| Author | Message | ||
     Fb1 |
(Message edited by fb1 on August 31, 2012) | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Jeremy, I replied to the rest on FB. Not interested in carrying on the same conversation twice. I'll just respond to this unique tidbit here: "Did you know that Ron Paul willfully allowed his followers to attack his son?" So Ron Paul dictates how his supporters comment on a Facebook page? Give me a break. The Ron Paul supporters are wrong for jumping all over Rand like they have been doing. The nomination process is over, Romney is the candidate, period. There's no reason Rand shouldn't endorse Romney. With his father no longer being an option, it shows no disrespect in my eyes to support the current Republican candidate. As for the "family feud" implication that so many are trying to make, the rest of my family were Santorum supporters before the primary. Ever since the primary, they've been Romney supporters. I've been supporting Paul all along (as well as Romney once it was obvious that he would get the nomination) So although it's obviously not on a public stage for anyone to give a s*** about, I've had an abundance of arguments with my own immediate family over who they support for President. Who cares? It's not disrespectful, it's productive. Anyone who casts an uninformed vote based on who their family likes or who wears the label of a particular party is a fool and is the very reason that democracy is so scary. | ||
| Chauly |
Is This Good Enough? Obama's Politics of Resignation by Robert Tracinski Editor's Note: Later today I plan to send out an overview of last night's speeches at the Republican Convention, but in the meantime, here is a speech I just gave about an hour ago at the Jefferson Area Tea Party's "Oust Obama" rally in Charlottesville—our way of welcoming President Obama to our town. Incidentally, for anyone who is disappointed that this speech makes no reference to Ayn Rand or Atlas Shrugged (as my Tea Party speeches often do) don't worry. The speaker before me, a local Republican Party chairman, had that angle covered. Such is the intellectual impetus of the Tea Party movement.—RWT I could get up here and talk about economics or history or political science, and I will do a little bit of all of those. But first I'm going to boil everything down to one simple question. Is this good enough? Is this economy, Obama's economy, good enough? Is the state of the country, the spirit of the country, good enough? Is America power and stature in the world good enough? [Note: Every time in this speech that I ask "Is this good enough," I was eliciting—and got—a loud "No!"] Or: can we do better? Do you deserve better, do we deserve better, does America deserve better? Underneath all of the important ideological issues, this election is fundamentally a basic choice about the American spirit, about our sense of what is possible to us in life. I say this because, in asking you to re-elect him, Barack Obama is asking you to settle for this, for his stagnant economy. His policies didn't turn around the economy, they stifled the recovery. So now he's telling us that it's not his fault, it's just the "new normal." He said recently that it's normal that after a financial crisis like we had in 2008, that the economy will take ten years to bounce back. Ten years! It's less than five years since the financial crisis, so that means we're not even halfway through. And notice something else: Obama has now given up even promising that the economy will recover during his second term. This is just as good as it gets and we're supposed to accept it. Do you think this is good enough? Let's think a little bit more about what this new Obama normal is. I was listening to the radio this morning on the way into town, and the news was that economists had upgraded the figure for economic growth this Spring, for the second quarter of the year. They upgraded it from a 1.5% rate all the way up to 1.7%. I feel better now, don't you? Is that good enough? Let's put that 1.7% into perspective. They've changed the way they calculate inflation these days, so they don't put much weight on food and fuel—which of course are how most of us have actually experienced rising prices recently. So there's a good chance that real inflation is above the official levels, and that it is higher than 1.7%. So the chances are we're not in a slow-growth economy, we're in a no-growth economy. Is that good enough? It gets worse if you look at income. Another new report—and this didn't get the press it really deserves—said that the average American's income declined by more than 4% during the recovery. To put that in perspective, income only declined by about two and half percent during the recession. So we're worse off after three years of so-called recovery than we were at the bottom of the recession. Does that sound like a recovery to you? Is that good enough? This is a so-called recovery in which we have more people on food stamps than ever before, in which Social Security disability has doubled. It's not because we have more disabled people, it's because we have more people who are using that system to get a government check for the rest of their lives because they can't get a job. Is that kind of society, a society of dependence on government, is that good enough? Now let's a little bit more perspective. The average growth rate of the American economy since World War II has been a little over three and a half percent—more than twice the growth rate of this so-called recovery. And longer term, if you go back to the founding of this country, the real "normal" rate of growth has been 4% or above. And that's what we're going to need if we're ever going to grow out of the debt we have, or have any hope of even partially meeting all of the entitlement obligations our government has taken on. You know, as an individual, this is easy to grasp. The easiest way to get out of debt is if your income is growing. Let's say you're a young Obama voter, and you graduate from college with big student loans. Now let's say you have a degree in a field with no real economic value, like I did. I have a degree in philosophy, which these days maybe qualifies you for a job making coffee at Starbucks. And with that income, you're going to have a big problem paying for your loans. Now let's say you get a degree in a useful field—maybe engineering or business—or maybe you're just resourceful and entrepreneurial, like I was, and you work hard to build a business and make something of yourself, and every year you get more experience, more skills, and rise to a higher position and your income keeps going up. Then your debt is not so big a burden because know you're going to be able to grow your way out of that debt. But as a country, we're not on that path. We're on the same path as a lot of European countries. They adopted the same policies that Obama has brought here—strangling regulations and bloated welfare states—and they got the same results: stagnant economic growth, permanent high unemployment, and a debt that keeps rising and rising. And rather than turn back from that path, they just kept going until it finally became obvious that without real economic growth, they are never going to be able to pay back their debts. That's what we see all across Europe now. That's the end of our line. Is that good enough? No, it's not good enough. It's not good enough, has never been good enough, for America. This has always been a country that believes in achievement, that believes in independence, that believes you can shape your own destiny—that you do not have to resign yourself to stagnation. You know, the Obama campaign and the mainstream media still don't get why it was such a disaster when President Obama said "you didn't build that." They don't get it because they don't grasp how deeply it goes against the grain of the American character. We are people who do build that. We don't resign ourselves to stagnation, we take the responsibility of providing for ourselves and lifting ourselves up. But that's not Obama's vision. In his nation of people who didn't build that, no one can do anything unless he sits and waits for government help. Did anyone else see this feature on the campaign website for Obama, the life of Julia? It's a history of a fictional woman, where all of the milestones in her life are not about what she does for herself, they're about how the government helps her. That's Obama's view of life. Is that good enough? But this isn't really about Obama. It's about us. It's about what we expect of this country and of ourselves. If believe we do build that, then we will demand the freedom to build it, which means the ability to make our own decisions, direct our own actions, bear the costs of our failures, and enjoy the rewards of our success. There is a connection between freedom and the restless ambition characteristic of the American. But to pursue those political aims, we must have, to support them, a belief in America's greatness and potential and a belief in our own potential for individual achievement. Carole mentioned earlier [in the rally] that Mitt Romney was not the first choice for many of us. I actually remember saying in the primaries that my position was "anybody but Romney." But I also said at the time that when the primaries were over, "anybody but Romney" would be trumped by "anybody but Obama." And as he has become the nominee, I have come to like Mitt Romney better. I have come to like him because, despite various ideological disagreements, he comes down on the right side on the most basic issue of all. He believes in achievement, and he believes in America's greatness. The current situation, America as it is under Obama, is definitely not good enough. We expect better, we demand better, and in November we will go out and get it. | ||
| Hootowl |
Can you provide a link to the above quote? I'd like to share it. | ||
| Chauly |
It's from a subscribed newsletter, so a link doesn't really exist. However, as long as it's attributed and pasted in it's entirety, that shouldn't be a problem. Although, I'm sure Robert would prefer to sell subscriptions... :-) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
So Ron Paul dictates how his supporters comment on a Facebook page? Give me a break. The Ron Paul supporters are wrong for jumping all over Rand like they have been doing. The nomination process is over, Romney is the candidate, period. There's no reason Rand shouldn't endorse Romney. With his father no longer being an option, it shows no disrespect in my eyes to support the current Republican candidate. To not say a SINGLE word? Really? "Eric Elledge: DISGUSTING. Right before Father's Day too. What a piece of garbage Rand turned out to be. One & Done Senator!" "Mikey Indigo: Someone better have put a gun to your head, otherwise your father should disown you. Good luck sleeping at night knowing what you did to this country. I hope the price was worth it." "Jason Sauer: you have lost my support for being a TRATOR to your father." "Richie Proffitt: I guess the 30 minute meeting with Mittens was actually a 12 hour lobotomy. Maybe the whole zombies thing is to get us to fall in line and vote status quo. Meh." Ron Paul MUST agree with these statements about his son since he didn't bother to contravene them. These followers and the actions of Ron Paul is why he can't get more that 5% of the vote. | ||
| Fb1 |
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| Reindog |
Ferris, thanks for showing how to post Afterburners. The cliff is coming if we don't emulate Wisconsin and begin to admit and face our problems. Pie is good. Everybody loves pie. People vote to receive more pie and are happy....until the pie stops coming and your money becomes worthless. Drkside (and other Obama supporters): are you watching these insightful commentaries? Please comment so that we can respectfully attempt to understand one another. It is people like you who are key in solving America's problems. A vote from you to support the prevention of economic calamity is worth more than ten votes from me as I live in Kalifornia where it is already too late. Our plan is to raise taxes which will drive even more businesses away to friendlier states which will in turn, cause a call for even higher taxes. (Message edited by reindog on August 31, 2012) | ||
| Two_seasons |
Mitt Romney is an honorable man. So is Paul Ryan. When the RNC puppeteers change the committee rules so delegates don't have a voice, the conservative voices in the republican base lose! What I think PKForbes and Reindog are saying is we BadWebbers and conservatives know that there are those "behind the curtain" that are really pulling the strings, controlling the party and stifling the truth, who won't give an inch because they have the "we were here first" mentality and want to keep the power. Or, as Michelle Malkin says, the "Beltway Barnacles" are the RNC types in the slow lane alongside the DNC types in the fast lane, ignoring the ROAD CLOSED AHEAD signs, both parties driving the USA toward the fiscal cliff! The RNC, time and again (remember NY-23?), have squandered our voice and our money! Time to get honest and stay on message! | ||
| Oldog |
I watched the convention on C-Span, nice no talking heads and no commercials. I was left with a sense that Mitt Romney is the real deal, he is who he says he is. Both him and Ryan are intelligent and articulate. His experience and record show that he can work on a team and solve problems the jabs at the president were predictable. Not much slime last night, Clint was kinda strange but funny. I suspect that Mitt as about solutions, they will loose the lefty " BS - American idol" crap by trying to stick with the message and the solution. I'm all for it. I was concerned about voting Romney, WAS the more I learn the better I like Mitt, I will pull the lever for him, I won't have to hold my nose. They got it right last night. R&R = Real and Refreshing R&R = Repeal and Reform R&R = Re-unify And RE-Ignite R&R = Responsible & Ready My 0.02$ | ||
| Reindog |
No, I am saying that leadership matters. I have no idea if there is a "man behind the curtain" but I do know that an effective executive will inspire and cajole to successfully execute what they are hired to do. Politics is the art of achieving the possible and that means working with Congress. FDR had it. Reagan most certainly had it. Clinton had it. Obama does NOT have it. Romney definitely does have it. So does Ryan. Hell, Romney was governor of the Blue of Blueness. Obama won't even communicate effectively with his allies in Congress. It is sad and pathetic and we as a nation are worse for it. | ||
| Reindog |
Way to go, Oldog!!!! You are one of the reasons why I even bother posting political discourse on Badweb. Badweb is a rich opportunity to reach undecided voters who are awakening that Obama MUST be fired. Obama II will likely bankrupt the nation and there will be no time for motorcycling. | ||
| Fb1 |
The following piece on Breitbart.com was written two weeks ago today, but the words seem even more powerful to me now, in the afterglow of the RNC, than they did then. The DNC gets a chance to defend their record (and explain why they deserve a second chance) next week in Charlotte, and then let the battle for the presidency begin in earnest. In the meantime:
Read the rest of the article here: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/18 /The-Mantle-of-Leadership-Has-Shifted-Romney-Ryan- Govern-in-All-but-Name-Only (Message edited by fb1 on August 31, 2012) | ||
| Fb1 |
Ok, one more and then maybe I'll take the weekend off. Maybe. There are SO many good men and women in politics these days. Many never see the light of the news day, drowned out by what the Main Stream Media deems is actually news. That's a shame. We saw and heard many of the Republican party's brightest stars speak in Tampa this week. The overriding theme? Same as the Founders: Freedom. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The American dream. All we need are true leaders. Well, we've got a ton of them, actually. Two of them are asking for our support to become the next President and Vice-President of the United States of America. They have my vote, and my respect. I hope, when they are elected, they do their utmost to surround themselves with all the talent they can muster from the corps of conservative all-stars presently serving our nation. One such person is Congressman Artur Davis. I've posted-up several references to Mr. Davis of late. I'm impressed with his conservative political viewpoint, and equally impressed with his ability to articulate his political views so eloquently. So I was not surprised when I read the following, which I've lifted from his website for your consideration. These are powerful words, from a man who once used to be a staunch proponent and member of the Democratic party. This isn't idle rhetoric. This is, quite simply, profound.
Source: http://www.officialarturdavis.com/2012/08/the-ryan -downpayment/ | ||
| Oldog |
Rein- I was Right of center long before the convention. I was watching the senate and house on Cspan when the debit Sealing was about to be hit, and the house and senate were in session trying to get a some thing done, Repeatedly the Liberal dems especially a couple from CA were hand wringing and asking for money for various " treasures " and "important programs" the repubs responded politely and used illustrations that I can understand. I had confirmed much of what I thought may be the case. I try to listen much and process long and slow. But I had BHO-le's number before he aced Hillery out, A single parent who is subsisting cant afford a fine if they cant afford insurance.. AS I listened to that conman, I realized that he could not deliver the promises. I missed the dem conv the line about "now the seas will recede and the planet will heal" would have had me on the floor ..... | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Well at least we don't have to worry about another Reagan popping up in the Republican party. The information about the 1976 RNC may be old news to some of you, but I'm learning it for the first time and find it very intriguing. Reagan was just before my time, although my father served in WHCA under him. | ||
| Pabst |
Trying to put it succinctly, my 25 year old unemployed son is insured, and that is good. Obama means no harm. | ||
| Reindog |
That is wrong on so many levels. - Your son is an adult. - If he is financially troubled, then he has options such as: + Take a job "below his paygrade". + Get financial assistance from you, his mother. + Get financial assistance from charity. + Apply for welfare. | ||
| Strokizator |
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. So what happens next year when he's 26 and still unemployed? Not much of a reason to vote for BO. I think Romney touched on something last night. You've all heard the saying that the two best days in a boat owner's life is the day he buys it and the day he sells it. Well, the best day for an Obama supporter was the day they voted for him. It's been all downhill since then. The next "best day" is when he's voted out. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Our grandparents were married and gainfully employed by 18. By 25 they had a child or two of their own. If your child is unemployed at 25, that's on YOU. (Message edited by ft_bstrd on August 31, 2012) | ||
| Reindog |
Pabst: I am sure you are well meaning but you haven't yet seen the implications of your attitude. + ObamaPelosiCare steals from the older population to pay for your son. + The path of ObamaPelosiCare is one of bankruptcy. You might feel good about your son but have you considered the well being of your future grandchildren and great-grandchildren? +ObamaPelosiCare robs your liberty. You do know that the IRS has expanded its numbers for this? I was amazed to find out that IRS agents practice medicine. PS: Thank you for posting. Hopefully, I am conveying respect in my responses as that is my intent. We as a People, are not going to get anywhere without education and understanding. (Message edited by reindog on August 31, 2012) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Phillip, the difference between Reagan/Ford and Ron Paul/Every other candidate on the planet, is that the vote tally in 1976 was 1187 for Ford to 1070 for Reagan. Reagan was in a much stronger position to "broker" than Ron Paul is with 5.4% of the delegate count. At the time Ford entered the convention, he lacked the minimum vote count for a majority. Both Ford and Reagan vied for votes. In the end, Ford won the day and Reagan ceded victory. There is no clear winner. Regardless of what happened in 1976, Reagan was unstoppable in 1980. The main difference here is that both Ford and Reagan were playing with the delegates they won and working to win the votes of the delegates in the middle. Ron Paul's followers were gaming the system in order to create "stealth" Ron Paul delegates in an effort to undermine the legal vote of the citizens of the states the delegates came from (as they did in Minnesota and attempted to do in Idaho). In Minnesota, Rick Santorum received 45% of the vote, and won the state. Ron Paul received 17% of the vote. How exactly did Ron Paul end up with 32 of the 40 delegates? Ron Paul wins Minnesota Delegates 45% of the population DIDN'T vote for him. Are these delegates now a reflection of the wishes of the population of Minnesota? Not any more. What the rule change is meant to do is prevent a third party candidate from pilfering delegates from winners of primary races. Do you really want 40 people able to override the wishes of tens of thousands? Is that REALLY the intention of the primary process? I find it odd that Ron Paul's supporters complained so loudly about being disenfranchised when they were there by disenfranchising the primary voters of the states from which they came. Mitt Romney won Maine, Ron Paul stole 21 of the 23 delegates. I'd say the 9 delegates that were shown the door should have been. Ron Paul's supporters can claim the establishment is shutting them out, but there is quite a bit of shady activity going on with Ron Paul and his minions. | ||
| Aesquire |
the purpose of the affordable health care act is to destroy the existing system so a new one can be put in it's place. You don't have to believe ME. Just listen to the people who promoted it, and got it passes without, it seems anyone elected actually reading it. It's pretty obvious Obama didn't ever read it, since almost all of the lofty promises he made have nothing to do with the plan that was passed. ( to be fair, he talked on and on about "his" plan. Which no one on the planet has seen. It might have all the great stuff he talked about and be cheaper! Too bad it's filed with his college financial records, and the Ark of the Covenant. ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_bUKzONy8k Here's the dry fact stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven _strategy Now, you may be in favor of destroying the existing system, and replacing it with a new, better one. I might be too. If I can get my father to run it. He was a Navy Corpsman ( pronounced Core-man ) and a pharmaceutical detail man for years.. Which puts him in a better position to judge medical matters than all but a very few Congresscritters. But they ( Congress ) won't do that, so we get panels of people who will write the parameters for when the computer in charge of your health care says to just give you pain meds and let you die. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo Still, Canada seems to do pretty darn good with a socialized system, partly because it is NOT a Federal system but run by the Provinces... Like the plan in Mass. If I had to be in a car crash, please let it be here or Canada, and not Cuba. The trouble is, even the fine Canadian system has the problems built into a socialized anything. You just can't afford to give people everything. There is no tax high enough. There just can't be. Say the average salary in the US is $50k. Many make less, some make more. Obama thinks that unfair. So we tax everyone 100%. Many Congresscritters think it's all their money anyway, so they'd go for it. Now, What are you going to make next year, thanks to the beneficent overlords in D.C.? First we have to assume there are no wars, no need to fix roads, no need to pay for Obamacare, or pay for Obama to fly around in Air Force One to go to fundraisers. Ok. We have to go to the math part based on real world experience. 78% of all the money taken in taxes and passed on in wealth redistribution programs goes to pay for the Bureaucracy. I'm pretty sure we can do better than that in an ideal world... So let's be unrealistic and say that number is only 50%. So you get $25,000 a year to live on, no matter how hard you work, or what your needs, wants and talents say. Quite a bargain. We all make $25k a year! ( never mind we just had 100% inflation on your buying power... Even Carter had a hard time doing that ) I do have to ask, do you remember the last time that was seriously tried in America? It was a long time ago, in a little commune run by religious folk. They starved. Nearly wiped out. If not for some help from their neighbors, they'd be a forgotten memory. As it is, we have a national holiday about the neighbors helping. We call it Thanksgiving. The problem was, with each getting an equal share of the results of hard work, those who worked very hard, farming, digging, building, saw no reason to work harder. If you made $25k a year, period, how hard would you work? If the guy down the street that drinks at dawn and never goes to work made as much as you do, would you keep working hard at a shipping job? ( I've done that job! Under appreciated, at best ) Or would you think you deserve a vacation too? Barry thinks it's a grand idea to redistribute wealth. He hasn't been able to do it on the grande scale I discuss above, but he's been doing what he can. Some he takes from you, and gives to your kids. ( but he's borrowing nearly half of that, and your kids will have to pay it back, one way or another ) A lot he takes and gives to people who would be considered 1%'ers. We know this because they give him more money than I make in a year, so he can campaign. It's ok though, giving Barry money has been an excellent investment for many people. Like the folk who ran Solyndra, Solar Trust of America, Beacon Power, Evergreen Solar....... Not the people that worked there, they got laid off. Perhaps this business economic model has some flaws? http://www.dividedstates.com/list-of-failed-obama- green-energy-solar-companies/ And Here's Clint's speech. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/rnc-2012-cl int-eastwoods-speech-to-the-republican-convention- in-tampa-full-text/2012/08/30/4247043c-f314-11e1-a 612-3cfc842a6d89_story_1.html | ||
| Denisea |
Patty, Good to see your name here; I have been following since the beginning and though FB and I share the same views, I am far from the eloquent speaker. I would like you to expand on your statement "Obama means no harm" if you will please as I also agree with Reindog in that "We as a People, are not going to get anywhere without education and understanding." I believe I have learned much just from following this thread/the links. | ||
| Court |
>>>Obama means no harm. I don't think that's true. I think he does mean harm. I base this simply on the facts of what he's done. He . . . yes indeed . . inherited a real challenge. No one would ever have guessed we'd have been attacked, within our shores, be fighting wars to defend freedom . . nor that the same folks who insured the unemployed 25 year olds, would demand that folks, patently unqualified for loans, be given loans for homes they can't afford. My bet is that, at some point in the process, the same folks who think they can insure "everyone for free" and who list among the gastly inequities foisted on an unsuspecting Americans . . the burden of having to pay the $30 a month for birth control pills . .well . . I'd wager they also meant well when the Community Reinvestment Act started out. But . . you know and I know that forcing a bank to loan someone who make $45,000 per year for the purpose of buying a $650,000 home is folly. It was doomed to fail but the banks were put (thanks Barney Frank) into a "either ignore the lack of qualifications and loan it to them or risk federal penalties" situation. There is no free lunch. I'm not sure Obama MEANT harm although there is a growing body of evidence that he did and knew full well what he was doing. But . . and let's assume for a moment you are right . . . he DIDN'T mean harm, he actually meant to do good . . look where we are. Next week, for the DNC, he's headed to a city that has some of the highest unemployment in the nation. Unemployment is much worse than it was 4 years ago. You and I have 401K's that are kind of a joke, foreclosures continue to rise, there is, at this time, no reason to see any change in the employment situation. Businesses continue to amass money and are not about to invest under the current economic climate. The stimulus stimulated nothing but some Obama contributors. GM was bailed out by the collective geniuses and is now in worse shape than they were went they declared bankruptcy. I predict GM will declare again within the next 12 months. Frankly . . Obama. . . even if it wasn't his intent . has made things MUCH worse. We are in very scary times that, if allowed to continue, are going to change life in America. I'm glad your son has insurance, I recall when my 24 year old, the semester he laid out of KU, didn't have insurance. I didn't have the option of getting a government hand out . . . I had to cut some things out of my personal budget and PAY for his insurance. Back in those days . . it was called "personal responsibility" . . lots of us remember if fondly. We are slowly moving toward a county where, rather than be responsible, we simply ask the government . . . "Be my daddy?" We've got to halt the progression of national laziness and malaise . . get off our collective asses and take some responsibility. I hope we do it before we have to ask permission from the Chinese. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Fuel is a natural resource. Why can't we get that for free too? Nationalize it and its refinement with greedy rich peoples money like opra...err...I mean matt damo....uh...I mean kanye wes....uh I mean like john Kerr....err...uh Donald trump! Yea! Make that rich greedy bastard fill up my tank! | ||
| Reindog |
I gotta go in to work today on this Labor Day weekend and I don't get paid for any "extra" work past 40 hours/week. I am enthralled that my labor gets to pay for others health care by threat of force so I guess that makes me a collective ass. | ||
| Reindog |
Oh yeah, if you haven't seen "2016: Obama's America" yet, then get off your butt and get thee to the theater this weekend. Joe Bob sez, "Check it out". | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/author/56454/latest | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Obama's Speech in Janesville, Wisconsin Facts are REALLY annoying sometimes. What's really annoying is that it took me exactly 22.4 seconds to verify these facts. |
