| Author | Message | ||
     Kcfirebolt |
http://gas2.org/2013/08/16/erik-buell-racing-paten ts-hybrid-motorcycle/ | ||
| Oldog |
WOW, even discounting the HP# an electric sport bike with long legs and an alternate drive, the electric motor would provide awesome drive out of a corner in concert with an IC engine..... not out of the box OUT OF THE PARK... | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Interesting... | ||
| F22raptor |
If he had corn in his crap, Erik would find a way to get the chunk-pattern patented. This is not a new idea, I suspect the neat part is the A/C signal to the motors. If you could loose the heat losses in the normal speed-control circuitry, you might get somewhere. I suspect a digital input to the output wave and frequency without the need to pulse the output of the controller. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I concur, & with the combination of the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator & the dilithium crystals, it should really go. | ||
| Jaimec |
He'd have better luck with a Flux Capacitor. Then, when that baby hits 88 mph, you're gonna see some serious sh*t!! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Patents are are probably more about protecting yourself from other patents as they are about trying to be predatory with them. AC motors aren't new, nor are DC to AC converters. DC to AC conversion is actually fairly efficient, so no "major breakthroughs" are going to come from there, just some incremental tweaks. Digital inputs to a sine wave are just noise that will be filtered by a large inductive load, they aren't going to do anything radical. Power density by weight is the holy grail we are pursuing. Actually, we are looking for the second grail... we have the first holy grail already. Gasoline is a fantastic battery... it is created from solar power, holds a charge for millions of years, has amazing power per pound, and as it is converted to mechanical energy it's weight goes to zero (so your half discharged battery is half as heavy as your full battery). It is easy to transport and package. It's main problem is that it takes too long to recharge... plant a jungle, wait about a million years, and drill for oil. A liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen approach could solve the "recharge" problem (electricty + water = hydrogen and oxygen, hydrogen combined with oxygen produces a ton of available energy and water). But compressing and packaging liquid O2 and H is pretty hard. The 3D batteries (really a spongy 3 dimensional structure that creates a large battery plate surface area without lots of mechanical interleaving of plates) is being touted as revolutionary, but it is just one of many "revolutionary" promises in battery technology that have been way over sold then way under deliver. Right now, a hybrid is a great approach. Leverage existing battery technologies to make the best use of their strengths, and just avoid their limitations. | ||
| F22raptor |
We will see if his patent holds up.....It is going to get down to something silly like one line of data in a software program or the windings or his A/C motor compared to mine..Erik has sub-let his mind to others for so long it it amazing he can find his way home after work. Is someone burning the Currie again.. | ||
| Kenm123t |
REEP Permanent magnet motors Daikin Mitsuibishi etc use them in Hvac compressors in the millions the drives have heat sinks but the indoor units do not require fans In a bike they might due to the rapid speed changes. But you have regenerative braking etc Great Ideas but in a bike the packaging will kill the whole project energy density per lb is the problem direct injection with turbo charging ala Ford eco boost is the best way to go. Hybrids are just what the name said half way measures If all the so called green tech worked as dreamed Apple wouldn't be the most valuable company in the world. If its viable the market will demand it if you have to pay people to buy and use its a dead end | ||
| F22raptor |
Kenm123t, If you read my , or understood my first reply, The elimination of the cause of the heat is what I have and Erik has probably done. D/C motors in a bike are 1930's technology at best..Throttling a A/C motor without heat generation is the "Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator & the dilithium crystals" or " better luck with a Flux Capacitor. Then, when that baby hits 88 mph' as the kids in the back of the classroom said. You know the ones in high-school that had a smart answer for everything..With limited resources, I have cut heat-generation and there-for , efficiency by 60%. He lost at the line in the patent that stated "The output shaft 52 of the motor assembly 41 also has a sprocket 53 fixedly engaged to the motor assembly output shaft 52. A drive chain or belt 54 is disposed between the wheel axle sprocket 51 and the motor assembly output shaft sprocket 53, such that the chain or belt 54 operatively engages the two sprockets 51 and 53. The chain or belt 54 transmits the power produced from the motor assembly 41, to the rear wheel 46. In some embodiments, a chain tensioner 55 (or belt tensioner) may be disposed on the motorcycle 40 to impart a tension" Really Erik? | ||
| Reepicheep |
What I like about the EBR patent is that they didn't come at it like everyone else did and say "lets build hybrid that sucks a little less than some other hybrids". They looked at it and said "if we consider new possibilities from a dual gas and electric power system, how can we make the &^%$^^% most awesomest motorcycle ever?". The patent is for the system described, not each component. Patenting it proactively is smart, first and foremost it protects you from patent trolls. If you don't patent it, somebody else will. They will then send you a letter, including a "settlement offer" that is about half of what they know your legal department would spend to overturn their BS patent. There are sadly people making millions doing this right now. Lots of little legal actions, all below the cost of litigation, so that nobody goes to the trouble of overturning the BS patent. So you patent it yourself first... Diesel electric trains have been around for a hundred years. Hybrid high performance gas and electric motorcycles haven't. Can't wait to see one!  | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Diesel electric trains have been around for a hundred years. Really? I can remember seeing steam locos as a boy but the 60s DELTIC's were stunning. | ||
| Reepicheep |
OK, you made me go check... From: http://exotic.railfan.net/dieselfaq.htm
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| Mr_grumpy |
What an interesting article, thanks mate. | ||
| Aesquire |
I've been waiting for over 30 years for a locomotive style hybrid. Not like the Prius, which is parallel, with gas & electric driving the motive wheels either/or/both, but a diesel engine hooked to a generator, some batteries for load leveling, and electric motor driving car. Mother Earth News had a hybrid Van in that style about 1977. Kubota utility tractor diesel engine.... the control electronics are much better now. You need aprox 60 HP to drive a Van 60mph. A motorcycle? 25? depending on aerodynamics. When the early "dustbin" fairings were banned from competition last century, Motorcycle aerodynamics stalled. The best commercially available fairings, funny enough, seem to be for the S3. I could be wrong on that, the BMW 100RS was pretty darn good, and there might be a modern one that equals it, but I'm not sure. Craig Vetter's work seems to be the most practical. His "sorta kit" for the Honda Helix scooter takes a lot of hand work, it's just a shell from his older MPG competition machine. If I can get a Buell hybrid sport tourer...... and can afford it, I'd buy. | ||
| Chauly |
The BMW K-1 was very efficient, hitting 150 mph with about 95 hp,IIRC. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
A 200 hp electric motor is fairly large, isn't it??? | ||
| Panhead_dan |
the 200 hp motors I've seen are big and heavy | ||
| Pikeben08 |
The Fisker Karma had 150 KW motors (roughly 200 hp), I seem to remember that they weighed around 200 lbs. each. | ||
| Sifo |
I found this 150 kw (peak output, not continuous) that weighs 33.5 kg. http://www.remyinc.com/docs/HVH250R4.pdf That's roughly 74 pounds. I would imagine that you could creatively shave a few pounds off with use of more expensive materials. You also need to be able to supply 300 amps at 650 volts. Holding a patent is very different from ever manufacturing anything. | ||
| Pikeben08 |
650 volts would be a lot, although not impossible. Most H/EVs today are in the 350 volt range. | ||
| Sifo |
No it's not impossible. Is it practical? I just don't see the point of building a bike that will be far more expensive and heavier than anything else that it competes against. To claim good mileage? Very few bikes today concern themselves much with mileage, and there's a reason for that. You just don't tend to save money by buying a second vehicle, especially a large cc motorcycle. None of this really matters though. This entire conversation is about a product that is most likely not under development. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I'm not sure I'd really want 600 volt anything that close to my family jewels. I'd be wanting to see some serious insulation too, A battery short wouldn't be pretty. | ||
| Pikeben08 |
"None of this really matters though. This entire conversation is about a product that is most likely not under development." Agreed. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
it has to be a car | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Think about it, Mr. Buell thinks outside the box. He does not think small. He thinks forward - to the future. I think he is planning to go where no motorcycle manufacturer has gone before! (or somethin like that) | ||
| Reepicheep |
It sure would be ambitious to build a high power hybrid motorcycle. | ||
| Hootowl |
"it has to be a car" The patent application specifically says it is a two wheeled vehicle. | ||
| Milt |
Just thinking outside of the box: Two wheeled cars may be the future. | ||
| Hootowl |
The patent application also specifically says "motorcycle". There is a representative drawing that looks a whole lot like a motorcycle, and nothing like a two wheeled car. Did anyone read the article? Though, for the life of me, I can't imagine how you would put down 400HP on the street. Perhaps they're headed to the salt? |
