| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Copters kind of suck for high speed with the rotary wing. At high speeds the side of the rotor swinging forward gets a big boost in airspeed. At the same time the side of the rotor swinging backward looses and equal amount of airspeed. This can be compensated for to a degree with changing the pitch as the blades go around, but eventually the air speed on the slow side drops near zero. You just can't compensate for that. That said, copters manage to cover racing events such as offshore racing and Isle of Man TT. They can likely cover you on the streets until you turn into a road crayon. | ||
| Hootowl |
Also, on the fast side, they can break the sound barrier, which is...unhealthy. "Recently, he upgraded his 1978 CBR750 to a Hyabusa." What does that kit cost?  | ||
| Boltrider |
The LAPD report on police motorcycles: http://www.bmwmc.net/uploads/tm7/LAPD%20Fleet%20Re port.pdf | ||
| Paint_shaker |
As late as 2007 harleys did not come standard with ABS and the optional ABS was questionable at best. Harley has come a LONG way with it's police motorcycles since. Are they the best? That all depends... Most motor officers I have spoken with at other agencies that have switched from the harleys to other brands have stated poor customer service as one reason. Others switched because the right person was in the right place at the right time to switch to a particular brand. Several agencies that switched from harleys to other bikes have,or are in the process of, switching back to harleys. In some case it may be a better h-d dealer relationship, the other brand dealer closed shop and service is no longer local, tradition and for some it may have boiled down to the right people with influence in the right place. The one thing that stands out about the harley is the ability to drag hard parts and not fall down during slow speed manuvers. A harley can be spun in either direction, all the while scrapping floor boards and not fall over. For every other type of police motorcycle (besides Victory), dragging hard parts generally occurs right before the side of the motorcycle kisses the ground. Of interesting note, the 2012 Harleys beat all others in braking 60-0 during MSP and LASD/LAPD testing. 2012 Michigan State Police testing here http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-__1564__1 564-16274--,00.html 2012 LASD/LAPD testing here http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=2012%20poli ce%20motorcycle%20test&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CFoQFj AD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lasdhq.org%2Fsites%2Fmotor cycle-test%2F2012.pdf&ei=IDAPUN33EI2Y8gT614DoDQ&us g=AFQjCNFY6k0Fhza88xeQfLuEuJ-qPmboTw | ||
| Brumbear |
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/009Pages_fro m_VehicleTestBook2011_Web_mil_-_Performance_of_Mot orcycles_341050_7.pdf I just looked at the vehicle weight the BMW is near 200lbs lighter | ||
| Kenm123t |
A Harley Leo bike will hit 155Mph or so With Aero drag its a little slow than a Sky Diver after being dropped out of a C130 | ||
| Drkside79 |
Why wouldn't the police want a BMW over a HD. They are close in cost and the BMWs are faster, turn better, and are more comfortable. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Tradition. Public perception. We built the bikes for DC Metro, every four years. US citizens do not want cops on "foreign" motorcycles...even though many of that same group of citizens drive Toyotas, Hondas, Mazdas... Low speed, the HD is superior, no doubt. I even won a couple Battletrax-type events on my old FLHP. Saved money on lime to show the curves, too - everyone could just follow the scrape-marks left by my floorboards and pipes. Bikes like the XP shone in places like hurricane response; urban patrol; up and down stairs after subjects. Bikes like the BMW carry high service costs, limited service facilities, but trade it off with pursuit capability (although most, if not all, states forbid motor officers from engaging in pursuit operations). | ||
| Dcc46 |
I'm not a big HD fan, but I do believe all American Police Depts should be driving American cars and riding American Bikes. | ||
| Brumbear |
Then what about Victory the bike is imo a better machine than an H-D | ||
| Crackhead |
Low speed, the HD is superior, no doubt. AKA, parade duty. The weight of a HD is also good for blocking intersections. Besides a side car would look ridiculous on a BMW. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"It's the bitter aftertaste." In your brain? Cause you arent using your mouth to post this on here | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I hope Hero / EBR give rise of the Phoenix and the Griffin makes it to the showroom - soon." Agree. Also, for your sake, hope theres a good dealer network in the Ukraine..... just teasing, we all know youre never going | ||
| Trojan |
Many years ago I was a Police Motorcyclist in London. We had a constantly changing fleet of bikes and a few 'demo' bikes from importers/manufacturers. The vast majority of our fleet at that time was BMW K75, BMWK100 and a few of the older R80/100 models (which tells you how long ago it was!). We also had a smattering of rotary engined Norton Commanders that were great fun to ride but useless at pretty much everything but going fast and blowing huge flames out of the exhausts. We were given a H-D 'Pursuit Glide' on extended test for 6 months. Everybody rode it once...then abandoned it in the garage for the next 5 months and 28 days. It was without doubt the most unsuitable machine for police work that I have ever ridden! It was too slow, too heavy, too hot, didn't handle, couldn't cope with the extra weight and electronic demands of blue lights etc and was a general laughing stock whenever the public saw it. It wasn't even better for low speed 'parade' work as it ran so hot compared to the water cooled bikes in the garage and was just too heavy. Eventually the range was updated, first to Honda Pan Europeans, then Yamaha FJ1200's and lately more BMW R1200s. All are much more suitable for police work (both in town or rurally) than anything H-D has ever built. Surprisingly, when we tried to get our bosses to try Triumphs they wouldn't touch them because of the reputation of the 'old' Triumph company, despite the new bikes suitability for the role. Now almost 20 years later Triumph are again in the market with a suitable Police bike (the new shaft drive Trophy) that could actually be what forces have been asking and looking for I think a Hyabusa can outrun a typical chopper. I was lucky enough to end my police career flying in a Eurocopter 355 and a Britten Norman Islander fixed wing aircraft with the North East Air Support Unit based in Newcastle. We had quite a few chases involving high powered and high speed cars and motorcycles and I can assure you that a higher top speed isn't enough to get away from either a helicopter or airplane You forget that you don't need to keep up with the bike, you simply gain height to 3-5000feet and follow with sophisticated camera equipment. The aircraft doesn't need to take bends in the road and can cut across the route taken by road vehicles. Also if it starts to get away you simply call in the next heicopter in the next force area to take over, or advise ground units ahead of the chase vehicel where they can deploy a stinger or road block We chased a Honda Fireblade for over an hour once, and even went to refuel while the fixed wing aircraft took over pursuit while we were away. The guy eventually crashed the bike and was arrested of course (Message edited by trojan on July 25, 2012) | ||
| Paint_shaker |
"Why wouldn't the police want a BMW over a HD. They are close in cost and the BMWs are faster, turn better, and are more comfortable." Cost- BMWs are more expensive up front and more time consuming to maintain due to distance of authorized dealers. Also, lay a harley over and you get scratches in places that aren't normally seen. Lay a BMW over and you are replacing expensive body parts or crash guards that don't hold up. Faster- Most LEO agencies do not allow motorcycles to get involved in pursuits (rendering top speed pretty much useless). The BMW is roughly 2 seconds faster than the harley in 0-60. Turning- The BMW gets the nod in high speed manuvers, the Harley in slow speed stuff (see above ref to speed). Comfort- Subject to personal opinion. The BMW has a fixed seating position. The harely has an air adjustable seat and air ride shocks to adjust for comfort and spacers can be used to adjust the height of the seat. Braking- In 2012 tests conducted by MSP and LASD/LADP the Harleys stopped the quickest from 60-0. Victory Motorcycles- Cost WAY more than any other bike on the market and their slow speed turning abilities are the worst of all the police bikes. You can't judge bikes from years ago. You have to judge the latest and most up to date. I'd be kinda like compairing a Buell RS to a Buell XB and saying Buells suck. ALL that being said, If I had to chose something other than a Harley, it would probably be a BMW. (Message edited by Paint shaker on July 25, 2012) | ||
| Crackhead |
If the concerns is just for under 60mph stuff, why not just get a SM and convert it for police duty? It would have superior low speed handling and reduced fuel usage. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
+9000 Crackhead. I have always wondered why they don't have small lightweight bikes more suited for urban areas. When I was a punk-ass 17 year old, there wasn't much that could catch me on my KLR250 in the city. Most cop cars can't climb stairs. | ||
| Jaimec |
Ummm... BMW R1200RTs are comparable in cost to Harley Electra Glide Classics. When comparably equipped (the BMWs have a lot more standard features) I'm sure you'll find the Beemer costs LESS, not more. You are right about dealerships, however. There are places in this country where you can't throw a rock without hitting a Harley dealership, or an independent service center that specializes in Harley Davidson. BUT, if I were to pick an AMERICAN motorcycle that would be perfect for police use (barring price obstacles, of course), I think I'd lean towards Motus... | ||
| Brumbear |
What do you mean by way more? I really have no idea on costs? | ||
| Boltrider |
I've seen SFPD on dirt bikes in downtown San Francisco. Pretty cool stuff, but that was an exception. | ||
| Brumbear |
This is what I found on Victory bikes http://victorypolicemotorcycles.com/leasepurchase. html | ||
| Torquehd |
the only time i've ever gotten a ticket, it was here in Washington state, by two cops on bmw's. The fat officer's bike died while he was writing my ticket, and he couldn't get it started again. his buddy had to get it for him. and, ironically, i was speeding in my truck, not on my 1125r. i often wonder if i'd pull over, or speed up... | ||
| Trojan |
You can't judge bikes from years ago. You have to judge the latest and most up to date. That would make the comparison even easier to make. The H-D hasn't really changed other than replacing the carb with EFi. It still suffers from teh same problems that it did 20 years ago in terms of speed (lack of), handling (lack of) weight (too much) and general useability and suitability as a police bike. The prospect of doing a high speed ambulance escort through the centre of London on any Harley is a truly frightening thought! The modern BMW, Triumph, Yamaha and Honda models are far superior in pretty much every respect. As for prices, don't compare retail prices because most police forces don't pay anywhere near those  Some vehices in the UK are provided free by manufacturers/importers just to give them more credibility and credence in the eyes of the public. i.e If the police use them they must be good. | ||
| Bbbob |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=201 2207230344 this is an article about the report mentioned a few posts back... (Message edited by bbbob on July 31, 2012) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Just as the Griffin will never see the showroom, I will never make it overseas again. I would not take either wager. PS The new Economic Power House is BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) Ukraine is central and pivotal to transportation, trade, consulting and investment between four of the five - and a RIPE market for a nice alternative to the Ural. Hero would do well integrating into the snow/atv/utility mute shops that already have a network and service capability that support Polaris and Can - Am . Being attached to already existing brick and mortar with a longevity and customer base - gets HERO into the market region in a soft sell; gives them a foot hold, lowers cost of investment for new facilities and puts them into an untapped market that is hungry for transportation - recreation alternatives. Live like a duck - glide on the water, paddle like a mofo underneath, out of site. Not everything I do makes the light of day here. | ||
| Spiderman |
Ahhh the plans on bailing on American have washed down the drain like oh so much dirty bath water... You may have to become an actual functioning and contributing member of society now. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
functioning contributing member society Not if I can ever help it, on all four accounts. I would rather sit on the austerity of the pumpkin in solitude than ever crowd on a velvet couch in 'society' Its from Thoreau - not his exact quote, but the best I can do from the top of my head. From Adam Smith - each individual will excell in their own destiny and direction for the greatest benefit of themselves - when all are in concert to that aim - a true market exists and thrives. we now return you to August and the traditional 'release' of bold new colors and graphic and reiteration of parts that have been around for decades Carry On, welcome to the 2013 H-D model year. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Hey everyone, City is talking about the Ukraine again.... Post more pictures of the girls waiting for you. Or tell us more about the condo thats being built for you. We just love hearing about it all and look forward to you ACTUALLY doing the things you say youre going to do. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
We just love hearing about it all and look forward to you ACTUALLY doing the things you say you're going to do. the actual time frame when that will actually happen: when hell freezes over? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I just picked up the contract to do cultural education and language training for an international marriage and travel site. (it is a shame that I can't just walk across the border and claim residence, social benefits, education, and legal status as an illegal as you can in the US, then again, that is exactly one of the reasons I am headed out) If you want to see and experience first hand; send me PM and I will help you discover the beauty of Ukraine and of course the women. (recently the Ukrainian women were just voted and surveyed as the most beautiful in the world ) http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ukrainian-swedis h-women-named-worlds-most-beautiful/964883/ Otherwise - hmm is that a new 'black' for this year for Harley ? |
