| Author | Message | ||
     Wesleyb82 |
From http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/21/ 698968.html?1365224087: I just had the freakiest thing happen. I just googled motorcyle and choose news to read what crashes are happening around the country. I've probably done this 3 times in a year and do it bc deep down Im terrified of a crash. The fourth result says something about a kia cutting off a bike, I click on it and I see the name of the badweber above (Cheez2158) who I just bought some things from and who I have been speaking with other the phone. His email was charlesrosborne72@xxx which means hes 41, his area code was 563 which is Iowa, and the bike in the photo looks like his 1125. WTF. I'm ••••••• freaking out. The only way I even made the connection was bc I recognized his face. The only way I knew his face was bc I have this stupid app on my phone that tried to find my contacts on facebook and i saw his profile. The only reason I'm even up this late is bc I forgot to set something at work. And this is the third time in a year I even google this and hes the fourth result down?? And I can count the number of ppl I know that ride on two hands. And hes one of millions that I happen to stumble upon???? Is this a sign?? Should I sell my bike?? http://qctimes.com/news/local/police-id-bettendorf -fatal-motorcycle-crash-victim/article_ff67ce0c-2e d3-5d85-83ee-b742378f0750.html | ||
| Skntpig |
Not sure what to say here but so sorry to hear this. RIP Mr. Osborne. Pegs down. Not your fault and likely not his from the story. I don't know all the facts. I have had friends fall and I try to learn from each of the events IF possible. It is such a good community here and this type of news is tough to take even though I haven't had any contact with this fallen brother. | ||
| 86129squids |
"Is this a sign?? Should I sell my bike??" Reserve time to take it all in. Grok it... before you sell, or decide to stop riding. | ||
| Sleez |
i also knew him, i sold him some tuber parts at the end of last year, spoke with him on the phone a few times, great guy. i am at a loss....completely. sorry i did not get to ride with him, pegs down for sure! | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
If you don't feel comfortable riding your bike because of this sad event, give it a rest for a while, & if you're still not comfortable riding after that, then hang up your riding gear as you'll only be a danger to yourself & others riding. All that said, try to take something positive away from all this, the poor guy died doing something he loved to do. You can honour his memory every time you ride by giving him a grin & a wink wherever he is. The French have a saying about these sort of events that roughly translates as "It puts some lead in your head" meaning that it slows you down & makes you more considerate of consequenses. Remember ATGATT & ride like they're all out to get you. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Chuck was coming to homecoming, his first one, this year with his family. He was 41. He leaves behind his wife of 15 years, Jennifer, and his three children, Hazel, Edward, and Michael. Here's his obit...http://qctimes.com/news/local/obituaries/charles-o sborne/article_ccbd0988-28bf-576d-9185-f2e7849d9a9 6.html | ||
| Doz |
He died doing what he loved, I wish the same for myself. But sheltering yourself from life is a shame, go live it! Sorry to hear of a fellow rider's passing and wish the best for those around him. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Over the years that I have been riding, I have known people who went down to never get up. It shocks you. Each person has a different reaction to it. Best advice is if this is affecting you that strongly. Take some time to reflect and let the shock pass over to where you are thinking straight again to make an informed decision. | ||
| Sifo |
I was out last night with two riding buddies from my youth. One of them made the decision to stop riding after his uncle was in a bad accident while riding with him. He had a terrible 3 week death. I would never presume to try to convince my buddy to throw a leg over a bike again. It's too personal of a decision. The other buddy I was with last night got hit with his wife on the back of his BMW. They were both busted up and had long rehab, but still ride. My brother spent a while in a coma after getting hit. He took close to 30 year off of riding. I really enjoy when I get to ride with him now, but never wanted to pressure him to get on a bike. Riding will always be dangerous. At the same time, none of us will get out of this alive. How you live matters, in so many ways. Can you be prepared for today to be your last day on this Earth? To me, that's a bigger question than should I ride. | ||
| Etennuly |
This is sad news. Much more so for his family. May he rest is peace and may his family find peace. | ||
| Ratbuell |
My deepest condolences to Chuck and his family and friends. It is always sad to see a rider down, even moreso when it's a Bueller/badwebber. As to the OP's question...you need to make your own choice. I also, apparently, died in an accident back in July 2008. Some bits and pieces start here and go forward through some of the Storm Fronts archives, http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/37/385065.html?1218227407, with my now-ex wife posting under my name. The photos are no longer on the server, but here's one from the visit:  I would be the one in the body brace, with the stoned look in my eyes. 60mg a day of narcotics will do that to you - and looking at that photo, I have exactly the same connection to the event you do - looking at a photo and being told about it. I don't remember it one bit. I was extraordinarily lucky. Every step I take hurts, to this day, but I'm lucky I get to take those steps. I have a 3" screw they took out of my left knee, about a year after I was discharged, that I've attached to a quick-release keychain. I have one of the other sides of that keychain on every single riding jacket zipper, and I make it a ritual to make sure the screw is on my jacket every time I ride, as a not-so-gentle reminder. People ask me every day "why do you still ride?". My answer is, because I've been dead once and now I want to live. Every single day, every single mile, I want to live my life to the fullest because we never know when that light switch will be flipped, and our life is put (back) in the "off" position. Your choice must be yours. I agree with the advice to set it aside and dwell on it for a bit, don't push either way, and just see what your gut says. I know I am a more attentive, careful rider - and I am more attentive to life in general. There are ups and downs, every day...but in the end, I win because there's "every day". We all do, and I think that's what people forget. We're lucky to be here, we're lucky to have our friends and families, and we need to remember to LIVE while we're here. The trick is, everybody has a different definition of "live" and sometimes it's hard to figure that out. For me, it means not hanging up my helmet. For others, it may mean something different....and that's the challenge. | ||
| Etennuly |
"Is this a sign?? Should I sell my bike??" That is up to you. Only you. I go through periods where I feel like I cannot mentally breathe if I have not been on my bike. I love it. Sometimes nothing can feel better than hanging the twisties on my Uly. It is truly the feeling of freedom. Real freedom, where you are untouchable by everything else that matters. That is a big part of the Permagrin that comes with this particular brand of motorcycle. Like a fine knife, it carves corners so predictably and easily that it can allow even a sloppy rider like me to feel like I am at one with the machine. I don't even have to think about riding, it just happens. On the other hand, there are times where my attention is some where else, I will be distracted by something that disallows my mental freedom. These things can shake my confidence and disrupt my attention span so I lay off from riding sometimes until I get my self back together. It needs to feel right. | ||
| Ronbob43 |
I had a high side in 1969 that separated my right shoulder and made me consider leaving the sport I had taken up 6 years earlier at the age of 20. What if my 3 year old daughter had been with me? How would I deal with that? The next morning I was shifting clutchless and throttling left handed around the neighborhood with my right arm in a sling. I couldn't live on what ifs. I am most alive when on 2 wheels and 26 was too young to die. Irresponsible and selfish, but that is the choice I made. RIP to all those who die while doing what they must. | ||
| Daves |
RIP | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Rat - Been there done that! Agree completely. Got my brace laying in a corner on my porch. F'ers suck don't they? I do wish I remembered more of the helicopter ride to the trauma center though. Bought my Uly one month out of the hospital and was riding as soon as I lost the brace. OP: No. Choice is your's, but don't just simply give it up. | ||
| Wesleyb82 |
I didnt mean to make this post about me, I was just freaked out and upset last night. I came to know Chuck after he sold me some parts through classifieds. We talked on the phone and exchanged emails. After the sale we kept talking about my work on the bike and his work on his. I'm new to to a lot of this and he always made himself available to me and asked me to call anytime I had a question. He told me about the upcoming homecoming and tried to convince me to go. He told me about his work polishing and finishing his tuber make over. He was restoring his M2 and spoke proudly about it. He described his 1125 and his first ride on it a couple times (the first time he had a few drinks in him) and described it was "a totally different beast" from the tubers and that it could do over a hundred in third. He was proud of it and said he loved to ride it. From the few calls I had with him he seemed like a really good guy. I want to know what happens to the cage drivers in these situations. I wasnt there, but it appears this person made a serious mistake that cost a mans life and robbed three children of a father and a wife a husband. The consequences need to be serious, then maybe people will start being more careful. A car can be fatal to a rider, its the same as someone operating a gun, and the consequences need be the same. Rest in peace brother, I'm praying for your family. I dont mean to take the focus off our downed brother but I do appreciate the responses to my question. I love to ride but it terrifies me and for good reason, if you saw me ride you would probably be terrified for me too. I have a stopped or pinned riding style, two extremes. This mentality is why I havnt had a drink in 9 years. I try to do things to eliminate this, I dont ride to work anymore since I tend to try to make up time and take risks and also early commuter drivers are dangerous, I try to wear open face helmets instead of full face since I ride slower, and at the end of last season I was only riding through secluded (knee dragging) twisties and stayed off the roads almost entirely to avoid cages. I watched a 80 minute youtube video last week on motorcycle crashes called no prisoners 2012. Half are riders speeding, passing or otherwise doing something sketchy like lane splitting and half are caused by cages, mostly in intersections. I have ridden once since I saw this and in about 30 minutes I realized I had gone through about 4-5 intersections with cars waiting to turn in front of me. At any moment at these intersections someone could pull out in front of me. I started flashing my brights to try to grab their attention. We all have to be aware when we ride, but is being hyper aware and creating anxiety defeating the purpose of riding?? What can be done to minimize our risk/exposure? I also want to add that I got life insurance 6 months ago for my wife and my 3 year old son and GDit I wish I had something to Chuck, but who knows he might have had it. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I think your first mistake is "trying to grab their attention". That puts YOUR safety in THEIR hands. I don't trust other human beings with MY safety. Sorry, but they prove themselves un-worthy every time I turn around, change the channel, go to a store, or watch the news. The answer that's been serving me very well for nearly 20 years in the saddle, save for one event (noted above) which by all research appears to have been a mechanical malfunction, is this. *I* pay attention - enough attention for me, and for the other guy, and for the guy behind him. *I* assume I'm invisible to EVERYone, and I ride accordingly. *I* expect the "other guy" to do something wrong, and I leave myself an out. *I* take the responsibility. And in the end...I thoroughly enjoy the ride  You're going to have to find your balance...but it is possible to be adequately (I hesitate to use the term "hyper") aware without creating anxiety about it. A word about the videos, though...it's a form of target fixation. If you go into a turn too hot, and look at a tree with the mentality "s**t I hope I don't hit that tree"....guess what you're gonna hit? If you focus on the accidents more than the riding...it may be time for you to take a step back, and re-evaluate. That is not meant to belittle Chuck and what happened, and what his loved ones are going through - not at all. But...what do you want to pay more attention to - the accidents? Or the riding? | ||
| Panhead_dan |
"We all have to be aware when we ride, but is being hyper aware and creating anxiety defeating the purpose of riding??" No. First, creating anxiety is not desired and can be controlled or eliminated with familiarity. "What can be done to minimize our risk/exposure?" Ratbuell described what most successful riders do above but I take it a step further. I don't ride like I'm invisible. I ride like I AM visible but they are going to try to kill me on purpose. With this mindset as I ride, they simply can't hurt me. Or at least I have stacked the chips in my favor. I've been doing this for decades and the only time I have been hurt was when I hurt myself. I'm still working on that one. | ||
| Wesleyb82 |
I always ride defensively and it has prevented accidents before, I always assume theyre not going to see me and it has saved me from a crash at least twice. I also stay out of blind spots, I ride far enough behind other cars to be seen by others, I wear a yellow helmet, I choose a lane and lane position based on conditions and normally ride in the left side of the left lane in two way traffic. Anyone know a good source for defensive motorcycle riding and or best practices? The specific situation I am most fearful of, and what Chuck feel victim to, is getting cut off by cages. Cars pulling out of driveways without looking or turning left through an intersection. If you're riding through an intersection and a car in the opposite lane turns left in front of you at the wrong time you have seconds before impact and it doesnt seem to be enough time to do anything to change the outcome. With that realization Im now starting to ride through intersections with anxiety and this is why i started flashing my light on my last ride. At any second if they decide to go I would be totally fu*ked. Its the same as someone pointing a gun at me. Does anyone else think this way? My last thought, and maybe this will sound insane, but I am asking the badweb community these questions, but only those who have been lucky enough are able to answer. How many voices like Chuck are now silent? How would they respond to my questions? I'm still shook up but thanks for the responses. | ||
| 86129squids |
Hang in there, buddy... my $.02 is this: If it helps, see about taking a defensive rider course- or whatever may help you wrap your head around the whole thing. Joe put up some sage advice for sure- the man has LIVED it. I can vouch for his riding prowess also, rode the better part of the journey to HC 2010 with him. In the final analysis, if you are just too spooked to ride on the street, get a dirt bike! Still risky, but no cages. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
There are alot of folk here with more experience than me and probably better answers to your questions but my 2cents. "opposite lane turns left in front of you" : just stay to far right of lane and slow down to a safe comfortable speed. "Cars pulling out of driveways without looking" : well... if you see a car waiting to pull out...slow down and be cautious. If they are gonna just pull out without looking there is not much you can do. The road doesn't belong to you but there will be times when you can believe that. (around traffic is probably not one of them) At intersections I slow down, try to be extra cautious/aware of all surroundings. If your use to the road/area/traffic flows it helps. Just use your common sense. Sometimes it is best to take a couple steps back and think about it. Every situation is different. Rip. (Message edited by xdigitalx on April 08, 2013) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Condolances to the family and friends. Its a decision we all have to make. After the first decision (do you ride) there could be a thousand other decision (Helmet? Armored jacket? Armored pants? Ride at night? Do a track day? Do drills in lot? Spend time on a dirt bike? etc. etc. etc.) You can stack the odds to be much more in your favor... maybe from 7x more likely to be severely injured in an accident (where you start if you just "go buy a bike) to maybe 2x more likely to be severely injured (if you go to pretty absurd lengths to try and stay safe). I personally used the Hurt Report like a project plan and checked every box I could check to improve my odds. | ||
| Rick_a |
I've been street riding daily for twelve years now. Definitely not for everyone. When my wife complains about drivers in the car I tell her not to ever ride in traffic on a motorcycle. I try to be assertive and sometimes border on aggressive. It feels as if I don't own my piece of road I will be run over. When I worked in the motorcycle industry I'd see the result and hear stories of horrific accidents daily. The crumpled mass of blood spattered bikes were a daily reminder of what could happen to anyone. Seeing the broken rider come in to look at their totalled bike for the last time or a significant other explaining that the rider had passed happened all too often. Luckily thus far I've been hurt more on bicycles that on motorcycles. My aim for that to remain that way. My worst accident to date was a high speed highside on the track. While sore and aching from nerve damage and soft tissue injuries for about a year I was back on the road as soon as I got the bike back together. | ||
| Wesleyb82 |
Never heard of The Hurt Report, reading it now. From the summary the most common scenario is one which we have no fu*king control over other than wearing an orange jumpsuit?? How do we reduce the probability of this specific situation?? "8. The most frequent accident configuration is the motorcycle proceeding straight then the automobile makes a left turn in front of the oncoming motorcycle." "10. Intersections are the most likely place for the motorcycle accident, with the other vehicle violating the motorcycle right-of-way, and often violating traffic controls." "14. Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps (on in daylight) and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets." "29. The typical motorcycle accident allows the motorcyclist just less than 2 seconds to complete all collision avoidance action." http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html (Message edited by wesleyb82 on April 08, 2013) (Message edited by wesleyb82 on April 08, 2013) | ||
| Sifo |
Be alert. Watch for the slightest amount of movement as you are approaching the car. If you can watch the relationship of the top of the tire to the fender. The earlier you see it happening the earlier you can react. You already have recognized your options should the car pull in front of you right? If you don't know your escape route, you probably won't find it when needed. No offense intended here, after all we have never met, but some people just aren't quick enough upstairs to be as safe on a bike as I would want. Drinking or other chemicals just makes it that much worse. Riding safely demands a very quick mind. Even then, there are situations where you can get boxed in with only bad options left. It's still good to be able to recognize the best of the bad options. I'm amazed on how many people fail to see a big yellow school bus. The odds of that person noticing a biker is close to non-existent. | ||
| Chauly |
+1 to Sifo. One stat that I quote in my MSF classes is that over half of the car-train incidents involve the car hitting the train. Think about that... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Control the things you can control, try and mitigate the things you can't (i.e. wear a lot of safety gear and be able to do some amazing things on a motorcycle if the need arises). | ||
| Sifo |
It also helps to simply practice those skills. Find an empty parking lot and practice. | ||
| Jumbo_petite |
My condolences to the family and friends of Mr Osborne Rat Well said on both posts. I too should not be here or maybe here but not in the heath that I am from an accident in 1987. My actions and habits that night on the bike and prior to that night all but assured sooner than later I would be involved in a accident. I have since learned , grown and matured into a more alert and safer rider. After 39 days they rolled my out of the hospital and another three months on crutches. I have a rather large Titanium plate in my head and a Krunchner nail(pin from inside of my left femur) on my stereo cabinet as reminders. Riding is a passion that has never wained and I used what I was doing wrong to learn from and ride better. OP Take your time evaluate your feelings and whatever decision you make will be correct. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
I don't ride street hardly at all. In the last 4 years, I've rode all of about 120mi total. None last year. Probably selling the street bike this spring yet. I enjoy the open road, but I don't enjoy town riding at all. From crap roads, dirt, debris, cars, dogs, balls, etc, etc. My riding time is now spent at the track on a dedicated track bike. It's more fun, more exciting, more skillful, and safer. Does shit still happen, yep, but no worries about 90% of the issues that need to be addressed on the street. I have been in an accident, and got extremely lucky to not have major lasting damages, and that I woke up at all. Accidents are going to happen, nothing can shield you from everything. I realize that taking to the track isn't the right path for everyone, but it is very enjoyable, and I believe that everyone should try it. If for nothing else, the skills learned at the track could save your life on the street someday. (Message edited by 99buellx1 on April 08, 2013) |
