| Author | Message | ||
     Wolfridgerider |
Do you ever think our own military would turn their weapons on their own people... us... the people they have taken a oath to protect. The reason I ask is I just finished reading a Blog that implied just that. The theme of the post was how ignorant the people are that cling to the 2nd amendment as if they had a chance to overturn our government. The author went on and on about how the government had M1A1 tanks, Apache Helicopters and so on, while the "people" might have a AR15 with a 30 round clip.... It just PISSED ME OFF!! As a Marine Corps veteran, I can assure you and this idiot... I would have turned my weapon/s on whom ever would attempt to have me and my fellow Marines turn on our own people. I took a oath to defend our constitution against enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC. If the domestic happened to sit behind a desk in our government. So be it. The whole rant just rubbed my ass the wrong way.... and I needed to vent Carry on.  (Message edited by wolfridgerider on December 20, 2012) | ||
| Pwnzor |
Some might, but they would be outnumbered.  | ||
| D_adams |
I saw a manual a while back, US military (army I think) to control insurgency inside the US. If they have a plan in writing for it, I'd guess it's a fairly real possibility. Hope I can make it to a good bunker in time. Btw, that's treasonous talk, turning on your own gubmint. (Message edited by d_adams on December 20, 2012) | ||
| Panhead_dan |
As I understand it (vaguely), all branches of our military, with the exception of Marines, have sworn an oath that includes an agreement to fire on us if so ordered. Marine's oath includes verbiage that allows them to disobey an order that is contrary to the constitution or something like that. This new oath for all but Marine's has only been in place for a few years. There are several current, active military members here including several Marines. I hope they can comment on my statement and give us real facts about it. | ||
| Malott442 |
straight from military.com: "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." Notice that obeying orders of the president and superiors comes AFTER the constitution. | ||
| Sifo |
I agree some might. I think it would fracture the military from the top down. Sure the government "owns" the tanks, planes, and ships. The question is, who will have them when things fracture. It is likely that the government will find itself virtually unarmed. What you saw happening before last Friday was the common people arming themselves, preparing for a civil war. What you see now is clearing the shelves of everything possible, as fast as things can be restocked. That's not a good sign at all, regardless of where you stand politically, or on gun issues. I had someone at work this morning asking me about getting a gun. I asked if he had a FOID card yet. He said he just sent in his application. I told him, he's going to be unarmed for quite a while. FOID applications where taking over four months BEFORE the gun buying spree. What's your zombie plan? | ||
| P_squared |
Would the entire Military? No. Would some of the Military? Yes. I seem to recall the Army engaging a group of Vets on the National Mall sometime during the Great Depression (Google Bonus Army). I also seem to recall a place called Kent State. I also recall curtailing of Civil Liberties in the aftermath of Katrina by reportedly both NG and LEO. I'm not clear if the NG did so. Would Direct Orders be given along the lines of, "Subdue the populace and ensure all Civil Liberties are curtailed in your AO"? Not likely. The majority of Officers, SNCOs and NCOs would recognize that as an unlawful order & act accordingly. Would orders be given along the lines of, "Help the local government stabilize the AO and defend yourselves as necessary"? Possible. Most would follow those orders as well. It only takes a few folks w/ bad intentions to make a bad situation worse, ala Kent State and the oft overlooked reports/1st hand accounts of shots being fired before the Military members engaged. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
This is what scares me. | ||
| P_squared |
The easier "translation" of the above & in context with the thought process behind the blog you read Wolf is this: Obviously unlawful orders would not be given to the Military, and even if they were, they wouldn't be followed by the majority of Military members. We all know this, including the blog writer. Introducing the Military under the guise of any 'gray' areas, and then rapidly escalating the situation? All bets are off. Just my opinion based on history and my interactions with other .mil while active & after punching out. YMMV | ||
| Strokizator |
What about UN "Peacekeepers"? | ||
| Sifo |
What about UN "Peacekeepers"? You mean US troops with a handful of Canadian, French, British, and Australian troops thrown into the mix? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
there is an Army Field Manual on just that; as well as domestic internment camps. During WTO, we were locked, chocked, cocked and ready to roll. Had the Governor called a state of emergency that was beyond the power of control of the State and City Police - there would have been Armed and Armored National Guard troops on the streets of Seattle - with in 30 minutes. We had six APC's out at Boeing field; and sniper scouts on the rooftops ALL week. This was over ten years ago. What do you think has changed ? It starts with MAC-DIS, moves to interdiction and Martial Law then to Patrol and Internments. Most of the intell stuff is classified, but most of the MP stuff is open source. seek and ye shall find | ||
| Oldog |
In a word yes, PART of the current crop of politicians are little better than well mannered criminals in good clothes. They will take any action they can to retain "power" I can see BHO ordering the military to begin confiscation of legal weapons because of the school shootings or some other event "its for our own good" and folks resist. The military fight back working under what they see to be lawful orders. There will be incidents of excessive force triggered by the acts of both sides No military person - Ex military person should take offense. The soldiers that will be involved will be following orders and in many cases defending them selves from aggression. It happened in the americian revolution, we were subjects of the crown, we fought British regulars ( who were following legal orders ) We won, the rest is history ...... | ||
| Madduck |
That question was answered at Kent State when National Guard shot and killed 4 students. | ||
| Fast1075 |
This is freakin WEIRD!!! I tried to post several different youtube versions of CSN/Neal Young "Ohio"...I couldn' get any to work  | ||
| Fahren |
This is also a grayer area, with no simple yes or no answer. I believe you also have to include an increasingly militarized police force in this equation, special law enforcement "troops" armed as heavily as any branch of the military, patrolling our streets and stopping anyone out for a walk. Impossible? I think not. And what about the huge increase in DHS purchases of unmanned drones, for domestic use, and their expansion of unconstitutional powers? Reference In my optimistic moments, I see it as more plausible that the military would come to the defense of citizens whose rights are being trampled by private paramilitary contractors, DHS thugs, and heavily armed police. This is creepy, scary stuff happening on our soil, in our government. All the talk about gun control smacks of control of the citizenry, an attempt to disarm those who would carry out the patriotic duty called for in the very foundation of our country:
and guaranteed by the Second. I think the reality is far beyond what any crazy conspiracy theorist could come up with. You know things are crazy when Sifo and Naomi Wolf, an uber-liberal journalist and activist, can find such common ground. Naomi Wolf:
Tom/Sifo, not to single you out or anything :-) | ||
| Geedee |
| ||
| Kenm123t |
Governments last Century killed more of thier own people than were lost in all the wars combined. Look up Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership Great site ! | ||
| Fb1 |
Do you ever think our own military would turn their weapons on their own people... us... the people they have taken a oath to protect. What would a National Guardsman have done in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina if you had said "No!" when they demanded you turn over your lawfully-owned firearms? I'm paraphrasing, but I heard one Guardsman who was there and who personally confiscated lawfully-owned firearms recently say, "NOBODY said no." Paraphrasing again, I heard a civilian who was there, who had lawfully-owned firearms confiscated from him, say, "I didn't want to hand them over, but when you look down and see a half-dozen red dots dancing around on your chest, what else do you do?" So: Wolfie, If someone in uniform came to YOUR door and demanded you turn over your lawfully-owned firearms, you know, for the common good, and you said no, what do you think the outcome would be? Think they'd apologize for troubling you and simply drive away?
http://youtu.be/-taU9d26wT4 | ||
| Cowboy |
You are talking apples and oranges. There is no storm or looters Hell yes I will shoot. Obama has already taken our country to hell I refuse to live under this type of crap. I will not be nuttered as 1/2 of our country has been. | ||
| Reindog |
Cowboy, You might not want to be riding so high in the saddle at sunset with so much braggadocio as you make yourself an easy target. Remember that these threads are monitored by the self righteous who have no memory or allegiance to the US Constitution. Keep yer powder dry and tone it down in public, amigo. Carry on, BadWebHeads. | ||
| Buellinmke |
George W. Bush taught us that "if we see something, we should say something." I have seen many domestic threats posted on this website. | ||
| Ourdee |
We played a game in the neighborhood I grew up in. All kids should play it. It was called jailbreak. A porch or shed was picked to be the jail. The jailer or jailers had flashlights and walked around a house three times. Then would go capture the others by shining the light on them and calling out their name. Then put them into the jail. If an uncaught person tagged you while you were in jail, you could break out of the jail. And so it went till all were caught. Needless to say, no adult could catch or detain us in our neighborhood. The most fun escape and evasion training ever. The lessons learned in that game have served me well. | ||
| J2blue |
Back to the original question... I'm convinced that most of the self-righteous anti-gun(anti any part of the Constitution that isn't convenient for them) liberals are egg heads arguing out of their brain in a land of make believe. They are convinced of their own logic and the rest of us do not matter. On paper, sure, any attempt to overthrow the American Military by any citizen militia would be doomed to fail. But, that doesn't mean those who state the reason for the second amendment might as well give up, no matter what our musket toting forefathers were thinking at the time. I'm sure they saw precisely the predicament we are currently in and probably hoped that the citizens would have access to evolving military technology, too. In fact, the amendment doesn't simply say "guns", it says "arms"! I'm also quiet certain the founding fathers thought that any guard of the American government would be composed of like minded men and women who would easily betray tyranny in favor of their fellow man. That was the spirit of '76 that they lived! You had to decide if you would be loyal to the king or join the revolution. Dare I say, that today many of our military personnel know a fellow countrymen who has an arms cache to share. It would not be a complete insurrection, but the chess board would quickly and evenly split into the Rebels and the Tories. It would be very much like our first Civil War! | ||
| Aesquire |
As an aside, with no relation to this thread... ever see little colored, square signs by the side of the road? Not near anything, not at corners, just there? A bit less than a foot square? No markings at all. Ever notice sometimes there'd be 2 close together, always next to a large empty field? Sometimes, you see one with a corner clipped off, then not see them on that road anymore? Military & LE route markers. The clipped corner shows to turn at the next intersection, 2 together are a verified helicopter field. Learned this from a US Marshal, who told me the colors are used by local LEO to avoid calling street names when going out to bust pot farms, etc. Military uses them for convoy routing and can send different platoons on different back roads to avoid traffic jams and bunching. All perfectly innocent, of course. Just take a note of them next time you are out driving/riding. | ||
| Reindog |
Look who showed his pretty face immediately after my post. Quod erat demonstrandum. (Message edited by reindog on December 20, 2012) | ||
| Blake |
>>> I have seen many domestic threats posted on this website. People here see many domestic threats in our federal govt. Which threat is most serious? | ||
| Davegess |
You guys are worth a chuckle now and then  The paranoia around here is amusing. I'm gonna go read a bike magazine | ||
| Kenm123t |
Dave I wish I could introduce you to Barry Silver an old friend of mine . He passed away @ 81 he was the only member of his family to survive WW2. The rest of his family died in Dachau Barry survived because he ran and being so short the germans shot over his head. Barry told me his father and mother couldnt believe what was happening or that it could get worse his parents and 2 sisters died. He told me never ignore evil or under estimate dangerous men. Read the JFPO site then reconsider your postion Goebbels was in charge of Jewish healthcare! | ||
| Aesquire |
Fahren, thank you for that post. "This fear is what's given us the reason to do this. Once I have stats and people saying they're scared, we can do this," he said. "It allows us to do what we're fixing to do." This is the classic rationalization for dictatorship. It is what is desired by evil men to take power "to restore order". Good men can be seduced by the desire to fix problems with simple answers. So someone, some group of people, complained about a problem, and the simple answer is to be heavy handed and "take back the night". The real answer takes too much time, and some of the responsibility has to be on the citizens. Often, there are too few citizens, and too many subjects in such areas, and the Wolves run free. The Mayor telling the folk to grow up and be responsible for your rotten children is NOT getting him elected again, so HE's not going to even try real long term solutions to a crap 'hood. On a different thread, much has been said about "arming teachers" to make schools safer. The problem is that many teachers are not mentally or emotionally prepared to BE the sheepdogs and guard their flock. Simply giving a shotgun to everyone in a crime ridden area is such a bad idea it boggles. Taking everyones weapons in a crime ridden area is equally bad. Having "swat equipped" cops walking the streets to stop crime is just asking for a killing the same as just handing out shotguns to everyone. Or taking them all away. Blake. My answer should be obvious. On the one hand you have individuals with no intent whatsoever to harm another, who say they will resist unlawful assaults upon their community and themselves. They might have a rifle. On the Other you have people who claim the power to imprison without trial, and murder, at will those they and they alone deem as threats. They have and shown a willingness to use, repeatedly, very sophisticated weapons of war including tanks, fighter bombers, remote control missile equipped drones, and full surveillance of phones, internet use, and see though walls spectrum cameras. On Americans. ( for our own good, of course ) Me, I'm a peaceful guy. I'd be very reluctant to dispute minor matters of law with law enforcement personnel. It is not the policeman's fault that the leadership is doing something foolish, or wrong. Hopefully the Courts will see the errors that happen and fix the situation. ( and I have this natural viagra for sale that will make you happier, and your significant other very proud of you.... ) |
