| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
MST starts at $30,975 and MST-R starts at $36,975 (!). http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/LATEST+NEWS/M otus-Motorcycles-reveals-pricing-specs-initial-de/ ArticleStandard/Article/detail/764885?contextCateg oryId=48447 | ||
| Nobuell |
Och | ||
| Barker |
I could get like 10 Ulys for 36K. #missingGDI (Message edited by barker on March 16, 2012) | ||
| Svh |
Much like another current American manufacturer they are priced out of the reach of most normal folks. Great sounding engine and I love that it is different but way too pricey for me. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"Much like another current American manufacturer they are priced out of the reach of most normal folks." while it wont be as easy for them as EB, hopefully Motus will be able to slowly build up a customer base and increase production, resulting in lower costing bikes in the future. They look cool I wish them the best of luck | ||
| Court |
The Motus and the EBR 1190RS are very poor comparisons. But . . . let's just say the guy I had lunch with today, a Badwebber, bought 3 1190RS . . . so apparently some are seeing the value. The Motus, while interesting and intriguing, will be in a tough spot trying to offer similar or lower grade components than, for example, a BMW touring bike, with a $15,000 price premium. The EBR 1190RS, as has been discussed is well under the price of premium offerings, with similar grade components , like the MV Agusta F4 at $50,000 and the Ducati Desowhatever at $77,000. But . . I could be completely wrong. Let's see how they sell. The market doesn't lie.court | ||
| Jaimec |
I think a chain-drive sport tourer for that much wampum is going to be a hard sell. I still don't understand why they didn't go with a shaft drive ESPECIALLY with the engine situated the way it is. Seems it would be a natural for a drive shaft. Between the belt-driven Buells and my shaft-driven BMWs (and now my scooter with the enclosed chain final drive) I don't miss messing with drive chains at ALL. | ||
| Hughlysses |
My educated guess is that engineering a shaft drive from scratch would have been a huge effort for such a small company and would also involve huge expenses for tooling and production compared to chain drive, which can be done with off-the-shelf components. | ||
| Svh |
I never questioned the value of either bike. I simply stated "They are priced out of reach of most "normal" folks." I am glad there are rich people in the world that buy cool pricey things so manufacturers continue to make cool pricey things. Gives me something to drool over! I am glad that Badwebber can afford 3 $40+k bikes. Wouldn't be my choice with an extra $120+k around but it does hopefully help to fund, directly or incorrectly, a lesser $$ American made bike from East Troy and he helped them get enough bikes out the door to go racing! Then we can cheer on an American superbike made by great people again. | ||
| Dynasport |
I spoke with Lee Conn at the Motus display at Daytona BMW/Triumph/Ducati dealership. Regarding the chain drive, he explained the short wheelbase made a shaft drive impossible. The chain has a 20,000 mile warranty. Regarding the components being equal to or less to BMW bikes, I'm not sure that is correct. The price is more than I hoped, but the bike is very interesting. The handlebars are designed to be adjustable in just about every way imaginable. The bike is designed to not need anything swapped out as so many bikes do to get it the way it should be such as new seat or windshield. I believe the designers riding the bikes all over the country allowed them to find things that needed changing instead of having the new owners find the problems. I got a very Buell like vibe meeting the people running Motus. They designed the bike to be comfortably ridden all day and be a blast when you get to the good roads. Exactly the kind of bike I want. Currently a $30,000 bike is out of my price range and I love my Uly XT anyway. I am pulling for EBR to sell tons of bikes and Motus to do the same. Currently they are competing in different markets. EBR is making sport bikes, Motus is making sport-touring bikes. Perhaps eventually they will compete with each other, but right now they aren't. | ||
| Brumbear |
I'm out | ||
| Brumbear |
Thinking it over at that price in this economy as much as I like the idea of the Motus. The brand may not survive there simply are not enough people with that kind of money it's a shame really. | ||
| Blake |
From the start, Motus made it crystal clear that they were not interested in addressing the mainstream market. They are only interested in high dollar limited production scenarios. Their model follows that of Confederate Motorcycles. I'm actually surprised that the price isn't higher. | ||
| Blake |
The same is true for the first 100 EBR 1190RS limited production superbikes. The same is not true for follow-on production at EBR. Anyone care to guess why Motus didn't release any weight specifications for their production bikes. Is the omission accidental or are they possibly embarrassed by the real-world weight of their production bikes? They've offered the weights of their prototypes. | ||
| Brumbear |
I understand but I don't think Motus has enough interest EBR is a different setup entirely imo. EBR has a following from the Buell days,they have racing and now Hero backing they are solid. Motus is a boutique establishment with high end machines but they offer the motor for sale alone? I think they have every intention and necessity to go mainstream because if they don't they will be relegated to obscurity. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The components are all top shelf and many levels above stock on BMWs. The price will come down. The target production is 400 units. The goal is to sell 1000 motors. Motus has an interesting strategy. Unlike other manufacturers, Motus plans to sell the developed powerplant as a crate motor. Since the motor is the most expensive part of a motorcycle and the most expensive to amortize with limited production runs, the goal is to ramp up engine sales even if it means that bikes aren't attached. At 1000 engines produced, the price becomes significantly more manageable. | ||
| 1324 |
While I was hoping for a price in/around $20k, this pricing isn't terribly surprising. I'm not going to go out and buy one anytime soon, but to put it in perspective: 1989 Buell RS1200 MSRP: $14,795 (Source) Adjusted for inflation in 2012: $27,163.50 (Source) I have some serious reservations about the accuracy of the govt's inflation data, so I'd assume it's actually higher. But, even ignoring this, we're in the ballpark. Chock it up to what you will (more content, gov't regs, etc....I really don't know). I wish them well - I'd like to own a competitive American sport(touring) bike. | ||
| 46champ |
Ft_bstrd who is their target customer for the crate engine? | ||
| Brumbear |
I would think it has a ton of applications from marine to woodchippers but there are already a lot of manufacturer's out there for small engines. Subaru Robin,Kohler,Tucumsa, Rotax,Briggs&straton,Ohnan to name a few. 4cyl it's GM, Nissan and Ford that dominate that market. | ||
| Blake |
>>> I think they have every intention and necessity to go mainstream If that is true, then they are liars. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The target market is anyone seeking a powerful, compact, multi-cylinder engine. That's custom builders, watercraft builders, light aircraft builders, automotive builders, etc. With a slightly fatter bore, and a little induction enhancements, and this tiny engine is capable of 300hp+. Would make a hell of a drift car engine. With an adapter, would turn a Miata into a monster. Just because there are other small engines on the market, it doesn't mean there isn't room for another. The architecture is unique. This means there are advantages in this offering not available from others. It's a great little engine. Right now, it's a solution in search of a problem. The more problems it solves, the less expensive the MST becomes. | ||
| Brumbear |
I wouldn't say they are liars but who goes into business to stay afloat? @FB I think it's a great engine but I would want it to be a seller not a boutique engine. I'd like to see the motor standardized in an industrial situation that could solidify the company alone. Look at the GM 4.3 do you realize that motor is in every single forklift produced from 8000lber up now, unless you want diesel the GM 4.3 is the world standard. I mean it Komatsu, Toyota, Hyster, Yale, Cat Mitsubishi,Clark every single truck and thats just forklifts now go to generators,Marine and welders and Holy crap that's a shyt load of motors. I'd love to see that happen it would mean $15K bikes would be common place for Motus IMO. | ||
| 7873jake |
Parallel thread on same topic in the Uly dungeon: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/671851.html?1332118413 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Brumbear, The goal is motorcycles. The cheat to gain greater market share and higher production quantities is the crate motor. They aren't shooting for massive industrial applications. They are shooting for 1000+ engines a year. If 3-400 go in bikes and the rest of the 1000 go wherever, great. If the get the production and sales numbers up above 1000 units, the crate motor strategy is no longer a necessity. They created a purpose built engine that could have some other applications. Unlike MOST manufacturers, they are at least open to the idea of selling their motors sans bike. Few other motorcycle manufacturers if any would even entertain the idea. Ask Roehr. | ||
| Brumbear |
Thanks I see. Well in that case I hope they can survive I am doubtful to that survival but it's just my view. | ||
| Glitch |
Few other motorcycle manufacturers if any would even entertain the idea. Ducati would be one of the few I reckon. Would you consider BRP one of the few as well? I don't see anything wrong with selling engines. Could you imagine an Atom like car with that engine? Take an already light car, and put an even lighter weight engine in it. Go kart for sure! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I wouldn't consider BRP as one simply be wise they own Rota, an engine only manufacturer. Ducati, though, is one of the very few. Imagine a Smart Car with a KMV4 in it. | ||
| Xl1200r |
What's the weight penalty of going from the KMV4 to a more-or-less standard GM LS-series small block V8? The reason I ask is I'm sure you could get a GM crate engine for a lot less or find a used engine and have a nearly limitless supply of backups. That same adapter means the V8 will fit in the Miata. Aircraft engines? VERY few people would take up on that (like, maybe 1 or 2) as there are other more powerful, lighter and more proven designs out there. A V-config is not very aerodynamic and the need for a reduction drive drives up cost and engineering/complexity even more. I guess what i'm getting at is I don't know who else would buy these engines aside from bike builders, it seems perfectly suited for a motorcycle (which is fine, obviously), but there are other choices for most other applications that are likely better. Blake - I'm curious on the weight, too. To be honest, if it's not sub-550lbs with bags and a tank of gas, it's more or less a pointless excersize in my book. For now, I'll stick to my S3T! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Not even remotely the same engine as the LS small block. Adapter plate isn't close to the same. From the discussions I've had, there have been several inquiries from EAA folks regarding this engine. The weight is close to the test mules, sub 550lbs. | ||
| Blake |
Brumbear, Their model is that of Confederate. They have stated clearly that they don't care to compete in high volume production, only very expensive, high-end motorcycles. |
