| Author | Message | ||
     86129squids |
Hey all, thought I'd share this- just finished the whole thing (it'll take a while), was a great and fascinating read. My main take-away from it all is this: WHY in GOD'S NAME, with such a GINORMOUS defense budget, does the USA not provide properly for her veterans? Military service was never an option for me, due to medical reasons- my father was a Korean war vet though, and many of my BW friends here are as well... I know this horse has been beaten to a puree, but for CHRISSAKES, it just pisses me off. For all active and retired servicemen and women, I have an undying gratitude... thanks for putting up with the rant. Now, on to the article: http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama -bin-laden-0313 | ||
| Hootowl |
I respect his accomplishments, but every idiot in the military knows that you lose your benefits when you get out. He knew, or should have known, that separation meant loss of pay and benefits. It's a job, like any other. Well, other than being a congress critter. Those guys get benefits for life after a 2 year hitch. Sucks that he's in the boat he's in, but in the military you don't win a prize for doing your job, you just get a meager pay check. He did his job. Then he got out. I don't understand why he expects anything other than what he got, which was an honorable discharge and a DD214. That's all anybody gets, regardless of who they killed, unless they transfer to the fleet reserve. He didn't. Flame away. | ||
| Sifo |
In the interest of accuracy, Congress critters need 5 years of service to get a pension. http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30 631.pdf
With that out of the way, our service members should be treated at least as well as our elected representatives. I haven't read the article at this point, but I do wonder about leaving the service after 16 years. It seems like a bad decision to me, but I'm sure there are factors that I'm unaware of. No doubt people don't join the military seeking fortune, but too many wind up close to poverty. Perhaps they should unionize.  | ||
| Hootowl |
I stand corrected. Still a pretty sweet deal that they voted on for themselves. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
But the Shooter will discover soon enough that when he leaves after sixteen years in the Navy, his body filled with scar tissue, arthritis, tendonitis, eye damage, and blown disks, here is what he gets from his employer and a grateful nation: Nothing. No pension, no health care, and no protection for himself or his family. should have stayed in another 4 years or from the sounds of it, tried for a medical discharge He knew the deal... maybe he should look into re-enlistment | ||
| Two_seasons |
Here is alot more to this story than meets the eye. On the homefront, he is currently seperated from his wife. I'm sure he would have stayed in for another four, given the opportunity. You don't just throw away 16 years! Like I said, there is more to this than we will probably ever know. I'm not sure why they can't give him a "witness protection" kind of deal, along with his immediate family. | ||
| Hootowl |
Not necessarily. I got our after 12. There are many reasons people decide to leave. Pretty sure he wasn't forced out. Even during the dark days of the Clinton administration when you had to have a waiver from God to reenlist, they weren't kicking out operators. If he wasn't medically fit, they would have medically retired him. It appears that he left of his own free will. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I don't think the issue is that he's getting what he's supposed to be getting according to current conditions - I think the issues is that he (and everyone else) should be getting more. 16 years is still a long time, and the dude was a SEAL. It seems there should be SOMETHING, if even just more assistance to assimilate to civilian life. If you read the article, it's pretty clear that he's just tired and beat up and doesn't want to be away from his kids for 300 days a year anymore, wondering if they'll ever see their dad again. I don't think that's unreasonable. Hell, I got better job-finding assistance after I gradutated college... | ||
| 86129squids |
Hope youn's DO read the whole thing, 'tis worth it fo sho. I got a good chuckle at the part when he and his mentor, along with the author and the Shooter's wife IIRC, went to see "Zero Dark Thirty"... I've always kinda regretted that I never got the chance to serve, to learn that kind of discipline. Life has been pretty good to me otherwise... we all have to play the cards we're dealt. That's another takeaway from the piece, the Shooter seems to slightly be at peace with his hand, but I maintain that instead of just ONE freakin stealth plane, we could throw that $$$ at the meatware. Glad to see the comments, good buddies. Given any number of topics we could work on, this one certainly merits keen observance and discussion. | ||
| Hootowl |
"doesn't want to be away from his kids for 300 days a year anymore," That's why I got out after 12 years. It wasn't worth it any longer. "seems there should be SOMETHING, if even just more assistance to assimilate to civilian life." The Navy has a transition assistance program. In fact, TAP class is mandatory prior to discharge. The vast majority of people leaving the service do not use the assistance offered. | ||
| Loki |
Also in the interest of accuracy. He has five years of full medical through the VA as of yet. Yes, the family is not covered though. I too, walked out that door at 16 yrs. I did not expect anything but my 214. They did pay to move me back home though. Unless you get a good group of people out processing you. Its up to the member to ask the questions. | ||
| Pnw_uly |
Like a similar, but different, thread, I'm fighting the temptation to start a diatribe on the continuous rampant violation of the Non-Disclosure Statement that every special operator has signed either after assessing and joining a unit or (usually again) prior to classified missions...obviously for several reasons, most significant (to me anyway) is the TTPs revealed either unwittingly or "rationalized for release" that might jeopardize future similar operations. . . So, decided to post this instead. . . http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8e464776e6/the-na vy-seal-who-killed-osama-bin-laden Agree with most everything posted - - you depart military service prior to 20 years at your peril. . . No way he was unaware of the potential ramifications of his decision to leave the Navy. | ||
| Ulyranger |
IMHO the Administration takes the hit for opening the box on the take down of OBL. They "leaked" way too many details in the very first days that never should have been released. Heck, movie deals were in the works probably before the heroes involved were even back in country. While I too think these quiet professionals should maintain opsec after separation, it is hard to hang them out to dry without a very critical eye cast towards an administration that has used their hard deeds as political fodder in full blown celebrity mode. I am all for transparent government, but in cases such this I/we do not need to know in real time. Let the professionals handle the problem. After the dust settles and an appropriate delay, let the public know the results...and the results only. No happy dances, no releasing operational details like which unit did what, no in depth stories of how hard the decision was and what my face looked like on camera as we sit in the Situation Room... I for one will not throw these Operators under the bus now after they have been used to the fullest extent possible, in every conceivable way to further someone else's political celebrity. I haven't read the whole article yet and certainly don't know the Operator involved, or his exact situation, but think we as a nation should help all our returning vets to assimilate back into society. They certainly have much to offer and are a valuable asset. Government is not and should not be the only answer, we can all play a part in this on many levels. A call to action for our Nation..... | ||
| Pnw_uly |
IMHO the Administration takes the hit for opening the box on the take down of OBL. They "leaked" way too many details in the very first days that never should have been released. Heck, movie deals were in the works probably before the heroes involved were even back in country. While I too think these quiet professionals should maintain opsec after separation, it is hard to hang them out to dry without a very critical eye cast towards an administration that has used their hard deeds as political fodder in full blown celebrity mode. . . . After the dust settles and an appropriate delay, let the public know the results...and the results only. No happy dances, no releasing operational details like which unit did what, no in depth stories of how hard the decision was and what my face looked like on camera as we sit in the Situation Room... Agree with these comments 100%; my statement was geared more to those with "expected entitlement" after completion of their military service, as well as those (obviously with more success than "the Shooter") to cash in on the military operations and experiences they signed statements claiming they would not divulge. Sure, easy to rationalize violating a Non-Disclosure Statement when viewed in relation to the actions of the administration, but if we are using any political motives as a barometer for our actions, then, . . . well, uh, . . . nevermind. So helping our veterans assimilate back into the work force - - All for it. But employers want workers that will improve their organization, be it profitability, efficiency, growth, etc., not just to hire individuals because they've jumped out of aircraft or had the fastest time on the "Darby Queen". . . Veterans need to transfer and articulate their military experiences and training into the skills needed for today's economy, and express on resumes and interviews how these skills will improve their potential employers' organization. At least, that's my thoughts on it... | ||
| Hootowl |
Follow up... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/15/seal-who-kill ed-bin-laden-reportedly-knew-hed-lose-benefits/?te st=latestnews | ||
| Pnw_uly |
Whew, thanks for posting - - thought I had killed this thread. . . Good article, seems everyone who posted here was of the same mindset - - nobody "threw this guy under the bus", he pretty much dove under the wheels on his own and then told the driver to back up and do it again a few times. . . | ||
| Xl1200r |
Pnw - I agree with your last post, I guess my opinion is that I think the gov't should do a little more for these guys if they decide to leave before 20 years, with healthcare for their family for a specified amount of time being the most obvious to me. At the end of the day, these guys sacrifice a lot for the rest of us - I'd like to see them taken care of a little more when they're done. The reality is that veterans represent a disproportionately high number of unemployed and homeless - I'd like to see us try to better understand why and put measures in place to proactively prevent that. Again, I fully understand that no one forced this guy to join, no one forced him to be a SEAL and no one forced him to stay longer than 4 years, but the fact is he did and in my mind that deserves a little consideration when they decide to leave to ease that transition into civilian life. I get the impression that ex-convicts coming out of prison have more resources than vets... Not saying that' right or wrong, but an interesting observation none the less. | ||
| Hootowl |
I'm probably going to catch hell for this, but the vast majority of people entering the service as enlisted men and women do so directly from high school. They have no job skills, and no college education. The vast majority of service members who leave the service after four years have no college education, and no job skills that relate to the civilian world. Being a vet doesn't necessarily make you a good salesman, marketing guy, or database administrator. Unless they go back to school, which is difficult, since they're four years removed from the support system they had as a teenager, being unemployed, and thus homeless, is a very real danger. This is not a recent development. The kicker now though, is that that there aren't really very many jobs to be had, and people fresh out of the military aren't in a good position to get the jobs that are available to people of their skill level and experience. Not sure what we can do about that. I landed on my feet, but only because I entered a job field that was, and pretty much still is, wide open, where entry and mid level positions do not require a degree. | ||
| Sifo |
No grief from me Hootowl. You simply point out some, IMO, accurate things. As with most things in life, they are what you make of them. Most people throw away opportunity. Some things that a service member can leave with, and this will vary with individual situations, education benefits, a nice nest egg (assuming you haven't spent all you've earned, your basic costs of living are taken care of for you by the military), a sense of responsibility that would in civilian life take many more years to develop. Of course watching my nephews, one who just got out last November, and one who should be out in July, people just don't make the most of their situations. My nephew that just got out, actually has some pretty good opportunities. Just not in the area where he wants to live. I think the same sort of, less than optimal decision making went into the OBL shooter that this thread is about. We all make choices and have to learn to live with them. Having said that, I think we could do better for those who willingly put their lives on the line to serve out country. Sadly, many, who ironically claim to care about the less privileged, see this as an area to make cuts. | ||
| Ulyranger |
Pnw uly, I think we're probably closer together on this than apart. We all have to live with our choices, even those that have previously served with distinction and valor. On the discharge and reentry to civilian life thing I think my comments may have been taken wrong. Probably my lack of articulation though. What I meant by assimilation did not necessarily mean to guarantee a job as much as just providing for the transition to civilian life. I think we owe them that much. If the problem is lack of awareness of these programs, then let's work on that. I think measuring against the complete lack of work ethic I see in many youths these days, I believe the vast majority of vets have much to offer this nation out of military service. But what the heck do I know....  | ||
| Hootowl |
"I think measuring against the complete lack of work ethic I see in many youths these days, I believe the vast majority of vets have much to offer this nation out of military service.' I heartily agree. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
First, I'll say thanks to the guy for his service. He and all other vets put there life on the line so we can enjoy our freedoms. 2nd, He should keep his trap shut about his missions. I still can't believe our military (and other govt orgs) give or provide sensitive material. 3rd, Currently (and for as long as I can recall) the military requires 20 years of service to receive full benefits. Leave before then and get what he is going to get- not much of nothing. 4th, I understand he may have scars and physical aliments from his assignment, but last I checked the SEALs were an all volunteer unit and known as the most physical gruelling unit in the US Military. He could have picked a different MOS. 5th, The job market sucks. He may have to accept the fact that he won't be able to find a job that matches his skill level. He may have to take a "menial job". 6th, Perhaps the military needs to offer different levels of retirement. Wanna be a desk jockey? 25 years. Wanna be a standard grunt? 20 years. Wanna do the most dangerous job going? 16 years. |
