| Author | Message | ||
     99savage |
Union_man My point was... Soon after Chic fil A's sandwich sales tanked, Dan Cathy set aside his religious beliefs and his morals, in an attempt to save his profits! You have any evidence for ANY of the above? Honest question, have not seen any sales data & too lazy to look up their D&B. About all that I know is some degenerate in Chicago claims to be in possession of a letter from somebody @ whatever the company in question is, saying that they were going to be good boys & stop thinking outside party lines. As for me it is all pretty academic; - For a mixture of hygiene & humanitarian reasons rarely eat chicken not raised by people I know. - Am > 200 miles from the nearest franchise. In general, I follow the lead of Samuel Gompers & "Reward my friends and punish my enemies" If Chick-a whatever sticks to their principals I will ignore my aversion to chicken & patronize them when passing by. - If they bow to pressure will make a point of avoiding them. A few institutions I avoid on general principal. Lowes & Target don't allow Salvation Army bell ringers on their property so I shop local hardware store & Wally-World. And oh yeh, the local liquor store, trying to forget all the my little friends on the Left are putting me thru and remember the good-old-days when I could just participate in civic life without thinking of "friends" and "enemies". | ||
| Aesquire |
Without Enemies, how can the Inner Party keep control? If Not Eurasia, then Eastasia. They cannot admit the war is with us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four Really, if you haven't read this, or at least seen the movie, how can you discuss anything political? I'd throw in the Federalist papers and at least a skin of Marx's Capital, or at least the Communist Manifesto. For Americans, Rules For Radicals by Alinsky is a must, since it is the basis of todays political equation. I assure you Alinsky is a better writer than Marx, but not as good as Hamilton or Jefferson, IMHO. Marx is a tedious bore at times... Alinsky explains the methods but not so much the origin of the Progressives. Illuminating. Hillary's thesis is on Alinsky. Barack's mentors at college and Chicago were disciples.. In the end Heinlein has it the closest to Truth. "Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/robert _a_heinlein.html#VliVsBO1USpWJ5lz.99 | ||
| Rick_a |
I'm not implying anything...just read the thread in it's entirety. There were references to "fixing" gays medically or through therapy, eliminating the gay gene, etc. I'm not gay. As far as I'm concerned it's none of my business, but, just as your assertion, there is just a bit of WTF. | ||
| Sifo |
There were references to "fixing" gays medically or through therapy, eliminating the gay gene, etc. Rick_a, PLEASE pull some quotes that you feel are offensive. I would like to see them in their context. I'm pretty sure you will find there is no implication for "forced fixing". Just investigating the possibility for a workable therapy for those who would choose to take that route. This is the same misrepresentation that RBJ repeatedly made. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Why people get upset when folks talk about curing homosexuality is beyond me. If it is a physical condition brought about by a hormone imbalance, or other factors, why is there any more aversion to helping the victims of this condition than there is curing any other disease? and I have to agree 100% with Hootowl on the cure thing. are from the first page of this thread. Replace "homosexuality" with "race", "gender", "spirituality", "Semitism", "radicalism" or any other pejorative term you choose and see if that makes the statement any less offensive. To continue to claim misrepresentation of your supposition that homosexuality is a disease that should have a cure is fatuous. I can provide more examples if you'd like- the words are right here in front of everybody to read. To feign surprise that the statements you have made here are found offensive is intellectually dishonest. Again, Sifo, you and I both know exactly what you are doing, and it's a lamentable use of an obviously intelligent mind. | ||
| Union_man |
Redbuelljunkie  You sliced right through it!!! | ||
| Sifo |
Replace "homosexuality" with "race", "gender", "spirituality", "Semitism", "radicalism" or any other pejorative term you choose and see if that makes the statement any less offensive. To continue to claim misrepresentation of your supposition that homosexuality is a disease that should have a cure is fatuous. I can provide more examples if you'd like- the words are right here in front of everybody to read. To feign surprise that the statements you have made here are found offensive is intellectually dishonest. Again, Sifo, you and I both know exactly what you are doing, and it's a lamentable use of an obviously intelligent mind. Great examples. Lets look at them one by one. Race. There are people who have altered their appearance, or just made the claim to be of a race that they are not. They have done so of their own free will. Gender. There are people who have altered their sex. They have done so of their own free will. Spirituality. People alter their spirituality all the time. They have done so of their own free will. Semitism. This would fall under either race or spirituality depending on how it's intended. Radicalism. Not sure what you mean by that, but people are free to do as they wish. Homosexuality. I have pointed out, backed with news links where people are seeking therapy to change their homosexuality. THEY HAVE DONE SO OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL. All I'm saying is that they should have access to therapy that is more effective. That requires the issue to be studied. You seem to see this as some sort of hate crime. One more time. Where is anyone saying this should be imposed on anyone against their will? | ||
| Aesquire |
So we have established that some homosexuals, of their own free will, want to ( or are pressured to.... Mom's are Powerful ) be "cured" of what some consider a disease. I'd be careful on that disease thing since some consider pregnancy a disease. I personally consider idiocy one. Not all idiots are idiots by choice, some, however, are. Perhaps someday we will find a gay gene complex. ( One I am certain I do not have. I'm missing the good taste in clothes and decor that Must be part of it. I've seen Queer Eye. ) When we have the capacity to chose our offspring from the available gametes, ( picking and choosing cells to join to make a child.... assuming that reading the code on a gamete does not destroy it in the 21st century ) we will than have 2 ethical issues. is it moral to pick the sex, eye color, intellect, ability to make money in fashion, etc? And Will such things be mandatory? Will you be forbidden by law to create a medically "flawed" child? ( the current trend in socialized medicine says YES. Leading to the age old Eugenics question, "who decides who lives and dies?" ) Will you be forbidden to create a gay child? Will Male gays be outlawed, and Lesbians not? Will selecting for the ( hypothetical ) gay genes be permitted? Required? Now anecdotal evidence show that a large number of males are situational bi's. Prisons, military, Arab influenced cultures, all have a time and place to make Homosex acceptable. One of the reasons that the rate of HIV is so high in the African American demographic is the "not gay! What happens in prison doesn't count!" factor spreads the disease to the hetero population. With girls it is a whole different set of factors. Just for example the LUG phenom, ( lesbian until graduation ) which makes perfect sense to a young woman wishing to do well in school without the distraction of a male relationship and the possibility of pregnancy before she feels she's ready. After graduation, Lugs tend to marry up and become moms. ( I've seen this phenom, repeatedly ) My opinion is that some gays are by choice, some from nature, and some by nurture. Although "nurture" in this case include molestation... so perhaps a less happy word is appropriate. | ||
| 99savage |
Aesquire Without Enemies, how can the Inner Party keep control? If Not Eurasia, then Eastasia. They cannot admit the war is with us. Really, if you haven't read this, or at least seen the movie, how can you discuss anything political? I'd throw in the Federalist papers and at least a skin of Marx's Capital, or at least the Communist Manifesto. For Americans, Rules For Radicals by Alinsky is a must, since it is the basis of todays political equation. I assure you Alinsky is a better writer than Marx, but not as good as Hamilton or Jefferson, IMHO. Marx is a tedious bore at times... Alinsky explains the methods but not so much the origin of the Progressives. Illuminating. Hillary's thesis is on Alinsky. Barack's mentors at college and Chicago were disciples.. In the end Heinlein has it the closest to Truth. "Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." Read most of what you mention, some of it very early in life. Never finished the "Federalist Papers" or Das Kapital & only read one of Heinlein's books, tho his dictum on "the ethics of the lifeboat" does linger. Surprised you did not mention de Tocqueville, not a complicated volume but makes clear that only a virtuous people can be a self governing people. Absent virtue only authority or chaos remain (he did not say that, I did) Read Alinsky back in H.S., important to remember that he had less faith in government than the John Birch Society did. - Wanted the interaction directly between the principals, sadly the principals discovered they were mobile. - The stockyard workers ended up in the suburbs & the stockyards in Iowa (staffed by immigrants but still miserable places) No intention of reading him again but if anybody knows some Cliff Notes I am all in. Personally I always divided humanity into those who want to control people, those willing to exchange autonomy for security & the outriders. - The Masters, The Serfs & The Barbarians - Sadly I think the Serfs have gained numerical control. - This election should be 80/20 Romney. (Message edited by 99Savage on September 25, 2012) | ||
| Boltrider |
A friend of mine had triplets - all boys. The mother REALLY wanted a girl after that, so they paid a doctor and now they have three boys and a girl. I don't know what the procedure was called but it wasn't cheap. It was tens of thousands of dollars IIRC. | ||
| Aesquire |
That procedure should be much cheaper now. There are quantum issues with reading DNA and leaving it intact, I suspect we can solve those, and computers are getting faster, so it may be in the next few years that you can chose eye color ( for example ) for about that same $10k. ( I'd bet we can, but not a lot of money ) 99, de Tocqueville is a good one, thank you. Alinsky, though my copy is long since loaned and lost, may end up being the most influential political author in America in teh 20th century. He's also dishonest, evil, and dead freaking wrong about some things, but so was Mao. His book "sold" billions. I skipped Mao and Sun Tsu, along with a lot of other warnings about the way things could go. Distopian literature ranges from great to crap. I liked "Walden 2" and "Brave New World" for the human manipulation aspects. I'm also a big fan of Mack Reynolds for economic science fiction. ( a tiny subset of a much larger genre ) Actually, "Walden 2" with it's focus on behavioral psych, and "Brave New World" with it's genetic/behavioral themes, are pretty relevant to this thread. I don't insist you read then before thinking about the subject. "1984" OTOH is a must read/watch as is "Animal Farm" ( I liked the cartoon! ) for any one arguing for or against centralized all powerful authority. Otherwise, you are just going to a gun fight with a stick. Pencil sized. ( insert dick joke here ) | ||
| Rick_a |
While I would love to satisfy the request, I am personally not offended by anything that happens on a discussion forum... | ||
| Hootowl |
"I'm not implying anything...just read the thread in it's entirety. There were references to "fixing" gays medically or through therapy, eliminating the gay gene, etc." You said "Final Solution". That has a very specific historical connection to Hitler and his quest to rid the world of Jews. So, again, no one has made any mention of rounding up gays. Except you. You folks need to take off your "spew hate" tinted glasses. You're seeing things that don't exist. | ||
| Sifo |
It matters not how many times you clearly explain things. Some are just intent on inserting hate into the statements of those with whom they disagree. For the life of me, I don't see why it would be hateful to provide a medical solution that would change a persons sexual attraction, but it's just fine to provide a medical solution to change a person's sex. Anyone care to explain that one to me? | ||
| Hootowl |
"Prisons, military, Arab influenced cultures" Two out of three isn't bad. I was in for 12 years, over half that time was spent on ships. I know of, nor heard of, ANY instances of 'situational' homosexual acts. It isn't culturally acceptable in the military. There are gays in the military, but their sex acts are not 'situational' homosexual acts that are somehow deemed acceptable to normally heterosexual men, as long as you're on a deployment. I guess YMMV. I'm glad I wasn't on your ship  | ||
| Kenm123t |
Sifo Hoot your being played to illustrate your ( Intolerance) . The gay fanboys just came looking for a fight and you two are providing an outlet for them. Carry on guys! | ||
| Hootowl |
Intolerance? I do tolerate homosexuality. I haven't killed anyone, or attempted to make certain behaviors or feelings illegal. I don't approve, but that's why we use the word 'tolerate'. Iran doesn't tolerate homosexuals. Heck, they don't have any. That they do not consider having sex with a small boy to be a homosexual act is a bit perplexing, but hey, if anal rape of a child is your country's thing, who am I to question it? | ||
| Aesquire |
Hootowl, I'll retract the military if We are discussing the US military. Spartan Sacred Bands don't really apply anymore, and that was culturally acceptable, not an exception to be ignored like prison. Other countries, other customs, so I withdraw the "military". How 'bout we toss in "Boarding school"? | ||
| Hootowl |
I'm afraid I can't speak to that. I grew up poor, and just non-annoying enough to avoid being shipped off. Poverty has its perks. Who knew? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
spent a very enlightening and frightening week off line. General consensus is that we are by in largely admit that we have free will.... but the 'responsibility' for those choices dwindle quickly, rapidly, and categorically. We will parse it out to biology, society, nationality, culture, faith, family, or location - ultimately the section of the pie that we are 'responsible' for is so infintesimal that if we ate in those proportions - well we would be much thinner as a nation. So in addition to not being responsible to your own noodle who you noodle (hetro, homo, bi, multiple) how often you noodle (promoscuity) context of noodle (coercion - rape; for the perpetrator, obviously not the victim) age (pedo) relation (incest) perversion of noodle (B&D, S&M, vampire, alien - etc) Nor are you responsible for Your obesity Your murderous tendencies Your drug/alcohol proclivities Your abuse pathologies Your financial success v failure Your gambling we are simply animals rutting ourselves out in the field with no more determination or power over our actions than stimulus response. I have long known the government considered us livestock - but I had not the intonation that people would so quickly shirk what is a 'choice' of their own actions and pin the resultant elsewhere Note to self; stay away from MSW health care 'reform' conferences. (and yes, clinical Rx / Therapy 'cures' for criminal activity are indeed in that new bill - and the MSW's are all too drooling to the prospects of 'cures') yes komrade - you will be re-educated. PS - I don't care to what your inclination is - nowhere does my idea of choice preclude your ability to make that choice. though I have been mobilized to several ethnic European 'clensings' that was not the case | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
wow | ||
| Cityxslicker |
"When the information rolls in about the gunman and his connection to mental illness, I prepare myself for what comes next, for it’s not the temperature the collective majority will be feeling. It’s not a fevered pitch for gun control, the death penalty, for laws to be changed or names to be blamed. I feel empathy for the gunman. A sorrowful compassion. A melancholy that comes from a knowing first-hand experience how one’s mind has left reality not by choice, but by circumstance. I mourn that his illness wasn’t seen" http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/10/gun-violence-m ental-illness-feel-sympathy-devil.html yep - not to blame - it must be society, family, prenatal care - yadda yadda yadda and we must identify, treat, medicate, and put in therapy; best from an early age to solve it. *anything but personal responsibility for individual actions. .... Hell blame TWINKIES. Watch next week for when carnivors are labelled a mental illness and treatment must be vigilent. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
And so it begins. Hello Resilience - you are right on time. "Some 90 percent of us will experience at least one traumatic event during our lives, and no two of us will react or recover (if at all) in the same way" Ie we are all crazy and just one stimulus response stressor from creating havok.... But ....."Using imaging technology, scientists have found that when a role model performs a positive behavior, both the observer and the role model experience activity in the same region of the brain. Studies along these lines point to the possibility of mirror neurons that help facilitate social interactions by promoting shared understanding. Our brains are “turned on” by behaviors we deem __________" yes Komrade - you will be reeducated. 'Society' depends upon it. http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/10/resilience-cri tical-healthy-life.html | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Is that anything like an amputee that is having ghost pains in missing arm and when they use a mirror so patient now sees two arms again the pain goes away? | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
This must have been what is was like 500 years ago for mentally retarded people. JFK's sister actually was institutionalized after her father had an experimental surgery done to her brain in hopes it would make her "normal". Or maybe it was shock theropy? | ||
| Darth_villar |
Shock therapy is an extreme treatment, but has been known to work in very specialized cases. | ||
| 86129squids |
Is Chick-Fil-A edible? | ||
| Sifo |
This must have been what is was like 500 years ago for mentally retarded people. JFK's sister actually was institutionalized after her father had an experimental surgery done to her brain in hopes it would make her "normal". Or maybe it was shock theropy? Interesting point Johnny. I can't claim to be familiar with JFK's sister's case. That was what, probably 70-80 years ago? Think we've learned anything since then? One thing we have learned is to not lump them all into a "retarded" category. We have advanced to actually diagnosing a wide variety of illnesses that used to be categorized as retarded. Identification of the problem is a good first step. From there we have learned that many of these illnesses can be treated in a variety of ways. Some with counseling. Some with drug therapy. Some ironically enough, heavily promoted by the progressives, with abortion. This has been pushed to the point of a recent VP candidate actually being chastised for choosing to not abort a baby with Downs Syndrome. Now if progressives wanted to be the least bit consistent... Maybe we shouldn't go down that road just yet? The point here being, there are actually therapies that have proven beneficial. Many of these kids that used to simply be institutionalized and hidden from society, now are able to transition into people who can manage to take care of themselves. Progress on this doesn't happen by ignoring the issue, or by just accepting it as "normal" when it isn't. Progress happens by honestly examining what actually causes this. It's a shame that there are some issues that people say you would never want to have to deal with, but we shun the very thought that there just might be something that can be done to provide some sort of therapy. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
The new DSM is out, and if you read it long enough - you will find it is general enough in scope that .... well we are all crazy now, and indeed need therapy and drug medications. docile, drugged, droned. for example; from Web Md. Asperger's syndrome (individuals) are able to make and keep a few close friends through the school years. Some of the classic Asperger's traits may also work to the benefit of your teen. Teens with Asperger's are typically uninterested in following social norms, fads, or conventional thinking, allowing creative thinking and the pursuit of original interests and goals. Their preference for rules and honesty may lead them to excel in the classroom and as citizens. remember Komrade - no matter your illness; priority one is to first be a citizen of the Proletariat. pick a page, if you are hypochondriac enough, you will find - you too are crazy, affected, or dysfunctional. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I ate CFA yesterday. Dont care what his (or anyones) religious views are. Dont care if he supports gay marriage or not. All I care about, and the only thing ANY OF US should care about - is how damn good that chicken is. Unless youre a stockholder, owner, employee etc, youre wasting your time fretting over his views |
