| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Aside from spending a fortune on his legal defense, and having his life on hold for years now, what do you thing his life expectancy will be on the street if he is acquitted? His face is well known, and his personal information, including things like his SS number have been made public. | ||
| Thumper74 |
Sifo, I've talked about this with everyone I know. While I think he should walk, I want justice, whatever that may be. If he does walk, I can't imagine him lasting long. He'd have to move to someplace like North Dakota, Montana, etc. (small population, white, Conservative, etc.) | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
I am surprised that few people are talking about the extra ordinary bias that the Judge in the case, Judge Debra Steinburg Nelson has shown. First she wouldn't let Zimmerman's parents in court because they might be witnesses, but she allowed Martin's parents to attend, even though she knew they would be witnesses. Then she got in to an very unusual pissing match with Zimmerman's lawyers on the subject of whether or not Zimmerman was coerced into not taking the stand by his lawyers. Now, realizing that the state has absolutely no chance of winning a murder 2 verdict, because all the state's witnesses seemed to favor Zimmerman, she is trying to allow lesser charges, including "Child abuse" if you can believe that, on the frail hope that the jurors will not understand the implications of lessers. If I were Z's lawyers, I would ask for a mistrial right now, because I don't think the state would try him again after what they have shown so far. | ||
| Sifo |
Unfortunately, justice was done when the investigation found it to be simple self defense and declined to press charges. This is a political lynching. I found myself in a somewhat similar, though not quite as severe of a situation once. I shudder to think that under different circumstances this could have been done to me. I am still out the cost of legal counsel though. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Any legal experts here that can validate the "unusualness" of ruling that the jury can consider lesser offenses after the defense rests? To a casual observer, it sounds insane. The trial was relative to the stated charges. If there was more than one possible charge, that should have been declared at the start, not at the end, and argued though the duration. But maybe this is how it normally works... Any experts here? | ||
| Sifo |
It's hard to imagine how this could be normal. Have a trial, then charge you with a crime. Kangaroo court for sure. | ||
| Thumper74 |
We were just talking about this... How can changing the charges be legitimate? Thus far, the defense was preparing against second degree murder, not child abuse or manslaughter. They could call for a mistrial, but then they would be required to start the process again under the new charges for it to be fair... not to mention the judge's obvious bias. Does anyone know if the jurors were instructed on the self defense laws of the state so that they are aware that what Zimmerman did was legal, assuming that he was in fear for his life, and did not act as the aggressor? I ask this because there are many misconceptions about the CCW laws around... I've been told that you're only allowed to draw if you shoot. The person was told that they HAVE to shoot or it's brandishing even if the gun were to deter the act... All guns that you carry must be registered. Ohio's law says (they were wanting to change it...) that if you are armed and have an interaction with a police officer, they must be promptly notified. What's the legal definition of 'prompt'? | ||
| Fb1 |
Any legal experts here that can validate the "unusualness" of ruling that the jury can consider lesser offenses after the defense rests? Reep, I've been following the trial from the beginning at Legal Insurrection. Many lawyers are following (and commenting on) the case there, including blog owner Professor William A. Jacobson of Cornell Law School. http://legalinsurrection.com/ | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cool, thanks Ferris. Here is the relevant part from there:
So the manslaughter charge was included from the start, but the 3rd degree charge would have been mickey mouse. Thanks! | ||
| Fb1 |
You're welcome. It's been interesting to follow this trial from a "legal" perspective, and I've learned much. | ||
| Fb1 |
State’s Closing Argument: Expert Analysis Posted by Andrew Branca Thursday, July 11, 2013 at 8:10 pm http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/states-closin g-argument-expert-analysis/ | ||
| Aesquire |
No, you don't have to shoot. Unless you are a traditional Turk with a sword, in which case you must draw blood, your own, if the draw was for no good reason. Also seen on Babylon 5 with Narn Samaurai types.... For mortal, sane people, No. In New York, you can get a "brandishing" charge if someone sees a gun as your coat rides up, but that is not the intent of the law, and outside the propaganda ridden Flaming jerks, it's not illegal. Brandishing is only a crime if the cops and lawyers want it to be. So if you draw on a lawyer, shoot. I've not been following the trial, but I should pick up a few cases of water for the riots. The idea that the Justice Dept. is sponsoring protests tells me Holder & his Boss should be impeached. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I was a juror on a attempted murder trial and the judge informed us just before we adjourned for deliberations that we could convict the accused of a lesser charge. | ||
| Fb1 |
The idea that the Justice Dept. is sponsoring protests tells me Holder & his Boss should be impeached. Related reading: How and Why The Media Got It So Wrong – The Zimmerman Case – Packaged and Sold By Ryan Julison, Benjamin Crump, Natalie Jackson http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/06/30/how -and-why-the-media-got-it-so-wrong-the-zimmerman-c ase-packaged-and-sold-by-ryan-julison-benjamin-cru mp-natalie-jackson/ Trayvongate: Newest Obama Scandal Is 17 Months Old http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/10 /Trayvongate | ||
| Reindog |
Thanks, FB1. Nice to see you out of the bunker. Unlike that Halfro-American Obama, if I had a son, he sure as shooting would not have looked like Trayvon. That hoodie would have been stuffed up his butt while I drove him to the Marine Corps Recruiting Depot. Obama should have kept his stupid mouth shut and not have injected race and his Bully Pulpit into this local matter. Sieg Heil. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Did the judge interrogate Zimmerman in front of the jury about not testifying? I admit I haven't dug very deep to find out, but, if so, that would seem to be pretty prejudicial. | ||
| Oldog |
It will be interesting to see if the jury hands down a manslaughter verdict. I am past the point of caring on the admins involvement. The repubs are waiting until after the mid terms, IF they have solid majorities in both houses then the real fire works will start. That will be a trial, Trying zimmerman almost seems like appeasement. l8r | ||
| Fb1 |
For the record: I despise 0bama NOT because of his skin color. Shouldn't need to be said, but I put in on the record just in case. Furthermore, I despise many of his henchmen and -women who are Caucasian. Biden, Reid and Pelosi come immediately to mind. Oh, and our former SoS (and, shudder, perhaps our next president, if Dear Leader ever retires). I have, at length, sung the praises of conservative African Americans on this forum, including Allen West and Artur Davis. I despise whom I despise, and admire whom I admire, NOT based on their skin color. For the record. Now then, more reading: Reversible Error in Zimmerman Before We Even Get a Verdict? Andrew C. McCarthy, July 11, 2013 http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2013/07/11/rever sible-error-in-zimmerman-before-we-even-get-a-verd ict/ Zimmerman: Anticipating Mark O'Mara's Closing By Jeralyn, July 11, 2013 http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/11/224258/656 /crimenews/Zimmerman-Anticipating-Mark-O-Mara-s-Cl osing | ||
| Fb1 |
Oldog: It will be interesting to see if the jury hands down a manslaughter verdict.
This was posted just a few moments ago by Prof. Jacobson at Legal Insurrection. Here's the link, and additional valuable information: Zimmerman Final Jury Instructions Posted by William A. Jacobson Friday, July 12, 2013 at 7:56 am http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/zimmerman-fin al-jury-instructions/ | ||
| Blake |
>>> Did the judge interrogate Zimmerman in front of the jury about not testifying? No. The judge also denied the prosecution's last-minute request to include a 3rd degree murder charge, so the notion that "she is trying to allow lesser charges, including 'Child abuse' " is exactly opposite of the truth. "Nelson ruled against the prosecution's request that jurors be able to consider a third-degree felony murder charge based on child abuse." Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/12/defense-to-ma ke-its-final-case-in-zimmerman-trial/#ixzz2Ypn3HQt r Be careful to whom who you listen. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
My take...Being Devils Advocate here but..Maybe Florida should change the CCW laws in that state. I mean, if guns weren't allowed,... Zimmerman may not have had one and then would not have had the courage or "backup" to pursue Trayvon as far as he did in the first place. (scarcasim) An over confident, immature kid fighting an adult, once Trayvon realized the the gun was there ... he tried to maintain his control of Zimmerman, that was his mistake. For the kid... it was probably like a dude with beer muscles. Kid was over confident (absolutely not realizing ANY possible outcomes except the here and now which... he was winning..., because he was on top. And he wanted to maintain that and had the kid-confidence/beer muscles to believe he could. He didn't realize the implications of even coming close to going for that gun... "IF" he even realized the gun was there. (would have been millisecond decision to go for it or not) Same for Zimmerman...millisecond decision. Trayvon had no inclination about the consequences of his actions at that moment. I don't think Zimmerman wanted to shoot Trayvon. I don't think Trayvon wanted to get shot but it seems to thateverything lies in the 2-5 milliseconds that the gun was felt or noticed by Trayvon, or remembered by George. I wonder how this courtroom drama would have played out in New Jersey? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Mike- I pretty much agree with your speculation. It's sad that a dumb young man is dead and that a grown man's life has been ruined as a result. IIRC Trayvon's own mom said early in this deal that she didn't think Zimmerman had intended to kill her son, which is completely at odds with the prosecution's entire case. | ||
| Oldog |
The trial has been a farce. Both men zim and martin were responsible for the altercation / event. martin had a history of violence which IS relevant, IMO, while zim did not know this it speaks to martins actions.  HAD MARTIN NOT ASSAULTED ZIM HE WOULD STILL BE HERE....... zim defends himself, because he stupidly gets out of the truck to follow martin... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ the various talking heads arguing the finer points of the law, seem to be moot, as there are blatent events of "rule bending" going on, and no one is doing any thing about it. At the WORST a possible case for manslaughter could be made. It was not, the officials of the state tried to prosecute zim for murder, now they want to go after a reduced charge, while this appears to be "legal" why was the more serious charge even leveled knowing it would likely not be upheld? I keep hearing about "compromise verdict" really? was zim guilty of trying to do any thing but protect himself and his neighborhood ? Child abuse? WTF is wrong with these people MARTIN WAS ON TOP OF ZIMMERMAN ! just who was abusing who? it seems that the states mission is to convict zim at all costs The judge and procecutors have violated their oaths of office, I hope that each and every one who knowingly persecuted zim find themselves pushing a broom or shovel for a living, the dirt bags are a stain on what it means to be a law enforcement or legal professional. Its kinda obvious even to a simple dolt like me that the trial has been a circus, show trial, farce, Why you can reach your own conclusions. | ||
| Reindog |
I, too, despise Obama, not because of his skin color, but because of who he is and what he stands for. This most divisive President and AG Holder constantly makes race an issue. It was un-presidential and improper for Obama to weigh in on the Trayvon Martin case and it was illegal for Holder to unleash the CRS to help organize the racist demonstrations that led to the political lynching of George Zimmerman. Conservatives who will help rebuild America. Allen West Ted Cruz Susannah Martinez Dr. Benjamin Carson. Great Americans all! | ||
| Oldog |
Add Trey Gowdy of SC to that list. | ||
| Thumper74 |
The jurors are in deliberation now. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"HAD MARTIN NOT ASSAULTED ZIM HE WOULD STILL BE HERE....... " so he assaulted Zimmerman to begin the altercation? Or is this what you THINK happened "Child abuse? WTF is wrong with these people MARTIN WAS ON TOP OF ZIMMERMAN ! just who was abusing who? " so as long as youre on bottom, youre not doing anything wrong - i'll remember that next time i want to rape someone... "Its kinda obvious even to a simple dolt like me that the trial has been a circus, show trial, farce, " agreed fully | ||
| Cecil1 |
so he assaulted Zimmerman to begin the altercation? Or is this what you THINK happened Nope witness and forensic evidence has proven it. so as long as youre on bottom, youre not doing anything wrong - i'll remember that next time i want to rape someone... That's a leap don't ya think? If you have a person damn near twice your size that is raining blows down on ya feel free to try it | ||
| Cecil1 |
Oh and i agree... This is a circus Unfortunately a guy that seemed to want to help his neighbors is getting set up. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
ive not followed the trial a whole lot, was unaware that they determined, without a doubt, that Martin instigated the situation as far as the 'near twice your size' - eh, youre not winning me over on that one. I was having lunch yesterday and in between paragraphs in 20000 Leagues Under the Sea I would glance at the TV and they (prosecution) had size differences - Martin was taller by, I think, 4 inches (maybe it was 3, maybe 5, not 100%), but Zimmerman was heavier by about 40lbs. So Martin is/was taller, but he weighed a good bit less. yes, rape was a huge leap, but i honestly dont think just being on bottom means you arent doing anything wrong. If im wrestling with my girlfriend playfully, shes on top of me, and I decide to strike her in the face - it'll still be assault on my part. |
