| Author | Message | ||
     Jumbo_petite |
If I am correct the IOM is an entity all to itself, not part of any sanctioned championship or series and all the racers are voluntary. It is a splendor of sight, sound and aroma. So promotion no matter how glorified does not bother me and one day I will be there as a spectator. I consider it a bucket list item and I want to ship my old trumpet over there to ride while I'm there. The IOM riders are a special breed. | ||
| Blake |
I could be wrong Dave. I strongly doubt that, but I hope that I am. Any motive of profit at the expense of such guaranteed atrocity can be nothing but filthy greed. Boltrider, >>> quote: "Some make a fraction of a second sound —GGCCLLAAACK!!!— as their right knee-slider zips across the grate of the storm-drain." >>> That is crazy and AWESOME! Nothing much different from any race where riders knee pucks hit a curb or irregular feature on the track. I wonder why didn't he share with the readers the noise of a racer smacking into a stone building/wall, the sound of crushed torsos, broken bones and blood soaked sputum gurgling forth as lungs fill with blood. How awesome would that be?  | ||
| Bads1 |
Well I guess Blake your views and thought don't mimmick others. I enjoy the race and the racers know what they sign up for because they enjoy that particular race. If it was here in the Good Ole US of A it wouldn't exist because we live by rule after rule and law after law.Well thats not the Good Ole US of A and they choose to run there country and govern there sports differently. | ||
| Tankhead |
Voluntary.. Culture.... 'Nuff said. No need for debate. But you will. Five pages at least.  | ||
| Mtjm2 |
Tankhead , love the name Bro . Blake , I myself would not race at the IOM ,when I was younger ???. I have watched videos posted here of dudes jumping off cliffs and flying . Jet Man ! Not sure about the money made from the IOM ,however, people do things that maybe they shouldnt , for less . | ||
| Niceguyeddy |
Even if you don't go for the TTs, it is wonderful and fascinating. It is a place that, imo, can not be described but has to be experienced. Try the Texas themed eatery, that will leave you quite confused. I would advise a vodka milkshake to add to the confusion. | ||
| No_rice |
These Irish lads do not view life in the same way we do, that's for sure! everyones view on life is different, apparently my way of looking at things is very different from most also... they way i look at it im on borrowed time, or there is a bigger use for me. i should have been dead long ago more then once. many of those times i escaped with not a single scratch, sometimes i walked away with a page long list of broken stuff, but i did WALK away. im the guy that will be blasting along down the black top at 100 plus and never let up as the blacktop stops and the gravel starts. its not worth a fleeting thought... it will either work or it wont, dont know until you try... you dont know whats going to kill you until it does. i tell Jenn that im immortal, up until the point that im not. she thinks im a head case, but at the same time one of the most down to earth grounded people she knows. why live in fear? to afraid to do something because you might get hurt, or even killed. so what. ive come close to that happening on my leisurely 8 miles ride to work. it feels great to know you can do, or have done things other people will never experience simply because they are to worried. i wouldnt be who i am if i worried about all that crap. and i like who i am. i am very honestly happy with myself, which i used to not be able to say. i say what i feel regardless if someone likes it or not, and i do what i feel. no one will ever wonder where they stand with me. why wouldnt i run in the IOM if given the opportunity? i may die, but then again i may not. i might also get hit by a car sitting in my recliner(happened to my uncle, actually thats the second time a car came through their living room) i dont care if people die doing something they chose to do. maybe i should rephrase that. yes i care, but i wont fault them for there decision to do it. just like if some squid in shorts and a tank top gets wiped out. he made that choice. he will live with it, or maybe he wont. who am i to pass judgement on his decisions. where did most peoples willingness to live life go? let it all hang out, life will sort out the rest. | ||
| Blake |
Some here may not realize that I've raced motorcycles. I'm not opposed to risk at all. But the IOM is not just risk, it is certain death. It is pure and simple, gambling with life. Even that alone is fine if that is what you want. What is outrageous is the promotion of the venue for profit while at the same time covering up the horrendous toll it exacts. Articles like the one referenced here are a perfect example. Really poor journalism. Not honest. | ||
| Blake |
Dying as a result of pursuing excellence has its merits. Dying as a result of chasing an incredibly risky thrill, not so much. I think the two are quite different. Why not make it even more "thrilling" and stick sharp metal blades out from the walls? Do you doubt there would be some who would still compete? I think the disagreement is not that a line should be drawn, but where. The history of the event has its hold. I think it's unfortunate, because I really do think that if they wanted to do so, the IOM could make a revised course that would be safe. But it would inconvenience the people there. No need as long as folks continue to flock and watch pay. | ||
| Brumbear |
IMO thats the wrong answer Blake I am not as hard core in my beliefs as Norice but he is living his life and those who run the IOM are living theirs. You are dead if you can't live your life it's our thing it's what we do man. The hair stands up on the back of my neck and I get all cranked up when I see the IOM, it always has and always will same when I ride too .When I was a little fella messing around on my honda ct70 to motocross racing to riding white knuckled on the twisties. I feel it in my soul. The IOM is road racing at it's core. | ||
| Davegess |
But it would inconvenience the people The folks could hardly be MORE inconvenienced than they are now. All the major roads shut for hours every day for two weeks. A different course out in the country might well be more convenient but it would not be the historic mountain course. | ||
| Blake |
The folks who own hotels/motels, resaurants, shops, and pubs might not feel so inconvenienced. They likely earn a fair share of their annual income as a result of the moto racing events there. Meanwhile four die per year as part of the big show. I was a huge fan until I learned of the gruesome toll of the racing there, and especially now that the gov't there is going all out to promote the venue. So I get the appeal. The horrific human toll and the rampant commercialism just shatters it for me. I can personally attest that when you're lying in the ambulance wondering if this is it for you, tunnel vision setting in, coughing up blood, you aren't thinking how glorious the race was. You think how much you still have to live for, really important, really meaningful amazing soul lifting sharing, laughing, and loving to live for. And you feel like a first class fool for possibly throwing it away so frivolously. Braving and conquering a deadly road course competition versus having another day riding, playing ball, and just enjoying friends and family? One of the above might deserve being promoted by the gov't. The other might ought to be entirely left to those who are truly mightily compelled to do so. No? | ||
| Gregtonn |
"The IOM gov't is the epitome of money-grubbing greedy." Find a rider who says, "The gov't made me do it." Until then you're just crashing the party to piss in the punch bowl. Yeah, I know, you'll complain of a "personal attack" but the facts is the facts. G | ||
| Blake |
You have a tough time following cogent discussion. Try reading my points again. Nowhere is the idea that the gov't is coercing or luring racers ever implied. You've invented a staw man argument. The point is that they are exploiting a horribly deadly event for money. | ||
| Blake |
My idea of a good party is one that doesn't end up with scores of folks dead, maimed, or crippled. >>> Yeah, I know, you'll complain of a "personal attack" but the facts is the facts. I understand some don't like opposing opinion. Doesn't bother me, makes for good discussion. Some just can't stick to that though. They prefer to make personal attack. It's bizarre. Do you think the article gave an honest accounting of the event? Not a single mention of it's gruesome toll? I guess the author didn't want to pee in the IOM punch bowl. Or maybe he was afraid of all the corpses floating in it. | ||
| Guell |
You make it sound like a blood bath out there Blake, like every racer faces certain death. That's your opinion and I would say most disagree with you. It's a historic road race. How is it exploitation exactly? People don't go there to see racers killed, they go there for the race. Same with oh say motogp. | ||
| Blake |
It's exploitation in the same sense that any profit motivated sports/entertainment venture exploits (takes advantage of) the participants. In most cases no big deal. College football probably comes closest, earning much but sharing little with those who make the show. But we don't have four dead players every weekend. Sounds like a blood bath? Factoring for time in harm's way, it's much less life threatening to be coalition/American military in Afghanistan or Iraq. Over 80 dead since 1990 in motorcycle racing at IOM. Blood bath? That seems accurate. Then try to find how many crippling crashes have occurred at IOM. There's no record that I've found. At least in college football, many of the competitors are compensated. Tuition, room and board are worth tens of thousands per year, tax free. They ought to be able to get more, but the NCAA wants it for themselves. Another topic for another day. Point is that if four died every weekend, or heck every year, college football would face massive pressure to revise and reform towards less deadly conditions. The same goes for any money making sporting event organization. Except for the IOM. If the topical IOM article and others like it were just fully forthcoming and honest in their reporting about the motorcycle racing venue there, not so glorifyingly fawning over it, maybe, eventually less deadly racing conditions could be achieved. For instance, keep racing, but rework three of the most dangerous track features every year to significantly reduce the fatal threat they pose. Within a decade, we'd likely see noticeable improvements to overall safety. Lives would be spared. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"You have a tough time following cogent discussion." Not at all. But you certainly have a difficult time making a cogent argument on this subject. "But the IOM is not just risk, it is certain death." Not at all. The only thing that makes death certain is living in the first place. Something for you to consider. http://www.toptenz.net/top-ten-most-dangerous-auto -races.php Ban them all? G | ||
| Jumbo_petite |
It's exploitation in the same sense that any profit motivated sports/entertainment venture exploits (takes advantage of) the participants. In most cases no big deal. By that case I guess all bike weeks should stop too. The last few times I have gone to Myrtle Beach Bikeweek, it has averaged 4 deaths per year. So the city of Myrtle Beach is exploiting it's participants. | ||
| Davegess |
It is indeed more dangerous than MotoGP but not 100 times or 50 times more dangerous. Perhaps 10 times more dangerous. The TT event is roughly a full season of MotoGP racing and practice compressed into two weeks. The Manx GP is about half of that. There have been 3 deaths in MotoGp in the last 8 years and 31 on the TT course (some in the Manx some in the TT). Over the lifetimes of the two championships the GP averages just under a fatality every 2 years while the Mountain course is about 2.5 deaths a year so it roughly 6 times the GP death rate. Not a good number but not "certain death" I believe Blake's issue is that what he considers a extremely dangerous event is being promoted and glorified for a filthy profit. In my mind so is GP racing or the Paris-Dakar (which kills about 2 people a year). If someone wasn't able to make some money off of racing there would be no race tracks. | ||
| Tankhead |
Straw man, dishonesty, challenging one's reading comprehension, manipulating the statistics that make the race a sure death. We have witnessed it time and time again. It serves no purpose other than you feeling important. Why are you on the thread bashing it? The OP's thread is a pro IOM thread. It is a major bummer to read your posts. If you don't like it don't read it. Man, it sounds like trolling to me. Why do you do this all the time Blake???? Leave it alone. Go ahead and bash me now, challenge me and then ask why I won't answer your rebuttal and then call me dishonest blah blah blah. Do you ever reflect on why you do this all the time. Let people on the island do what they want. AFAT OP, I have always been intrigued that the men take such incredible risks and the size of the balls must be hard to fit in their leathers, I know I would never think about doing such things but I respect different cultures and let it be. I sure as hell would not be on a website trying to argue a very moot point.  | ||
| Tankhead |
Do we want capitalism or not. If there is a market they will come. Cake and eat it too? | ||
| 86129squids |
Had the same thoughts J.P.... other than not being held on an island, Sturgis, Daytona, Myrtle Beach et al all have several fatalities every year, why shouldn't they be compared to IOM? (Still looking for that facepalm emoticon, maybe a pissing in the wind one too, when it comes to The Omnicient One.) As to my original post, I sincerely hope the rest of BW can get a little enjoyment out of it. I sure did! Matter of fact, I might just go back and read it again! Now, who's with me for a little discussion of Pamplona, bullfighting, dwarf tossing, seal clubbing, yaddayaddayadda... Oh yeah, one more thing- I VOTED FOR OBAMA! There. Now the thread has now been properly ruined, politics and all. Geez.  | ||
| Tankhead |
The article was full of dishonesty. Evil reporting. They should be ashamed of themselves. How dare they celebrate something they enjoy. Thanks for posting this article. I thought it was well written and gave the reader a good sense of the culture, unfortunately the bomb scare incident, and overall sense of "being there." Thanks again (Message edited by tankhead on November 04, 2011) | ||
| 1324 |
Good article! I'm even going to re-read it later. I'm especially pumped because the wife and I are headed to Scotland in May/June of 2012. We intend to get over to IOM where I will happily support the local government. Can't wait! | ||
| Davegess |
1324, dude ditch Scotland, IOM is just as pretty and you can actually understand the language  Seriously the TT is held right at the end of May. You could walk on the ferry and spend a day over there if you can't talk the wife into going (my wife loved the place) | ||
| Blake |
>>> IOM is just as pretty and you can actually understand the language Too funny. Reminds me of the Scotsman I met offshore in the Persian Gulf. I'd been up working for 24 hours straight and here comes this recent arrival on the rig talking some foreign language, or so I thought. I sighed and replied "I'm sorry, I only speak English." To which he responded all red-faced that "Oy'am schpeakin' bloody anglish!" LOL! The whole rest of his tour anytime he spoke he was met with laughter and, "sorry, could you repeat that in English?" | ||
| Jumbo_petite |
, IOM is just as pretty and you can actually understand the language You can understand Guy Martin. I love the guy and he's funny but it take some time to get into the pattern of his conversation | ||
| Blake |
Dave, You have a point, but I'd be interested to see your math showing that the IOM TT is equivalent to an entire season of MotoGP. It's definitely not comparable to a single event of MotoGP. It does seems like you cherry-picked your time period. Only four deaths in MotoGP in the last 21 years compared to over 80 for IOM. I tried to find the number of IOM competitors once, but could only guestimate it. Dave, the "filthy profit" is certainly not a problem. What is a problem is that they reap it at such a horrendous cost to those making it possible. It's the cost that is filthy. They want to profit, then they ought to share it with those putting their lives on the line. All of them. The purses are a joke are they not? | ||
| Davegess |
What I don't get is they understand us with no problem at all but it is all I can do to understand them. |
