONLY the U.S. ( and in a few cases England ) has picked up the conquered and put them back on their feet, to be allies and friends. The pattern for doing that properly was established in Japan & Germany after WW2. That's not what we did in Iraq or Afghanistan. We didn't have the input or position after WW1 and look what happened. WW2. So I blame Bush & his minions for screwing up the peace. Just as I blame Obama & his minions for screwing the people of Libya, Egypt, Syria, The USA. It's not "nation building" or being responsible I object to, it's being stupid and doing it wrong. I think we did it wrong. In the "if I were in charge" dept. I'd have imposed a temporary Constitution ( Iraq & Afghanistan ) with Religious freedom Paramount. I'd have armed the citizens in the contested areas, and I'd have turned the leaders of Iran and Syria into memories. Russia could keep Syria, and Iran is civilized enough to become a republic with only a little help. Different place than Iraq. ps. If I had been GW Bush, every single poison gas shell found would be in the Capitol Rotunda on display with a rotating honor guard. If they ran our of room, I'd stack them in the halls of Congress's offices. I'm not going to discuss if I'd empty them or not.  | ||
| Sifo |
It's really bad when you realize that 41% of the already dismal jobs numbers were government jobs! 41% of Net New Jobs in November Were in Government | ||
| Macbuell |
It really is amazing how much this guy lies. Listen to this BS from Carney: The White House was asked about their relationship in 2011 at which time the administration denied the President and Onyango Okech Obama had ever met. Carney retracted that information Thursday saying that the President himself had never been consulted about their relationship. "Back when this arose, folks looked at the record, including the President's book, and there was no evidence that they had met. And that was what was conveyed. Nobody spoke to the President," White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters. "When Omar Obama said the other day and there were reports that he had said the other day that President Obama, back when he was a law school student, had stayed with him in Cambridge, I thought it was the right thing to do to go ask him." Carney continued: "Nobody had asked him in the past, and the President said that he in fact had met Omar Obama when he moved to Cambridge for law school and that he stayed with him for a brief period of time until his, the President's, apartment was ready." http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/05/ob ama-lived-with-kenyan-uncle-prior-to-law-school-wh ite-house-says/?hpt=hp_t2 Are you serious? Someone asks about a relative and the people around Obama don't ask him but consult his book? Who in their right mind would believe that? | ||
| Macbuell |
{It's really bad when you realize that 41% of the already dismal jobs numbers were government jobs! And a large percentage of the rest are temporary retail jobs associated with the holiday season. Most of those people will be unemployed again in January. | ||
| Garryb |
Please don't tell everybody who's investing in American corporations, cause they all think the USA is on a major uptrend. Also the Chinese gov recently gave permission for their citizens to invest in our markets. I hope you all liquidated any retirement funds when Obama took office or at least liquidated when he got re-elected. I also hope you bought your ARs and ammunition when Obama was taking our guns away. (actually, I hope you didn't cause I'm a nice guy and we all have/had Buells) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Fair question Garry... 1) I couldn't liquidate my retirement portfolio, because with the Fed, at Obama's direction, printing money hand over fist (quantitive easing), each $1 becomes worth less. Simple inflation. Why do you think a crappy econobox is now a $15k car, and a japanese inline 4 600 is now $10,000? To protect it's value, I have to have that my cash invested in an actual asset like property, gold, or a corporation. That insulates my investment from being eroded by inflation. Corporations are the easiest and safest. You keep claiming that stocks are way up, but you are ignoring that the value of a $ is way down. It's like claiming you made your Buell faster by changing the speedometer to one that reads wrong. 2) Chinese have been investing in our markets long before Obama came into office. I have a friend that lives in Beijing and know this first hand. 3) About the time the polls showed Obama was likely to win, ammunition and weapons started *flying* off the shelves. People were trying to stock up, but couldn't. People *did* stock up, and those that started earlier were in much better shape than those that waited and *couldn't* buy anything. | ||
| Garryb |
All true, but people needed jobs, and the US corps were in trouble after the Bush debacle so they kept rates down and opened up the quantitative easing. I heard complaints here that we shouldn't deficit spend, but also the economy still hasn't recovered enough. You can't have it both ways, the rich and the US corporations are vastly richer. The Koch bros wealth has tripled under Obama, and there are way more billionaires than ever. Google, Apple, Boeing, GM, F etc are rocketing. But we now know that trickle down doesn't work. So we can tax the rich who are now way richer and/or provide some relief to those who haven't participated. But, that's socialism, which everyone here hates, so I guess in capitalism, its tough luck if you didn't get rich in here. I do hope they stop the easing soon so the dollar recovers its buying power. Fortunately for all of us, the USA has recovered faster than most of the rest of the world and is again the economic leader. | ||
| Garryb |
GM: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gm-tops-40-for-fi rst-time-since-bailout-2013-12-06?dist=afterbell Chinese investors; http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2013-08/30/content_16932279.htm (Message edited by garryb on December 06, 2013) |
