| Author | Message | ||
     Cityxslicker |
and they fiddled while Rome burned. | ||
| Blake |
Interesting information Joe. Thanks for sharing that. The nexus of gov't and corporations is the problem, but as Jeremy points out, without the massive spending bills that might not be such a threat. | ||
| Moxnix |
Where is John Galt when we really need him? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Gotta get down to it, soldiers are gunning us down.... should have been done long ago. Arrested and detained for dancing in the Jefferson Memorial .... | ||
| Fahren |
Blake, Although reassurances are made about the above articles in the Defense Appropriations Bill, one must also remain vigilant. Recall the Defense Appropriations Bill of 2007, passed in 2006, specifically Article 333, which greatly (and unconstitutionally) broadened the Executive power to declare martial law, and decreased states' control of their own National Guard units, and to command those state units on US soil, only "informing" the Congress about it after the fact. The 2007 amendments to 333 were repealed in 2008, but we should not for a minute let down our guard about the desire on the part of an Executive branch (any, not just GWB's or BHO's) to over-extend their reach. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Act like an ass hole, you get stuffed and cuffed. I don't really have a problem with this. | ||
| Fahren |
I suppose you will continue to think that's fine, until someone in a uniform thinks you are acting like an ass hole and does it to you. Or maybe it'll just be an "honest mistake," but you will still end up slammed to the floor and cuffed. No harm, no foul. Right? | ||
| Aesquire |
"Show me your Papers, bitte" "Schnell!" So, a federal judge who belongs on the town elders of a remake of Footloose decided that dancing at a memorial is satanic? For THAT people are assaulted by armed men? I understand pepper spraying the commies at an Occupy event where their PURPOSE is to make trouble. But Dancing? The People's Republic of DC? | ||
| Blake |
Chris (Fahren), Vigilance is good for sure. But the language in the bill is not mere "reassurance"; it is pretty darn black and white. I'm no lawyer, so I could be mistaken. | ||
| Hootowl |
That's an old video. That group of people went there with the intent of getting arrested. They got what they wanted: To get arrested and have the video posted on youtube. Find the entire video. As usual, it's a little more revealing of actual events than the little slice this one shows. | ||
| Fahren |
Hootowl, You have just about defined civil disobedience right there - very well done. A person or people non-violently dis-obeying what they believe to be an unjust law, with the intent of seeing it changed or repealed. I have to believe that the colonists before and around 1776 would have loved to use youtube to broadcast the oppressive behavior of the British. Blake, LOL I'm not a lawyer, either. Good thing other folks besides just the bikers of Badweb look into these things :-) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I suppose you will continue to think that's fine, until someone in a uniform thinks you are acting like an ass hole and does it to you. Or maybe it'll just be an "honest mistake," but you will still end up slammed to the floor and cuffed. No harm, no foul. Right? You act as though these folks were walking through a mall and were snatched out of a group of a hundred people. These people were acting out of the norm of what would be expected at a national monument. When asked about their behavior, they refused to be cooperative, to answer straight forward questions, to act rational. In light of the current environment, the Arab Spring, the current political environment, the current economic environment, the general state of unrest, etc, even the most innocent of "odd behaviors" must be scrutinized to a greater degree by law enforcement. If these folks had been doing this in say May of 1996, or May of 1989, I doubt there would have been even an eye batted. If you were an arabic speaking muslim raising your voice and making a scene in 1998, you'd have just been viewed as a jerk and a disturbance. Do the same in December of 2001, and half the plane may jump you and pin you to the floor. Context means everything. | ||
| Sifo |
The idea that the OWS group is peaceful is farcical. Here's the latest from the Seattle group... http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/12/peaceful-o ccupy-seattle-threw-sharpened-rebar-bricks-and-bag s-of-paint-at-police/ Throwing sharpened rebar? That's peaceful? You don't even bring that sort of thing to a peaceful event. Check the news video though. The Fleabaggers released their video claiming the police were violent against their peaceful protest. The police took video that shows something very different. Honestly, what kind of person throws what amounts to a steel spear at cops? | ||
| Fahren |
Sifo, although technically your post is more on topic of the 99%ers, we were in the midst of a digression concerning the peaceful dancing at the Jefferson Memorial. Again, FT, you are judging the behavior as "odd." So I say to you again, just wait until something you do is judged as "odd." And maybe if you wait long enough, without speaking out on behalf of others who speak out against unjust and wrong laws, maybe there won't be anything you will be able to do to help yourself when they come and judge you as "odd." | ||
| Hootowl |
Thanks. However, their behavior doesn't rise to the level of true civil disobedience. Not sitting in the back of the bus is civil disobedience. That was an unjust law. I'm all for that. These jokers are not Rosa Parks. No, these folks are just out to get on youtube. They're using a national park as a dance hall, interrupting other folks trying to use it for its intended purpose. That they're couching their bad behavior in civil disobedience makes them grad A jackasses. I'm glad they got arrested, and I hope it keeps them from getting a job at some point. They need a lesson. | ||
| Sifo |
Sure Fahren. There's no connection. So are we all in agreement then that the fleabagers are not a peaceful movement then? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Sure Fahren, I frequently see groups of random people dancing. We know what behaviors one would expect to see at a national monument. This isn't it. I have judgment. Sound judgment. Common sense even. Right thinking people understand the different between contextually consistent behavior and "odd" behavior. I see it everything day. My son has Aspergers. I can guarantee that EVERY parent knows what is "normal" behavior and what is "odd" behavior. They aren't making an arbitrary "judgment" but an evaluation based upon experience. It's intellectually dishonest to carry on like these people didn't have an agenda and a goal in mind that required behavior out of the norm to the level to gain the attention of the police. This was a stunt not a police overreach. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
the body slam and the choke hold I would expect from a knife or a gun - or even direct verbal abuse to the cop.... moves like a drunk Jager ? No. | ||
| Blake |
It is a memorial, not a dance hall or recreational park; it's a memorial, a solemn place where folks come to reflect and learn. I'd have been more inclined to just kick the inconsiderate punks in the nuts. See if they care to dance after that. Neither any memorial nor the national museums are appropriate for demonstration let alone dancing. It's called being a public nuisnace, disturbing the peace. The body- slam may seem excessive, but the punk was resisting arrest. "If you dance here you will be arrested..." Call me silly if you like; I'd not have continued to dance there. | ||
| Pwnzor |
There is a time and place for everything. Those idiots were acting foolishly, and they earned a fool's wages. Let them see the inside of a jail cell, they can dance there all they like. | ||
| Ulyranger |
Rosa Parks?? More like South Park. They were a bunch of idiots out to get arrested and obtain their fifteen minutes. Word to the wise: you act like an azzhole at a National Monument, wear a shirt that reads "DISOBEY" and THEN actively resist arrest I have zero sympathy for you dirtbag. Was that a procedure move? Probably not, but it wasn't life altering nor super aggressive either. Seen people really slammed to the ground much harder than that. Usually every Sunday afternoon......... | ||
| Pwnzor |
That guy getting thrown to the ground was actually being given preferential treatment. Could have simply been tazed and beaten like they would have done to me had I been acting so idiotically. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I rewatched the video. I don't see how ANY of what happened could be construed as "police brutality". They were disturbing the peace, asked to comply or leave, informed of the actions that would be taken against them if they refused to comply or leave, were given multiple warnings before being arrested, when they proved uncooperative and resisted arrest, they were dealt with reasonably. "Body Slam?" Really? | ||
| Hootowl |
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/21/bank-am erica-to-pay-335-million-settlement-in-fair-lendin g-case/ So, the government is STILL putting pressure on banks to make risky subprime loans? By pursuing this case against BoA this is exactly what they are doing. | ||
| Hootowl |
SEC sues CEOs of FM/FM, accuses them of lying about how heavily they were invested in sub prime loans. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702047 91104577108183677635076.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADT op | ||
| Hootowl |
The truth about FM/FM is finally seeing the light of day. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702047 91104577110643650732030.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADT op | ||
| Satori |
Hootowl, No the B of A thing has to do with the fact that countrywide Loan officers were putting minorities whom they could fool easily into sub prime loans when they could qualify for a prime loan. The reason they were doing it was to make a bigger paycheck, because sub prime loans paid more then. I say "then" because the compensation plan they had is no longer legal to use. It used to be a LO could get paid on the profitability of the loan, now they only get paid on volume. The practice is called steering, and is a rather dispicab;le practice. The upside is most of those LO's probably cant get a job as a LO anymore because of the new lic. standards. | ||
| Sifo |
It used to be a LO could get paid on the profitability of the loan When was this going on. I was a loan officer 2003-2005 and never heard of getting paid that way. | ||
| Satori |
Sifo, did you get paid on the up front points, or on yield spread or Service release premium? all up front profit centers for the bank, of course customers have no way of seeing service release premium. And its gone on as long as I can remember. Now they dont get paid that way. | ||
| Sifo |
Yield spread. I guess I can see how that can be abused, but it would be easier to abuse it by getting them into the better loan and just charging them a higher interest rate. Our manager was pretty harsh on doing this sort of thing though. I'm sure that wasn't the case everywhere. In any case, if I wanted to take advantage of someone, I would have best done it by getting them into the best product I could and just hiking their rate. How does it work to get more from getting them into a sub-prime loan? I'm not surprised that it is Countrywide that's involved in this though. They always seemed (to me at least) to be among the most "creative". I honestly haven't spent time trying to delve into what's going on in this case yet. |
