| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
Does the NRA think we should have a policeman on every fire truck and in every movie theater? How about every street corner? Is more guns really the solution? I believe the solution the NRA is really trying to preserve is the ability for those who want and are able (willing to train and practice) to arm themselves. Criminality thrives in the face of low resistance. If you know you are likely to only get a shot or two off before you are dropped, you are discouraged from making the school shooting your grand finale. | ||
| 99savage |
Aesquire I don't know what social aspect has made suicide a participant sport, but My first thought isn't video games I don't know either Video games might or might not send an unstable person off the deep end, I think they do sometimes. - Obsessive gaming has certainly been a common thread with all the mass killers THAT I AM AWARE OF.- But I don't know. BUT I am absolutely certain that they do enhance the proficiency of killers. None of the mass killers THAT I AM AWARE OF spent much time at the range but they laid down their rounds pretty well. Don't remember the exact numbers but in NYC most gunfights take place at less than 15 feet AND HALF THE SHOTS MISS COMPLETELY. - These are law enforcement officers (includes Transit Cops) with training and range time. Our mass killers do better than that. - What is the difference? | ||
| Kenm123t |
Have cop food and coffee at schools and you will have leos present. When unions killed the twinkie leos are in a dietary up roar. Cops and Bears both will find the doughnuts The best solution is putting a bounty on liberals. Send them to their natural envions Calif NYC Chicago Detroit etc. Once there they cant infest the rest of the country. | ||
| Sifo |
I don't know what social aspect has made suicide a participant sport, but My first thought isn't video games I have some thoughts on this. Suicide is often part of a "I'll show you" mindset where the person feels victimized by one or more people in their life. Usually this is manifested in the belief that just taking their own life will demonstrate how wrong the people around them were to treat them that way. Some extend the violence to other family members before taking their own life. Some extend the violence further. You also have those who, for what ever reason, don't want to take their own life. They would rather do suicide by cop. Cops have, to some degree, gotten better at dealing with the suicide by cop guy, where the mere threat of killing someone else often doesn't get you offed, so the suicide by cop person has to up the stakes in a public arena. Of course these are generalizations and every person who chooses to do this sort of thing has their own personal details. Some may also simply be psychopaths. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cops, soldiers, and civilians in firefights are in firefights, or some other high defensively stressed situation, before things come to blows.. Mass murderers are murdering defenseless and frightened civilians. | ||
| Sifo |
What is the difference? It's the difference between clubbing a baby seal and clubbing and adult tiger. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Don't most 1st persons use a mouse or came controller? in reality they are moving a cursor around on a screen.. and clicking a few buttons to move a character on the screen. Completely not moving at all..sitting on a sofa or in a chair. They are moving a mouse cursor... same as controlling the solid rectangle in that old tennis game PONG. Or any other arcade game especially the new ones.. If the games were full 3d surround it would be more obvious as a cause. Not saying the games don't have an effect,.. just that it is not at all the root. The root is in us all always has been, always will be. | ||
| Sifo |
Games. Correlation <> causation. I have little doubt that someone who would shoot up a mall or school would also get kicks playing shoot-em-up games. Do sex offenders look at porn? I have no doubt there's a correlation there. Does porn cause people to become rapists? The argument is often raised that porn actually provides a fantasy outlet that likely prevents people from acting out on their urge to rape. Truth is, I don't think we have meaningful statistics on either of these situations. Computer games as training to gain real world shooting skills. I have a real hard time accepting this one. Desensitizing a person to the idea of killing other, maybe, but not making them better at handling real guns. I don't care how much you play Guitar Hero, it wont teach you to play a guitar. Guns and guitars are about first being taught correct habits, and then committing those habits to muscle memory. Playing paint ball will both teach you gun shooting skills, and also condition you to be able to pull the trigger with another human being in the sights. How come we don't hear about how these shootings are done by people who have been training at paint ball parks? | ||
| Brumbear |
The best solution is putting a bounty on liberals. Send them to their natural envions Calif NYC Chicago Detroit etc. Once there they cant infest the rest of the country. That would most likely be the upper East side there aint that many liberals in the Bowery or Hells Kitchen that I can tell ya | ||
| Ducbsa |
Clinton, Pelosi, and Schumer like it!! http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/336637/cops -schools-eliana-johnson Great role models for integrity! | ||
| Kenm123t |
Brum once there in the afore mentioned locales. You can pen them up brand them you shouldnt have to Spay and Neuter they self abort their children any way. Set them up in circles and start them talking about social issues and they will never stop kinda like nuclear powered furbys. Circumlocution is a liberal identifier. | ||
| Aesquire |
I think we've got a consensus here. 1. the NRA spokesman is a jerk 2. no one supports a Federal Program to put Armed troops/police in your schools 3. Local control of these things makes a lot more sense. 4. we may disagree on if we want armed police in our school. Some don't approve. About right? | ||
| Fahren |
-Helen Keller | ||
| Ducbsa |
Interesting poll results: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/pol itics/general_politics/december_2012/most_feel_saf er_with_armed_security_guard_at_child_s_school | ||
| Kenm123t |
Apparently a New York Publisher feels safer with armed guard at front door. Gee wonder if they want to provide for the folks that were indentified as unarmed? ( lacking handguns in this case) | ||
| Sifo |
Seems that there's a reasonable number of teachers that want to carry in the classroom. Some, even if they have to risk their jobs to do so. http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-trainin g-teachers-to-use-guns-0109-20130108,0,4582657.sto ry | ||
| Macbuell |
My wife is a counselor at an elementary school and that school has what they call "resource officers". They are uniformed, armed, police officers that handle any needs to school has including truency, etc. Currently the officer is split between three schools so that would have to change if there were to be a true presence in the school for the entire day. Anyway, she says that once the kids get used to seeing the officer in school they quickly get used to it and there is no negative. Kids are not going to be scared and no one is going to living in fear due to a police officer on campus. Also, she said those officers are invaluable tools to have around as they can be brought in to help teachers with discipline and respect issues with students and also help to teach kids to respect but not fear authority. Anyway, any negative you hear about armed police in school is nothing but fear mongering and complete BS. | ||
| Pwnzor |
If cops shouldn't be at schools, then tell me.... where should they be? "to protect and serve" I can think of no better place... They can respond to other types of calls from the school and return when they're finished. All the schools around here have them. My school had them. My sons' schools had them. | ||
| Sifo |
No problem with cops at schools, but it really doesn't seem to be a solution to school shootings. At Columbine, they basically avoided the officer. The officer did shoot at them, but was out of range for a good shot. This is the problem with easily identifiable security. This is why they don't put police on airplanes for security. From my perspective, I really like when the police are at the schools dealing with the a-holes in cars picking up or dropping off their kids every day. | ||
| Bads1 |
Who said anything about identifiable. I have police in school's here.... 20 years plus. They are in plain clothes. | ||
| Sifo |
The post I replied to said officers who would be dispatched from the school for other calls. The implication there is uniformed officers. Plain clothes has certain benefits, especially where the officer can blend in. How do they manage that at a school? Our high school, back in the 70's had a narc cop who would hang out in plain clothes. Think people knew who he was? Not a teacher, administrator, or parent makes for an odd person to be hanging around the school. Still, I have no problem with this, it just isn't much of a solution. Of course, it really isn't much of a problem either. I just see better solutions to this almost inconsequential problem. What is the per-capita rate of kids getting shot by mass murderers in schools? I'm going out on a limb to say it's really low. | ||
| Blake |
Does the NRA think we should have a policeman on every fire truck and in every movie theater? How about every street corner? Is more guns really the solution? The NRA thinks that our young school children ought to enjoy professional armed protection; you know, like our congressmen, senators, and the entire executive branch. No the NRA is not advocating for more guns, just the freedom for law-abiding concealed-carry license holders to be able to carry their handguns as they wish, wherever they wish. In short, no more idiotic made for massacres "gun free zones"! | ||
| Blake |
Tom, People playing paintball are more akin to folks playing dodgeball. At just 300 FPS, you can watch the paintball fly and hit or miss. Like you note, video gaming is not about learning real firearms shooting skill. The thing with the blood-soaked kill or be killed role-playing video games is how they can condition people, desensitize them, to killing other people in civilian settings. It's pure psychological conditioning. Some are susceptible; most may not be. The guy playing paintball who (illegally) jacks his paintball gun up to 400+ FPS and walks around the arena terminator style might be one to watch out for. | ||
| Froggy |
This is not an often occurrence, while it does happen it is in the minority. The main reasons for suicide are bullying, excessive stress, and avoiding the results of something like a major loss (financial or love) or prison. Most of the causes fall under humiliation, sometimes people get humiliated to the point they can't take it anymore. Having a chemical imbalance in the head makes things worse and significantly increases the chances of a suicide taking place. The "I'll show you" thing is more about revenge than suicide. If they can get away with it, they usually will try to rather than being caught or killed. The suicidal ones are the fewest but most dangerous as they don't care of the outcome.
Indeed that is correct.
Yep, because that is not true. The majority of games sacrifice realism for entertainment, but there are more realistic titles that can gain you real world skills. Guitar Hero will not teach you how to play a guitar, but Guitar Smith uses a real electric guitar and teaches you how to play. Need for Speed games let you drive stupidly fast on streets with no real penalty for crashing, while iRacing requires you to use a nice wheel and pedal setup and races on real closed course race tracks with realistic physics and crashing intentionally gets you banned from the game. Similarly, in Call of Duty, if you are wounded you just hide behind a corner for a few seconds and you magically heal, in ARMA if you are hit there is a good chance you are down for the rest of the round even if the wound was not fatal.
Personally I disagree with this one, I would say watching a Bond movie or Dexter would desensitize someone, but I doubt any form of media is responsible for any killings. Some people like me were born unempathetic, and devoid of emotions like love and death.
You never know, one day the media will pick up on it as training grounds or something. One day they blame books, another they blame movies, another comic books, another on rock music, and currently it is video games. Perhaps if it grows in popularity to levels the above have, it will be targeted too.
I agree with this too. I honestly forgot there was a cop in my high school until this thread came up, I'm sure if someone was planning on shooting up a school they wouldn't need to do much different with a single cop present. | ||
| Sifo |
The main reasons for suicide are bullying, excessive stress, and avoiding the results of something like a major loss (financial or love) or prison. Most of the causes fall under humiliation, sometimes people get humiliated to the point they can't take it anymore. It is the humiliation that leads to them feeling like the only way to get back for the bullying is to kill themselves. In their mind, they think that the bully will feel the guilt of forcing them to take their life. Have you ever talked to a suicide counselor? I had that experience after a co-worker killed himself and our employer had one come in. Keep in mind, if they were thinking rationally, they would probably not be killing themselves. Yep, because that is not true. The majority of games sacrifice realism for entertainment, but there are more realistic titles that can gain you real world skills. Guitar Hero will not teach you how to play a guitar, but Guitar Smith uses a real electric guitar and teaches you how to play. And that is the key. You need experience with the real tool, whether it be a guitar, or a gun. A computer screen will NEVER teach your brain to recognize a sight picture. It will also never teach you to handle recoil or trigger pull. People playing paintball are more akin to folks playing dodgeball. I agree with that, BUT, we are never taught from an early age to NEVER point a dodge ball at another person. That's something that, if we are exposed to guns when young, is greatly emphasized. Even in adult gun training. I've played just a bit of paint ball. It's a blast to do, but the first time I took aim at a human being with the sights of a paint ball rifle, there was just a moment of hesitation in pulling the trigger. I actually remember how strange that hesitation felt, knowing it's just a game. That hesitation quickly get conditioned away though. Having played video games didn't condition that hesitation out of me though. | ||
| Froggy |
Indeed I have, I have made an attempt on my life in the past, and on rare occasions it still tempts me. Guilting the bully never occurred to me back then, and just like my peers it was just a method of ending the suffering without regard to how others would feel.
Yep. I remember watching a video a while back, I think it was with Penn and Teller, they took your typical video game playing kid, brought him to a shooting range, and he freaked out from the first shot. Video games don't kill people, guns don't kill people, psychos (like me) kill people.
Ok, my personality is a bit not normal, so that may be a factor here, but I personally never experienced this hesitation you mentioned. I did enjoy paintball last time I played it, but I always lost quick due to being fat and slow. I'll have to try doing it again one of these days. | ||
| Sifo |
Indeed I have, I have made an attempt on my life in the past, and on rare occasions it still tempts me. Guilting the bully never occurred to me back then, and just like my peers it was just a method of ending the suffering without regard to how others would feel. Glad your still around. There's a difference between counseling for your specific situation and counseling for the survivors of a successful suicide. There they get more into the mind set that often leads to suicides. It's the difference of a single data point and a trend. I've actually had four people close to me take their own life. Only one made a rational sense, tail end of terminal illness. One looking back, had obvious signs. | ||
| Hootowl |
"but I personally never experienced this hesitation you mentioned" "Some people like me were born unempathetic, and devoid of emotions" These two statements are related. Lack of empathy is a hallmark of the psychopath. "psychos (like me) kill people" You should get some help Froggy. And I mean that with all sincerity. Life is worth living. | ||
| Aeholton |
People playing paintball are more akin to folks playing dodgeball. I agree with that, BUT, we are never taught from an early age to NEVER point a dodge ball at another person. That's something that, if we are exposed to guns when young, is greatly emphasized. Even in adult gun training. I've played just a bit of paint ball. It's a blast to do, but the first time I took aim at a human being with the sights of a paint ball rifle, there was just a moment of hesitation in pulling the trigger. I actually remember how strange that hesitation felt, knowing it's just a game. That hesitation quickly get conditioned away though. Having played video games didn't condition that hesitation out of me though. Used to play a lot of paintball 15 or so years ago when my my son was in his early teens. Anyone who called a paintball marker a "gun or rifle" were sternly warned the first time. Second time got you ejected for the day. They used to be really touchy about that. Personally, I didn't care. I like to think that I have a pretty firm grasp on reality and didn't equate paintball with shooting someone with a firearm. Then again, we used to have BB gun wars with our Red Riders growing up on the farm. | ||
| Malott442 |
I read in a business law book once that sociopaths and CEO's have a scarily similar psychological profile. Or maybe it was somewhere else...... Dunno. I have to disagree with both sides of the video games vs. real life argument. There are certain things about video games that can be carried over to real life. I could make a list, I guess. 1. Sight picture vs. movement on foot. 2. Spray vs. semi. 3. Posture vs. accuracy. 4. Reloading timing. 5. Posture identification (armed vs. unarmed) 6. Global positioning to avoid flanking. Not to mention the fantasy factor. It can cause a rush, killing online. A rush that can become physically addicting. Is it not true that some fantasies become obsessions? Go look up the leader boards on Modern Warfare. Go look up those players' kill counts and playing time. It's sad, really. I'm not saying blame the video games, but I'm not saying look right past the possibility of the game being an influence to the right mind. |
