| Author | Message | ||
     Fb1 |
Just for fun (and because Patrick invoked "The Box"........  )
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| Johnnymceldoo |
FN SCAR ftmfw! | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo The tumbling occurs in the target The bullet basically Yaws in flight so the tip rotated through nearly a .50 cal dia during flight As I originally said... It's my understanding that the .223 being a fairly light round, tends to tumble quickly when it hit's anything. I never meant to imply or claim it tumbled in flight. Yaw in flight? First I heard of that. I don't know one way or another to be honest. My intuition says no. My intuition is wrong at times though.  | ||
| Slaughter |
The yawing in flight is a myth. Sorry but it is. The ammo could NEVER have come close on accuracy standards which were called out in the specifications. The original tests were done on anesthetised goats to check for wounding. I've handloaded TONS of 5.56 and the only weirdness was driving the Hornady SX to extremely high velocities. SX ("Super Explosive") had a very thin jacket and would strip off in the rifling when you got much above 3200FPS. You could see it in flight with vapor trails and you could see it in the paper targets. David R. Hughes was a friend of mine and commanded the USAF's Combat Air Control unit that was the first US military unit to use the M16 in combat. He had the largest cartridge collection of rounds for that gun/caliber (almost 3500 different types). I got a pre-publication copy of his book on the rifle and cartridges. Interestingly, he was one of the FIRST USAF special operators to go through SEAL BUDS:  | ||
| Thumper74 |
I had a 5.45 that had rounds tumbling at 50 yards! It had a 5.56 barrel... An AK is a good purchase. It's cheap, it works and surplus ammo is available. You can pick up a nice 7.62 with 2,000 rounds of surplus for the price of an entry level AR. They're both good guns, but you're not likely to be defending yourself at 500 yards. My $379 AK shoots a 1" group at 100 yard and can keep a magazine on a paper plate, at 300 yards with ghost rings. | ||
| Swampy |
The AK is a great rifle on the cheap. Like on all things you can get good ones and not so good ones. I have never had a failure to fire with any of the cheap AKs with anykind of ammo. The AR was not so, I had an SP1 upper at one time that was really finnicky about what was fed to it, probably due to having a tight chamber, which was the reason for all of the early bad press of the M16/AR15 back in the 60s. However, a modern upper works fine with just about every ammo out there. There have been ALOT of good ARs at Dunhams for $600-700 over the past few months. I just bought a ISSC MK 22 which is a FN SCAR clone for $350 from Dunhams, I have not fired it yet but am dissapointed in the unavailabity of spare magazines at this time. I bought it for investment purposes, cheap and ugly. Always buy any firearm that the press is whining about, you can't go wrong. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Swampy, if you ever want to ditch the scar clone for gsg mp5 clone let me know. I'd love to have one. | ||
| Jramsey |
Steve,the SX has a dead soft lead core and a jacket thickness of about .007 verses the standard of .008-.0085 hence the SX name. Here's some of my hand swaged 52 gr. bullets made from Eley .22 rimfire brass.  One pair of 22-250 and one of .222, each pair sporting a Sierra Copper and reformed .22LR Brass jacketed bullets. Just below the loaded cartridges are a spent case,annealed case with rim removed,lead core(1%antimony)and the finished swaged bullet. The reformed .22 LR case in the mic measures a strong .005. I drive the triple deuce about 3,150 fps and the 22-250 at a conservative 3,750 and have never lost a jacket other than after intering its target. Either bullet will shoot 1/2 minute out to 400 yards. (Message edited by Jramsey on March 09, 2012) | ||
| Kenm123t |
Look up the state of Utah medical school reference on Fire arms wounds and it describes Precession yawing and Nutations effects on wounds and how they effect the body Follow the link it describes the 223 vs 308 and why the the yawing bullet was utilized library.med.utah.edu/webpath/tutorial/gun/gunblst. html My 280 Ackley only stablizes after about 150 yards In short its more accurate at 600yds than at 200yds since nutation has decreased the longer the flight path. Unstable or the Yawing bullet was how Stoner made the wound ballistics of a 223 round have the wounding ability of the .30 rifles. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
How can a bullet be stable in flight if it's tumbling? There is a reason it's shaped the way it is and not like a minie ball from the Civil War. You might as well launch a cinder block out of the barrel. | ||
| Jramsey |
The Minie ball is a bullet shaped projectile with a thin walled base that expanded when fired thus gripping the rifling improving accuracy and velocity and faster to load than a patched round ball. | ||
| Macbuell |
Based on the video posted by Fb1, it looks like that 5.56 NATO round performed as intended. What is the difference between the 5.56 NATO and the .223? Can you assume the .223 round would perform similarly? | ||
| Glitch |
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/08/148 217754/report-explosive-growth-of-patriot-movement -and-militias-continues?ft=1&f=1001 | ||
| Fb1 |
Wow, the Southern Poverty Law Center, promoted as a "news source" by NPR. Big surprise.
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| Jramsey |
"What is the difference between the 5.56 NATO and the .223?' I copied this from an article in the American Rifleman last year. "The .223 Remington cartridge is the commercial equivalent of the 5.56 X 45 NATO. Some don't understand that from a physical dimension standpoint these cartridges are indeed one in the same. Externally, there is no measurable difference between them. There are, however, two differences in other areas. The first deals with pressure. Manufacturers load .223 Rem. to 55,000 psi, as established by SAAMI (Sporting Arms & Ammunition Institute). The maximum average pressure for the 5.56 NATO is about 61,600 psi, as established by the U.S. Military. This is 11 percent more than .223 Rem. pressures. Because the 5.56 NATO is a military cartridge, SAAMI hasn’t set pressure limits for it. This is why all handloading data published conforms to SAAMI .223 Rem. pressure limits. The second difference deals with the way the chamber—more precisely the throat—is cut into the barrel. A barrel chambered for the 5.56 NATO has a longer lead than one chambered for the .223 Rem. This means the distance the rifling begins from the end of the case mouth in a 5.56 chamber is longer than it is in a .223 Rem. chamber. Erring on the side of safety, you can always shoot .223 Rem. ammo in a 5.56 NATO chambered rifle, but should only shoot 5.56 NATO ammo in modern, bolt-action .223 Rem. rifles—never in .223 semi-autos." | ||
| Glitch |
I have no idea where my comment went. Only the link came through. Thanks Jerry, Mr. Keefe hit the nail on the head. My point was/is that while Preppers (I hate that name) are becoming more and more popular, the media is trying desperately to make ordinary people wanting to be truly independent, becoming self sufficient, and ready for anything look like hate mongers, paranoids, and crazed rednecks. There's an article somewhere (I can't find it now) that pretty much says the government can label you a terrorist if you have more than two weeks of food and water stored away. I do know that in all the documents I have from FEMA, and the Red Cross that are supposed to help you get prepared for disaster, say that you shouldn't need more than two weeks reserves. Even though it is unlikely that an emergency would cut off your food supply for two weeks, you should consider preparing a supply that will last that long. Three days water? Keep at least a three-day supply of water, or a minimum of three gallons per person. It's mind boggling to me. Why would government even worry about how much you decide how much or what you store. | ||
| Fb1 |
Thanks Jerry, Mr. Keefe hit the nail on the head. Welcome.  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
AR dressed in 308 for distance SBS Kel Tec Bull Pup CQB Shotty 15 rounds, sub 23 inches 7 slug, 8 buck - 50 round bandoleer. Ruger SP101 for carry, .357 Hot Loads I like my stupidity down range, but if it gets close - I like it dead. | ||
| Glitch |
They let you carry all that in the Ukraine? | ||
| Glitch |
Rifled weapons are prohibited in Ukraine for civil citizens. Oh well, you're outta luck if you want to stay legal. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
I'd hold out for the Beretta AXR. Hopefully civilian version will be here this year. Oh, almost forgot the IMI tavor! It should be here fall/winter. | ||
| Mnrider |
Crappy pic of my sport and Barsca illuminated retical scope.  These guns have no dust cover or forward assist which makes them more affordable. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Still stuck in the US..... grrrrr There will be plenty of pics posted when I finally make it there - I have off loaded everything domestic - I just need the job The Ukraine cache is all Kalashnikov Makarov Tokarev and an Italian Shotgun of note Not counting her weapons Don't know how many they will send, but I know how many we can take with us. gotta love a girl that can hunt and fish. | ||
| Glitch |
I had no idea you hated America so much that you felt the need to run away. I thought you were just infatuated with some Ukraine girl, and would bring here back here. That's what all the Ukraine women I know want to do. Get the hell outta there and come here. Well, to each their own. I love my home and will defend it to the death, I'm not one to run away when things aren't going my way. My vote is needed here more than ever, and yours is too believe it or not. You sure it's not the allure of some Ukraine beauty, and not politics that call you over there. I've done a bunch of reading, and IMHO the Ukraine is way more ****** up than here. gotta love a girl that can hunt and fish. That my friend is not something unique to the Ukraine! I got a Georgia Peach, that does very well out in the wild. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
been deployed to too many ethnic clensings, the writing is on the wall. And with my ire against this administration - I am sure I am on somebody's list. | ||
| Glitch |
Ethnic cleansing is quite a leap, what writing is on what wall? List? You overvalue your Russian language skills. But go ahead and run, if you don't want to stay and at least try to help get things on the right path in your homeland I doubt you'd be much help anyway. Just don't come back after all the work is done. Not trying to sound too harsh, but running when you should be fighting ain't the honorable way to do things where I come from. Hope you get the job you're waiting on, and your girlfriend is still waiting for you when you get there. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Two words: double oh buck. Pump gun | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Nobody believes its coming, and I am not standing on my own. I like my chances better overseas. I have friends in dark places - well placed, well funded, well equipped. Here - it is all to glory glory lets get him re-elected. The resilient/transitional cities are on the march. Go read the white papers. The ONLY way they work is to thin the herd - dramatically. It is the same rhetoric that was in E. Europe - it gets ugly. Full domestic conflict - with in three, full economic collapse by 2017 - just in time for them to celebrate the 100th 'Red Revolution' in D.C. Happy to eat crow if I am wrong. Bosnia, Kosovo, Hertzegovina, Slovenia, Slovakia - and the bubbling farcas in Georgia say I am not. | ||
| Guell |
Just don't come back after all the work is done. Not trying to sound too harsh, but running when you should be fighting ain't the honorable way to do things where I come from. +1 | ||
| Glitch |
I have friends in dark places - well placed, well funded, well equipped. Sorry, but I'm going to have to call BS on that one. If you have such well funded friends, why aren't they helping you get there? Why aren't they providing you with the much needed job that keeps you here? Look man, I realize you're frustrated and you wish things were different, hell we all do. But for you to go running off because of some political nonsense is beyond me. I think you've got other issues that are driving you. I'd bet if you decided to make a change, and actually move somewhere, (in the good ol' USA) you'd fair better than going to a unitary semi-presidential republic. I could be wrong though, it happens |
