| Author | Message | ||
     Buellinachinashop |
I'm surprised Mossberg doesn't make an AR platform outside their crappy 22 stuff. | ||
| Seanp |
Here's a question - in order to zero a new sight, should I use the good stuff, (Federal Premium) or the cheap stuff (Wolf)? I have forty rounds of the Federal and sixty of the Wolf. It's all I may have for a little while... | ||
| Jramsey |
zero a new sight I assume "sight" your mean irons/open verses a telescope.} | ||
| Seanp |
A Burris AR-332, yes. 3x prism sight... | ||
| Sifo |
IMO, you could zero it pretty well using cheap ammo. Worst possible case is that you find you have to fine tune it just a bit when you switch ammo. A lot depends on the skill of the shooter. Many will never see the difference between Wolf and premium ammo. Wolf BTW is largely cheap because of steel casings which doesn't hurt accuracy much, if at all. | ||
| Nukeblue |
rule of thumb is zero at 25 yds puts you on again at 300. zero at 50 yds puts you on again at 200 yds. i've chrono'd wolf with as much as 800 fps difference in velocity. i quit using it after that. good ain't cheap, and cheap ain't good. we battle sight zero at 50 yds. zero with what you plan to shoot most, plink with the rest (Message edited by nuke-blue on January 21, 2013) | ||
| Jramsey |
If a telescope shoot 2-3 rounds from a good rest, if they group close together wherever on the target, then hold on original point of aim and adjust the cross wires of telescope to were the bullets hit the target. Shoot another 3 shoot group......you should be real close. As to your question about ammo, most users wouldn't know or couldn't tell the difference let alone know/think about the standard deviation in velocity between standard or match ammo which has a great effect on where the bullets print on the target. So shoot have fun and enjoy. | ||
| Jramsey |
rule of thumb is zero at 25 yds puts you on again at 300. zero at 50 yds puts you on again at 200 yds. For all practical purposes 25 yards and 100yards is more realistic. } | ||
| Aesquire |
There are 4 points in a bullet's trajectory you are concerned about when you zero. All projectile weapons in a gravity field are fired at an upward angle in relation to the Sightline. The bullet does not "jump", it is shot up and sideways in a parabolic arc. First, is the distance/how far away the bullet rises into the sight's center/crosshair... the Sightline. Second is the distance at the peak of the trajectory, the highest point over sightline. Third is the distance where the bullet passes down through the sightline. Fourth is a distance where the bullet is as far BELOW the sightline as it was Above at peak. What these distances are depends on the round fired and gun used. Velocity & drag. The first and third points, where the bullet passes though the Sightline, are the Zero's. That's the 25 & 100 yards you are talking about. Those numbers vary greatly, depending on YOUR choice of zero. The second, and fourth distances, determine your "maximum point blank range". For hunting rifles usually figured at 6 inches, for Varminters, 2-4. What this really means is that any shot from the muzzle to X yards away ( the fourth point ) will hit inside that 12 inch or less space. For Deer sized targets, you can ignore distance out to maximum point blank range. ( MPBR ) Here's a handy program that will help visualize these things. http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/ ballistics.aspx I suggest downloading the "Remington Shoot" program. Play with it. In the case of the .223, with the common 50gr accutip, it will cross the sightline at 50 and 150 yards, or 110 and 200 yards, or...... Depending what you chose. It IS important to know that the bullet will be low in relation to the sightline until that first crossing point. It will begin the vertical distance from muzzle to sightline. So at close range, across the room hostage situations, aiming at the exposed face of the bad guy may hit the hostage. Zeroing at 25 or 100 yards isn't going to change that very much so use the most pertinent Maximum Point Blank Range numbers you prefer. I like a 200 yard zero, usually. For a 300 magnum I'm doing long range work with, that might be 300 or more. In reality, if you shoot at a 100 yard range, mostly, zero for 100 yards. If it's a 200 yard range, 200. It's just freaking easier to be able to hand a buddy the rifle and have it hit where he aims without a ballistics lecture. Then learn the ballistics. | ||
| Rick_a |
Free ballistics calculator: http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx (Message edited by Rick_A on January 22, 2013) | ||
| Seanp |
Excellent info guys, thanks! | ||
| Nukeblue |
jramsey,the ar platform has a large distance from the barrel bore to the sight line. zero at 50 puts it back on at 200 approx. that's what we use for battle sight zero http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=65679 | ||
| Reepicheep |
Great discussion. When thinking this though while sighting in guns, I was always tempted to simply sight in the gun at close range (say 25 or 50 yards) to hit the same distance under my point of aim as the barrel is below my sighting device. So the sight simply establishes a perfect parallel with the axis of the barrel. Then, when shooting, all I have to do is first hold a little high, based on the distance between my sight and the barrel, which is really easy to remember as it is pretty much at the tip of my nose at the moment. Secondly, I have to guesstimate bullet drop, which is a little harder, but not difficult to swag, especially as it would be incredibly unusual for me to ever shoot at more than 100 yards. The math just seems simpler (and therefore more reliable). My sights tell me where the gun is pointed, and it's up to me to think about where the bullet will hit. The down side of this is that you may end up covering smaller targets if you are using something like iron sights. Although a 10/22 with a red dot site, a brick of ammo, and a hillside covered with saltines or necco wafers is oh-so-fun to put the little red dot on the target, pull the trigger, and watch them vanish. Kinda like a magic eraser that works at 50 yards away.  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Prices are going up now by me. Hand guns have seen a jump of 50.00 to 100.00, especially the Springfields. Haven't see the AR's go up, other than the C-15. We got 15 in yesterday. A smattering of 15 guns. 4 Colts, a bunch of Smiths and a bunch of Ruger SR-556's. The Rugers were Cali compliant guns only. 10 round mags, pinned stock and no flash suppressor. I thought about one because I want a piston gun, but 1800.00 for it was not going to happen. | ||
| Macbuell |
I don't understand why flash suppressors are singled out for regulation? | ||
| Nukeblue |
http://www.rockwellarms.com/store/productdetails/S ig-Sauer-MPX-C-Carbine-MPX-C-9-T?gdftrk=gdfV23612_ a_7c1615_a_7c7792_a_7c3951 that looks tac & black | ||
| Sifo |
I don't understand why flash suppressors are singled out for regulation? A flash suppressor will help to hide your position in the doorway of the class room preventing the unarmed teacher from being able to effectively return fire to your position. I would have thought this would be obvious. | ||
| Sifo |
Needs some MC content!  | ||
| Nukeblue |
man that's some nice camo on the ar at the bottom. hardly saw it! | ||
| Aesquire |
"I don't understand why flash suppressors are singled out for regulation?" Because. Seriously, there is no reason at all. The whole term "assault weapon" is fake. It's a designed lie. A Straw Man. IN the Clinton ban it was a number of cosmetic features, with zero reason. To repeat. Give it a scary name and ban it. That's all there is to it. If it looks military, that's all you need. they are lying to you. Pretty much continuously. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
having only one common element to a 'military' gun.... they all have a trigger ! stupid uneducated bafoon - grrrr | ||
| Gregtonn |
Legal definition of Assault: An intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. Your pinkie finger could be considered an assault weapon. You "bird" finger? No doubt that should be amputated!!! G | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Gregtonn: "Your pinkie finger could be considered an assault weapon. You "bird" finger? No doubt that should be amputated!!!" I know you said that with tongue in cheek but with all seriousness; when I did my CCW training many years ago my instructor was explaining different scenarios and what is and is not a weapon. After a few different things that were definitely weapons and whether to use deadly force to repel them, he held up a ball point pen and asked if we thought that was a weapon. We all said "of course not". He then asked "what if I quickly jabbed it into your eye socket". Case closed. Anything can be used as a weapon and with deadly consequences if the threat is "real and immediate" as was taught to me. | ||
| Buffalobolt |
Bob, That reminds me of what my old martial art's instructor once taught me, and has stuck throughout the years... "There is always a weapon for each target. And, there is always a defense against each weapon. The key is to recognize and react! | ||
| D_adams |
Skip to 1:15 for the ink pen part. | ||
| Aesquire |
in "The Loo Sanction" ( sequel to "The Eiger Sanction" made into a movie starring Clint Eastwood and George Kennedy ) the protagonist is questioned about his martial arts abilities...Insultingly. His file status is "passed, but not qualified", questioned about THAT he states that anything can be used as a weapon. "This magazine for example" The questioner, a trained agent, laughs at him. The protagonist then uses a rolled up copy of "Punch" ( the brit version of National Lampoon ) to devastate the highly trained agent. http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Loo_Sancti on.html?id=R3QyHAWESycC decent read, although I prefer the Quiller series for pure tradecraft and utter ruthless action. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiller | ||
| Gregtonn |
"The protagonist then uses a rolled up copy of..." I first remember that in Shane by Jack Shaefer (pub. 1946/1949). The point was, anything can be classified as an "assault weapon". G | ||
| Gregtonn |
That reminded me, Shane is one of the best books I have ever read. I read it as a young boy and more than once since then. Guns and people are described honestly and with a... I don't have the words but it is seldom seen in today's world. http://www.fictionwise.com/ebooks/b97485/Shane/Jac k-Schaefer/?si=0 G | ||
| Just_ziptab |
I was going to order a .510 sizing die from Midway..$18.99. $40.00 with shipping! WTF? I sent them an email that I was a little pissed at the shipping for a less than 1 pound package and cancelled my shopping cart contents. So........I went with "Buy it now", ebay,$26.00........ WITH shipping included! Midway: Thanks for your email; this response has very important information, so please read it carefully. We are sorry, but unprecedented demand has temporarily raised our incoming email volume to the level at which it is no longer possible to provide a personal response to each email. We have taken the following action, until further notice: If your email is about a backorder or the inventory status/availability of a product, we will not be responding and suggest you log into your account to verify your current backorders. If you want to know inventory status or availability of any product, please refer to the specific product on our website – the information on the website is based on information from our vendors and is the most current and accurate information we have! We are receiving merchandise every day and shipping it out immediately to our Customers, but we don’t have a sense that demand will return to normal anytime soon. What you can be sure of is that everything we receive from our vendors goes directly to our Customers and at the price in effect at the time of the backorder – except of course if a vendor substantially raises the price, which none have. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
the meme continues |
