| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240531119036 39404576516724218259688.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_re ad Common sense. | ||
| Fahren |
I don't watch Fox News (big surprise there, huh?), so it is funny how I hear so many of y'all's talking points parroted by Fox's talking heads. Here, in a very funny Jon Stewart sketch (had to pass it on): http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-18-20 11/world-of-class-warfare---the-poor-s-free-ride-i s-over?xrs=share_copy | ||
| Aesquire |
Love it! the Truth is that poor folk often pay more in taxes as a percentage of their income than rich folk..... They can't afford to bribe the politicians like Buffet does. They can't afford tax shelters, or to purchase taxable items in another country ( like Yachts ) or with a company to buy them tax free. Poor folk can't park their yacht in another state to avoid paying taxes on yacht parking. ( as a former Presidential Candidate did until caught... probably still does.... ) Poor folk also seldom hire people to do yard work, clean their homes, be nannies, etc. So the heck with them! They sure aren't helping the economy...... except. oooops! I almost forgot. Poor folk ARE responsible for millions of very good paying jobs. In govt. Millions and millions..... very good pay. Awesome benefits. Obviously we NEED MORE poor people to create more jobs! On that basis, Barack Obama is the most successful President since Hoover.  | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Holy shit!? Everyday joe shmo conservatives have the same ideas as conservatives on tv?! Wait a minute....this argument sounds a little familiar? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Odd that economic principles taught to me 20-30 years ago are somehow "talking points". | ||
| Blake |
>>> I don't watch Fox News Then it's no wonder you are so poorly informed.  | ||
| Reindog |
I read the New York Times occasionally even though it is only suitable for wrapping fish (hats off to MAD magazine). It is good to know what kind of reporting is practiced by the Left so that I can stay informed. If you don't watch Fox News, then the only question is: why? You might find the news organization top notch. Commentary tends to be Conservative (not always) but they don't hide that fact. Jon Stewart is a funny COMEDIAN, not a reporter as many people get confused by this fact. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Jon Stewart, like Colbert, wants to be socially relevant, to have an impact on the political discourse. Both, though, are cowards in that when the heat gets turned up, they shrink back to the "I'm just a comedian" defense. | ||
| Sifo |
I don't watch Fox News (big surprise there, huh?), so it is funny how I hear so many of y'all's talking points parroted by Fox's talking heads. Here, in a very funny Jon Stewart sketch (had to pass it on): Not hard to put together a montage like that from Fox News. The funny thing is that you could quite readily put together a montage of left wing talking points from Fox News also. They give plenty of time to any left winger who will come on and do their bit. I wish they could get more lefties on FN, but they know their ideas will get challenged (as happens with righties on FN too) and they don't seem to like that. The righties will simply explain the facts behind their talking points knowing it makes sense. The lefties... Well look at the Charlie Rangel thread! | ||
| Fahren |
"Poorly informed?" I'm very glad you put what I am going to consider a "JK" smilie after that. C'mon - OK, Murdoch uses Fox as a counter-balance to other, left-leaning press outlets. But that does not make it, in and of itself, "fair and balanced." As a counterbalance to the Left, by definition it must lean extremely to the Right. It's better to avoid Fox, and to avoid MSNBC. Better to seek out other, multiple, and more independent-minded diggers for truth. I believe it is important to look at where the news outlets are getting their source information. Heritage Foundation, Cato Institute, Americans for Prosperity (and many others who offer up spokespeople and "experts" to Fox and anyone else who will listen): founded and funded by billionaires, bent on self-enrichment under the guise of populist, libertarian movements. I have no problem with the Right putting money in to support their agendas; it's when the super-rich go to great efforts to mask their influence and gain "grassroots" supports from far less wealthy Americans by wrapping their self-serving, self-enrichment agenda in populist terms, especially when it comes to demonizing the poor and the disenfranchised "easy targets" - that's where I can't stomach it. http://www.observer.com/2010/daily-transom/how-lib ertarian-koch-bros-benefit-corporate-welfare http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Koch_Fa mily_Foundations http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/25/tea-party-koch-brothers http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/13/tea-party-billionaire-koch-brothers Jon Stewart is a comedian, yes. A funny one. Another guy I don't watch, though. But the funniest humor is based in truth. It's so sad to have to get broad, really balanced news stories, with experts from left and right interviewed, with multiple points of views, and valid criticisms of both sides, from abroad. A good example: (Message edited by fahren on August 24, 2011) | ||
| Sifo |
It's so sad to have to get broad, really balanced news stories, with experts from left and right interviewed, with multiple points of views, and valid criticisms of both sides, from abroad. You've just described what Fox News does. You wouldn't know it you don't watch it though. You have been told what Fox News does and have falsely believed it. There's a reason that they are the biggest cable news channel. | ||
| Fahren |
Sifo, I did look at the Rangel thread, and found the commentator to be slanted, discourteous, forcing words and a specific way of thinking into the discussion where it suited her point of view, and grating. To be fair, I know Maddow does this also. SS, DD. That's why I can't stomach either news outlet, and think that it only serves to distract Americans from working together for a better society. Way too much divisiveness - and who is best served by a people divided? Hint: it's not the people. | ||
| Sifo |
I do agree however that you need many sources of news. Any TV/Cable news just touches the surface of issues. | ||
| Fahren |
I have watched Fox. I have watched MSNBC. Enough of both to have an informed opinion, and, as in other areas, to depend not on hearsay, but on my own BS meter. This is why I do not watch them. Besides, I spend way too much time on Badweb to have time also for TV any more. I watched a great Little League World Series game last night on a tv in a bar, though :- ) | ||
| Fahren |
For a better understanding of where I am coming from with my negative attitude about TV not being a valid and appropriate outlet of news and information: http://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Disc ourse-Business/dp/014303653X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie =UTF8&qid=1314210940&sr=1-1 | ||
| Blake |
I've not watched TV period for about a year now. Just NetFlix. And some moto races at a buddy's place. The AP news is HORRIBLE. Almost every article of theirs that I read flunks basic journalism integrity. Injecting statements such as "some say" is a common means of injecting personal opinion into what should be hard factual news. But the news organizations tolerate it. The state of integrity in American mainstream journalism today is pathetic. Their complete and utter failure in vetting Obama is prima facia evidence #1. They did the same with Kerry, but he still lost the election. Meanwhile they made up and continually speculated about all sorts of negative stories about Bush. | ||
| Fahren |
One of the central issues in the Al Jazeera documentary piece is how Dem's and Repub's are equally beholden to Wall Street and Big Business, since both depend on so many dollars from these sources to fund elections. Hard to find much coverage of this issue here at home. This is such an important point to understand! However, it is so ignored or pushed aside by coverage blue/Red bickering over details about debt ceiling compromises, budget plans, and playing the blame game, seeking easy culprits and easy solutions where there are no easy ways out of the mess. | ||
| Blake |
How much did big business contribute to Obama and McCain? Call me skeptical, but I'd just kinda like to see the actual numbers. My bet is that the al jazeera video didn't report any. Am I right? I don't care to waste 25 minutes watching it, sorry. | ||
| Court |
I'm working my way toward not voting for a candidate who takes contributions from large business. They need to be hiring with those millions of $$. | ||
| Mtjm2 |
GE is taking those millions overseas ! Big tax break , White house appointment ? Any questions ? | ||
| Sifo |
One of the central issues in the Al Jazeera documentary piece is how Dem's and Repub's are equally beholden to Wall Street and Big Business, since both depend on so many dollars from these sources to fund elections. Hard to find much coverage of this issue here at home. I wonder who would be more likely to deny that both parties are beholden to Wall Street? Viewers of Fox News or viewers of MSNBC? Do you really think that Al Jazeera doesn't have their own slant too? | ||
| Blake |
Mark, You forgot about "get big gov't contracts" and "get business subsidized by gov't". GE builds windmill generators. | ||
| Reepicheep |
So? Why should people who are rich have more of their money forcibly taken then people who are poor? Is being rich is evil, such that people should be punished for it to discourage it from happening again... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
the Truth is that poor folk often pay more in taxes as a percentage of their income than rich folk. Please justify this "truth" with a citing. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
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| Court |
How about ...... Marginal tax rate goes down as income rises. If you want to pay less tax .. You worker harder, bolster your education and the richer you get the less you pay. With this motivation folks will strive, to lessen their tax burden, to get wealthier. Before you k is it the poor will be nothing but a chapter Ina history book. | ||
| Kenm123t |
COURT COURT wont ever happen that way you used the ultimate curse to libprogs even more hated than referencing Jesus WORK ! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
WORK = Independence and Self Reliance POVERTY = Dependence and Controllability They figured out a long time ago that you need to create programs that have the appearance of bringing people out of poverty without actually solving any problems or doing anything. Just like the unemployment benefits discussion that is going to be hitting the headlines again. Progressives will say that it is the surest, most direct way to create jobs while denying the obvious economics: Unemployment benefits prevent job creation and create a permanent dependent class. Employers have gotten wise. They are refusing to hire people on unemployment benefits in favor of those who are willing to get a job, any job, to avoid being on unemployment benefits. They are viewing new hire selection as a "If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem" situation. They would rather hire someone currently employed but underemployed over someone on unemployment benefits. | ||
| Court |
There are elements of truth to that but likely not the ones referred and not intentionally. When I was getting my degree in Economics ('77) I had to do a paper about thesis a Harvard student had written entitled "The Poor Pay and Pay". The premise was that folks in low income brackets pay hugely disproportionate amounts in terms of sales taxes on the most taxed items like cigarettes and alcohol. In addition, they pay nearly usurious credit card fees and frequently late payments. Be mindful that these things are a "facts" not "fouls". No one intentionally made a great proportion of poor folks smoke; it's more a lack of education. The premise, at least, was that better educated folks smoke less, abuse alcohol less and have more competitive credit rates and pay fewer late fees. But . . .that was 30 some years ago . . perhaps the wonderfully effective federally paid programs to advertise the dangers of smoking have driven the less fortunate among us to see the light and benefit from the realized economies. Who knows? I don't trust any of these decisions to politicians. We deserve better leaders. By the way . . .that "the poor pay more" is (as has been alluded to by the request for cite) more often a baseless rallying cry meant to tug on heart strings, than a statement of fact. | ||
| Lostartist |
if you lower the tax rate for the rich the total revenue for the country goes to shit. you can't increase taxes enough of the rest of us to make up the lost income. that's the bottom line. it doesn't justify the inequity of the system, but that's what it is. you could tax all the people at the bottom 20% percentile from the chart above 100% of their income and probably not even have enough to even start to cover the Defense budget alone. if we can reduce spending then we can reduce taxes. trickle down hasn't worked. The rich are as dependent on their tax shelters and tax cuts as the poor are on welfare and other assistance programs. could it be that the rich would invest more, hire more and create more jobs if they were taxed more, because they want to stay rich. so they are going to have to work harder and find new ways to create wealth, and they have the initial capital to invest to do so. they aren't going to look at a welfare recipients life and go, "yup, that's the life I want, all that for free baby!" This is not to excuse the poor from not working harder to make something of themselves and that government needs to restructure programs to make them a real hand up instead of the hand outs they are.  |
