| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
The biggest problem, as far as I can tell, with the Chevy Volt, is the politics. The nice folk at PJTV have an editorial titled, "Electric Shock: Is GM Really Losing $49,000 on Every Chevy Volt?" It's right wing, opinionated, and IMHO does have a few righteous points... Here's a link. http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=56&load=7442 I thought the line about owning the means of production accurate, biting, and thought provoking... But the politics isn't the Thrust of my question here... If You could rent one of these marvels of transportation for $199 a month, would you? Fires. Never mind the fires in cars that were crash tested. The First Responders of America, ( and the planet ) are going to have to learn how to deal with electric cars. In fact, for the most part, even the smallest of small town volunteer fire fighter and rescue crew personnel know very well where to find the off switch. When you come upon a crashed car, and start to tear it apart to pull out the crashees, the first thing you do is check for hazards. That includes checking for That tragic gas leak that leads to tv show drama. Somebody, I assure you, will notice it's an electric car and deal with it. Expect Impound yards to be aware of a fire hazard as well, I understand the car that spontaneously combusted had been wrecked, data taken, then dumped outside... So forget about that. Fire is not an issue... not any more than a gas powered car... which come to think of it, the Volt is, too. Hybrid? Electric? It seems the first year Volt is programed to be an electric car that does not recharge the main battery with the engine. This seems to be a marketing decision. That moves the Volt into a different category than a Toyota Prius. There is also a political component with an attempt to make the Volt a success, and to market the Volt as a "greener than thou" vehicle... IMHO this compromises the Volt's performance as a car. I understand "not being in direct competition" with the Prius, from a marketing viewpoint, but we don't actually know how efficient GM has been able to make a power train. ( the gearhead in me wants to know ) But you can't compare mileage numbers, it's too situational dependent. It MAY be better to wait for a second or third gen Volt, because it should be a much "better" car by all logic... BUT The most collectible of toys is that first year that had quirks.... The coolest cars and bikes ( see EBR1190RS for example ) often are short lived and the original limited production toys are sometimes never equaled. Right now I have another couple of years of car payments, so I can't afford to right now, but renting a Volt, if it's a sweet enough deal, might be a good idea? Your Thoughts? | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Not economical considering the battery life and cost to replace. We need cut or cripple the epa and get some diesels in America. What mpg are euro diesels getting these days? | ||
| Old_guy |
70-85 mpg, for the compact car diesels. | ||
| Old_guy |
You can get a full sized, diesel, Jaguar with a twin turbo V8 that gets close to 50 mpg. And the biggest problem with the hybrid and electric cars is the battery manufacture and disposal. The hazardous waste created in the manufacture is far more dangerous to the planet over the lifetime of the car than an internal combustion vehicle, at this moment in time. (Message edited by old_guy on September 14, 2012) | ||
| Aesquire |
Don't know current Euro spec on pollution or crash specs. I Expect an American sold model to get slightly worse MPG, as I think we run heavier, but Europe may have "caught up" or have a matching spec this year. My '09 VW TDI gets 40mpg at 70mph. Real world expect 38mpg mixed, up to 42+ for an expressway cruiser. Fairly close to EPA numbers, to my surprise. It may be a valid standard. They are claiming a few mpg better for the 2013's. As to your concerns about the Volt.. As a rental, battery life isn't an issue. That factor may be overblown, if you keep a car less than a decade, my Dad's on his second Prius and didn't kill the battery in his. ( though he did kill the one in the Odyssey by letting it drain to death with the computer on standby... Now he has a tender... ) | ||
| Aesquire |
By all means let us explore the mileage alternatives. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
I'd pass as rental because I don't want to be identified in any similarity to some of the characters in their commercials. Its obvious who they are marketing to and its not blue color people like me. | ||
| 6gears |
When they build some sort of hybrid that will pull my backhoe on a 30' gooseneck trailer and get better mileage than my duramax doing it, I will be interested. I do REALLY wish that the carmakers would wise up and focus on diesel... | ||
| 46champ |
6gears you can thank California for that as long as they are able to dictate pollution standards you will never see small diesels in this country. | ||
| Ulyranger |
Diesel is an evil word in this Green PC obsessed country.....  | ||
| Pwnzor |
I'm not technically allowed to throw AA batteries in my trash can. What am I supposed to do with a 1500 pound battery pack when it dies? | ||
| Blake |
Every time I hit the brakes on the Superduty, I think how nice a regenerative braking system would be. Putting the whoa on 3+ tons takes a lot of energy. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Well Blake my boy you should be driving in such a fashion as to not have to be standing on the brakes so much. Lift off before the crest of a hill & coast over the top on momentum, change down to use the engine braking on down-grades, smooth is economical. Keep it in the green on the rev counter. | ||
| Ducbsa |
I love those coal-powered plug-in cars!! Except when they are nuclear powered, but that is good, too. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Grumpy Blake is in Texas its probably closer for you to drive to the north of England than it is for Blake to hit the Grocer. Blakes normal cruise is most likely 40mph higher than your Max speed lol | ||
| 6gears |
I agree 46champ... and as much as it kills me to say it, GM REALLY did not help the diesel market with all the crap they tried to market in the 80s. Their 350 diesels were...umm...crap and really left a lasting (bad) impression on consumers. I would KILL for a Nissan or Toyota crew cab super-short bed with a 2.4L DI diesel and 4x4 like they have overseas. 35+ MPG and some functionality also. | ||
| Aesquire |
Pwnzor, if it's a rental, you don't care where the battery goes, and if you BUY one, you just have to either trade in before it dies, or have the dealer deal with it. No doubt with a service charge like old tires & lead acid batteries. I loved the Top Gear where they tried to kill a Toyota Diesel Pickup. Including letting it wash out to sea, and throwing a torch in the window. .... It's on display in the studio. I'm not sure how far you want to relax pollution standards to get little diesel cars. The "blue diesel" derived VW, Audi, and Mercedes practically clean the air they drive through. ( On a bad day in LA, they actually do! ) Mercedes, and many trucks and Buses, use a urea based fluid to kill the fine particulate in the exhaust. in a Merc, your dealer will fill the tank when you bring it in for scheduled service. The car will order you to do so, and punish you if you don't... But hey, It's a Mercedes owner, they Will Obey. VW, on the other hand, KNOWS it's owners are rapscallions that change their own oil, install chips, and would rather buy a reset tool than obey the computer. So the VW has an afterburner in the system that periodically burns off the soot. no special fluid needed. Both burn clean as all get out. The current US spec might be overkill, but I wouldn't want to go too dirty. The other problem is one of fuel availability... Not that you can't get diesel, but the US system simply can't instantly change the balance of fuels in the transportation mix. If you want more electric cars, you HAVE to have more power plants. That is NOT the current trend, due to "green" factors.... If you want more diesels, you may have to build new refineries to change the gasoline/diesel production ratio. Europe uses a different cracking system, so they make a higher percentage of diesel per unit of crude. But that's a bigger view question than what car you buy. There certainly is room for some lunatics to own diesels or electrics without massive societal impact, other than good from our conservation of resources. At what point battery waste pollution is an issue I don't know. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Ken, I've been to Texas, I know how they drive there.  | ||
| Kenm123t |
Grumpy want to run a Ford Power Stroke on the Autobahn ? You will be suprised I have soon to be retired because the body is tired 95 7.3L 357rwhp 530 something torque I have run down a few Mitsuis and Nissan Zs with it lol. Only issue are the tires I wasted a set of Commercial T/As with 2k on them and complained to BFG the said hey these tires have been Oversped ! Speed rating wasnt up to speed i was driving. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Ken I'd love to. When we relocate next year I'll be looking for a diesel pickup, probably a pre-Ram Dodge 2500 with a Cummins, but I'd consider a Ford. Trouble is I know jack about Ford V8 diesels & I'm a bit hesitant on GM since owning a Delta 88 Royale with a 350 diesel (what a pos). Whereas I've had Dodges for nearly 30 years & driven plenty of Cummins powered stuff. | ||
| 6gears |
Mr Grumpy... I am not knocking Dodge, but take the time to drive a Duramax. | ||
| 6gears |
Mr Grumpy... I am not knocking Dodge, but take the time to drive a Duramax. | ||
| Aesquire |
The bad GM diesels from yesterday. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Diesel_V6_ engine The previous gen of Ford diesels also had reliability issues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Power_Stroke_eng ine http://ford60problems.blogspot.com/ I am unaware of any real problems with the Dodge Cummings. When it first came out we had one at Legendary Auto that was a wonder for towing a 40ft race trailer packed to the gills. The Cummings didn't really seem to care if it was hauling or not. The current gens from Ford and GM have more power, I think, but all are supposed to be decent, well sorted out engines. I have been seriously considering a Diesel Van. This seems to restrict me to fairly rare Ford models, but lucky for me there is a dealer specializing in used ones south of Syracuse. ( I do have to wait until I've paid off the current car loan ) Why a Diesel Van? I live in rainy country, and a pickup, while versatile and useful, isn't as good for the stuff I really use a truck for. The Diesel option gives me uber-power with rational mileage, not an option in a Van with gasoline burner. Is it Worth the initial cost, even used, over the life of( your ownership of ) the vehicle? Will the mileage advantage pay off? These 2 questions MUST be considered for any alt-fuel purchase, including hybrids and propane cars.... In many cases, No, it doesn't make economic sense. In some cases the image or the need over ride that. "Greener than Thou" may be a marketing and political factor, but it's just like any other ego driven car choice. It's a choice. I'm all for having good choices. | ||
| Ulyranger |
I am not an engineer, but what if the Volt were an electric car with a small, efficient diesel generator for on the fly recharging? In the current form the volt is a huge disappointment, expensive one at that. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Grumpy the duramax is an isuzu product | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Keep in mind that when Europeans are quoting miles per gallon, the are usually referring to Imperial gallons, which are different than a US gallon, and the numbers may be higher than what we would calculate here in the US of A. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Europe = litres per 100km. USA = Miles per US gallon. Conversion coef to l/100km is 235.2 UK & Ireland = Miles per Imp Gal. conversion coef 282.5 If you want to convert you take the "Magic number" & divide it by whichever you have mpg or l/100km to find the other one. Example, my diesel Alfa with its 2.4 jtdm 5 banger kicks out 175 hosses & gets around 6l/100km. So 235.2 / 6 = 39.2 mpg (us) As regards trucks, the Cummins has parts availability here, & an early 90s model, while not being the most economical, is bullet proof & all mechanical. So it'll see me out & run on any old fuel I can lay hold of. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Grumpy I have a fleet of 7.3 ford power stroke vans. We rebuild the rest of the truck around the drive train Im looking for a e350 super duty to change the drive train over too. The van in question is a 94 purchase 95 model. Cant beat them only problems we have ever had are plastic parts and hoses. The drive train has 500k on it and its worth rebuilding. My personal 99 is waiting on pick up at the body shop new paint interior and any thing else that was needed. When you tow resist the burn outs if you do the output planetary cluster will fail. Rebuild it with steel one from old C6 Tranny new one is aluminum Chip the ecm and you will never drive any thing else. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If you plan on an econoline, I suggest you get one this year as I heard that they are not making them anymore! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Nevermind. I just looked at the site and they don't offer diesel engines anymore I guess. |
