>>> I must be stupid.... or slow... but I just can't understand what is so hard to grasp... you take in X amount in taxes.... that's all you get to spend.
If your goal is to bring America down in order to "fundamentally change" it into your dreamed of socialist utopia, you'd be all for the Cloward-Piven strategy. You'd work for ACORN; you'd embrace the teachings of Saul Alinsky; you'd feel the need to apologize for the greatest force for freedom the world has ever seen.
First promoted in 1966 by Marxist Columbia University professors Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, the Cloward-Piven Strategy aims to destroy capitalism in America by expanding the welfare system to unsustainable levels, collapsing the economy and then ushering in full-blown socialism, nationalizing large sectors of private industry.
They don't try to hide their evil agenda. In an article for the Nation magazine, The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty, Marxist professors Cloward and Piven defined in detail the kind of "crisis" they sought to create:
quote:
By crisis, we mean a publicly visible disruption in some institutional sphere. Crisis can occur spontaneously (e.g., riots) or as the intended result of tactics of demonstration and protest which either generate institutional disruption or bring unrecognized disruption to public attention.
No matter where the strategy is implemented, it shares the following features:
* The offensive organizes previously unorganized groups eligible for government benefits but not currently receiving all they can.
* The offensive seeks to identify new beneficiaries and/or create new benefits.
* The overarching aim is always to impose new stresses on target systems, with the ultimate goal of forcing their collapse.
What do you think he means by "spread the wealth around"?
What do you think he was doing as a "community organizer" pushing banks to grant loans to the unqualified, what ended up being the cause of the current financial crisis. He had help from his fellow "Progressives" in congress and a slew of corrupt bankers at fannie mae and freddie mac, and a slew of greed mortgagers taking feed and reselling with gov't backed guarantees.
Why do you think he's killing our manned space program?
Why do you think he rammed his socialized health care program down our throats?
Another quote from the Marxist ivory tower of Cloward-Piven...
quote:
Local protests have to accumulate and spread—and become more disruptive— to create serious pressures on national politicians. An effective movement of the unemployed will have to look something like the strikes and riots that have spread across Greece in response to the austerity measures forced on the Greek government by the European Union, or like the student protests that recently spread with lightning speed across England in response to the prospect of greatly increased school fees.
Shades of Wisconsin? Labor unions from around the country were bussed in to oppose a reduction in the lavish benefits provided to gov't employees of the state. The horror that they would have to pay a small percentage of their own health care. But you cannot bankrupt a gov't with that kind of responsible policy.
What cut in any of our massive entitlement programs has Obama proposed to help reduce our massive deficit? Answer: None. Instead he's done the exact opposite, actually grown government entitlements, approved a near trillion dollar "stimulus" that has flat out failed miserably and entirely. Orchestrated more gov't give-aways like "cash for clunkers", and "cash for caulkers."
Charles Krautheimer nails it...
quote:
Published: July 14
President Obama is demanding a big long-term budget deal. He won’t sign anything less, he warns, asking, "If not now, when?"
How about last December, when he ignored his own debt commission’s recommendations? How about February, when he presented a budget that increases debt by $10 trillion over the next decade? How about April, when he sought a debt-ceiling increase with zero debt reduction attached?
All of a sudden he’s a born-again budget balancer prepared to bravely take on his own party by making deep cuts in entitlements. Really? Name one. He’s been saying forever that he’s prepared to discuss, engage, converse about entitlement cuts. But never once has he publicly proposed a single structural change to any entitlement.
The man appointed Van Jones, a freely admitted communist revolutionary, to be his Green Jobs Czar. Here's what comrade Jones said about his goals for green jobs in America...
quote:
Right now we’re saying we want to move from suicidal gray capitalism to some kind of co-capitalism….Will that be enough? No, it won’t be enough. We want to go beyond systems of exploitation and oppression all together. But that’s a process.
And I think what’s great about the movement that’s beginning to emerge is that the crisis is so severe… The Green economy will start off as a subset, and we’re going to push it and push it and push it until it becomes the engine for transforming the whole society.
America has something like 1/4th of the entire world's supply of coal. That's a huge energy resource that should benefit Americans, yes? We can't have that.
The lack of imagination is almost always the root of failure. In our case now, it is out unwillingness to imagine that there are indeed people who would very much like to bring down America in order to "fundamentally transform" it into something much much different. Most Americans just can't imagine such insidious evil exists. But it does exist.
you will notice that when they talk about 'redistribute' the wealth; it is never their own.
The new USPHS Commissioned Corps goes live FY 2012; they are charted as a national, ARMED, civil disobedience, epidemic, pandemic, natural disaster response and tasked with administration, registration and logistics for NATIONAL FEMA/CDC collection'distribution' points. Resilience has just loaded its self into the chamber, and only needs a 'disaster' to launch.... look for one right around election time.
Watch the video. It pretty much sums up the problem with so-called entitlements. If you for a minute think that aid to poor people gets them off welfare you are stark raving mad. Period.
"In our case now, it is out unwillingness to imagine that there are indeed people who would very much like to bring down America in order to "fundamentally transform" it into something much much different."
I don't disagree that people like this exist, but I do find it odd that you think a president with relatively centrist views is the embodiment of that movement. Remember that the far left aren't happy with Obama either, because they say his policies aren't liberal enough.
The far right (and with your conspiracy theory posts above, I've got to believe you would self identify as far right) thinks everything left of center is communist.
There was a time when republicans and democrats could disagree on policy without calling each other idiots. I guess that day has gone away with 24 hour news and Glenn Beck and Keith Oberman telling us what the other side REALLY believes.
Sounds like some of you need to have lunch with a friend or family member who you know and trust and who happens to be a liberal so that you can remind yourselves that those people are decent americans who want the best for their country, just like you do.
Strokizator: Not so much. I pay my taxes. I just view them differently than you do. I think they pay for my security, and you apparently think that the fact that they exist at all is larceny.
Taxes are lower in afghanistan than they are here, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Listen, I'm not making this stuff up. A system called DW-Nominate, developed by a group of six political scientists, rates politicians on a scale from negative 1 (very liberal) to positive 1 (very conservative).
Obama scores a negative .399. To put that in perspective, going all the way back to Roosevelt, there have only been two presidents who scored closer to zero (which is as centrist as it comes). They were Eisenhower (positive .302) and Johnson (negative .335). The most liberal was Carter (negative .539) and the most conservative was G.W. Bush (positive .723).
You guys think Obama is the second coming of Marx, but there is no basis to it. You are being sold by the talking heads and don't even know it.
Blake - Most Americans just can't imagine such insidious evil exists. But it does exist.
I believe you are 100% correct with that statement. I also suspect you are looking in the wrong direction for the source of the evil.
If you want to explore evil conspiracies within our government, I think you should look closer to home. The Bush family you like to defend has a shady family tree.
Honolulu you are spot on but you won't get much traction here. Many of these guys think he is just short of Karl Marx. These guys don't know any real lefties, most of my lefty friends consider him a sellout to the right and a danger to all that is progressive.
I'm one of those sick people who actually enjoys pounding my head agains a wall from time to time.
Say what you want about this group, I sure appreciate that they can bash each other on one thread and then tell each other how to fix their bikes on the other . Plus, I really dig all the clip-art possibilities.
After my last post, I have an image of my head of Blake furiously googling for a conservative think tank study showing just how liberal BHO really is!
I have friends in San Francisco who abhor Obama because he is too "Conservative", so I know what you speak of. I have actually been thrown out of the apartment of a friend of over thirty years because I didn't want to talk about his ultra Left-wing politics. I felt like the guy at the end of The Blair Witch Project who was facing the wall. He later apologized but I thought it was kind of silly.
Some on the "far right" believe that Barack is deliberately trying to turn America into a Marxist dictatorship.
They have lots of documentation in the President's own words, and the people he appoints to power who think Mao is a great philosopher. ( and ignore, or deny his rightful place as the greatest mass murderer in history ) Openly Communist Revolutionaries, proponents of eugenics, concentration camps, and absolute power. I can show you video's.
Even some who think that "Obama as marxist thug" is just not the case are beginning to wonder as he passes from "perhaps just an incompetent ideologue" into "narcissistic mental illness" on his way to "worse than Jimmy Carter".
Myself, I'm not sure. He shows many of the signs of mental illness, but he's got to deal with Congress, which any rational person might be driven mad by. ( who DIDN'T laugh at that scene in Mars Attacks? )
He is for certain way left of ME, who Blake (probably) considers a social liberal loon, with my attitude that when it comes to sex, drugs, rock and roll and freedoms of speech that government involvement ranges from "none of your business" to "none of your fraking business".
I'm also in the camp that actually studies history, ( though my specialty is 10th through 21st century military and agricultural technology, not economics... though the Cloward/Piven stuff is familiar to me. Blake actually understates their writing ) and keep certain concepts to heart. like "Never Again" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_for_t he_Jews
I once asked my father, what if "they" come for the jews again? What if it's another group that is being oppressed by a government? His response was simple and fed by a lifetime of experiences I shall never have. "if they come for anyone, stop them."
Are they coming for you? let us know.
Many thought Bush was going to make America a right wing Christian theocracy. Didn't happen. Some were afraid Clinton would use a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire moment to seize power indefinitely. ( the Oklahoma Federal building bombing gave many a moment of "is this it?" ) Didn't happen.
Barack Obama, though.... we're all getting a little uneasy about him. The lefties are quite right to be concerned, as he seems to have made quite a bit of money giving YOUR money to wall street firms that give him money. The fact that he will within days of accepting vast "contributions" from a company turn and blame them for all the ills of mankind, just shows he's not an honest politician, he doesn't stay bought. ( yeah, that's pretty cynical. Who was talking Bush and the Saudis? Or Carter and his Arab buddies? Or Clinton and his multi-hundred thousand dollar speaking fees in the mideast? .....)
He is the mouthpiece for it, I doubt he has ever read Marx, we should not be surprised coming from a committee or representatives and senators that have a penchant for not reading what they are passing into law at 2600 pages at a time (three times in the past year) They are mealiy mucking about and fiddlefaddling with meet and greets with Justin Beiber and thinking it is 'inspiring'
I would trust Romper Room to garner more politcal, economic and transformative 'change' than the current administration.
And you can tell he isnt a MARXIST; he cant even f'n manage to get the basics of the dialectic straight. (if he figures that out- we are all indeed fqrd)
Left, right, center, whatever. Obama is a pathological liar who won't keep a promise, or stand by a principle if it causes trouble for his own personal agenda.
I find him marginally entertaining. He's likely the least, or at least up in the top 5, person to ever hold the job.
It sometimes makes me think of a blind man in the cockpit of a 747 ...... He's frantically flipping switches, turning dials and moving levers .. All to no avail.
The more he " leads" ( hahaha ) the worse things get.
Sometimes ..... Just as I think I can laugh no more he slips into that " I inherited" stupidity and blames Bush and I laugh uncontrollably.
The next person will have e no shortage of epic disaster, largely created, to blame on the big o. The guy really is a smooth talking idiot. His saving grace is that he's entertaining and I believe he truly believes some of this crap.
I just want to understand this: You think the man's own words are simply inventions of some right wing conspiracy theorists? Do you think they were taken out of context?
Hootowl: Its been a while since I've visited the thread, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. Who is "the man" and what words are we talking about?
My guess is you are talking about the Obama quote from when he was a Senator talking about failure of leadership etc. But I must be wrong because I can't figure out what I said that makes you think that I think they are "inventions of a right wing conspiracy theorist."
- But I must be wrong because I can't figure out what I said that makes you think that I think they are "inventions of a right wing conspiracy theorist."
And from your previous post...
"The far right (and with your conspiracy theory posts above, I've got to believe you would self identify as far right) thinks everything left of center is communist."
Obama's own words are what the "conspiracy theory" righ twing nuts are mulling over when they call him a socialist bent on destroying America's financial system from within.
Again, what words are you talking about? I can't very well tell you whether I think they are being taken out of context without knowing (1) what the words were; and (2) what their context was.
and then tell each other how to fix their bikes on the other 
. Plus, I really dig all the clip-art possibilities. 
)