| Author | Message | ||
     Cliffburton |
Ok. Where did the picture of the bike come from? Is that Buell's concept,or some one elses? Just curious.Is it a fan made pic? I told myself I wasnt buying anymore motorcycles.But if he builds this thing,I will seriously have to start saving my pennies.How many years before we see a production model? Anyone want to guess at a price? | ||
| Court |
That's someone else's. Someone tossed it out in the internet years ago.  (Message edited by court on February 23, 2011) | ||
| Cliffburton |
I seem to remember a lot of the R&D work was done years ago but shelved to concentrate on the 1125R. Does anyone think Erik would use that older material, or start from scratch? I Wonder if he would take an Alembic bass as a down payment? | ||
| Boltrider |
They might do what they did with the 1190 RS - take previous ideas and modify/improve them. The Rooster could be for the new version what the B2 was for the 1190RS. But what would they call it? | ||
| Etennuly |
For the riding I do, I would be in line to buy a Buell dirt bike way before a buying a crotch rocket. I will wait patiently to see if there comes a Uly replacement, but I would buy a dirt squirter asap. | ||
| Al_lighton |
There is a little bit of "insider" info from a couple of the dirt bike development folks revealed in a thread here: http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Buel l-MX450f-revealed-a-little,783435?page=1 Probably not a lot to get them in trouble, but a couple of little tidbits about what could have been. Two guys in that thread, Ozzy and Freeh, worked on the bike. I have no way to validate anything they've written there, but it was interesting reading nonetheless. I hope something like it eventually comes to market. That kind of bike would really appeal to me. I'm more of an XR/DRZ kinda guy (I have an XR400 and a newly acquired DRZ-400E that's been dual sported) than a CRF/YZ/RM kinda guy. Torque and reliability are more important for the kinda dirt riding I do than speed/lightness/explosive power. At 52, I'm not likely to be doing doubles and triples any time soon. Al | ||
| Slaughter |
I'm with Al on the - the only doubles and triples that I do are espresso. | ||
| Etennuly |
At 52, I'm not likely to be doing doubles and triples any time soon. At 53 I have been shying away from that also, but a dependable on off road 450 would be a good fit. | ||
| Slaughter |
Hey - I'm not too far from 58. Dirt roads and dual sports are kewl... road racing is kewl but if I found a true Buell dual sport, I'd FIND a way to get the money. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
There are so many ways Erik Buell Racing can go once it takes off. That is to say, after this race season. In my world, the future looks very bright and I thank Erik and his Elves for that. Things would be a little dim without that shining glimmer of hope. GO ERIK BUELL RACING!! | ||
| 86129squids |
What Vern said. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
just dont make the thing with a 36 in high seat height, I already have one of those I wish my parents had decided to shag in VW bus instead of the beetle, I dont think those swimmers had time to stretch. friggen 28 inch inseam. bad enough I got no verticle leap | ||
| Ezblast |
All I can think is that motor in the track racing geared for the 450cc class - a full-fared ultra-light single with suspension built for the twisties - that's my idea of a great daily rider. An 1190 on the weekends wouldn't be bad either. - lol EZ | ||
| Elvis |
I'm with you, EZ. I always loved the Yamaha 2 stroke 350's and I'd like to see a modern interpretation of that:     | ||
| Buelldirtbiker |
The concept shown in this thread is the original Griffin project started at Buell. Court is implying that it is owned by HD, i.e. someone else. The project evolved quite a bit in a very short time and the last concepts I saw looked way better than that thing. The engine is currently being used in the Bombardier DS450 sport quad. It was originally developed for the quad application, although Erik was involved with Bombardier early to keep a dirtbike in mind during their development. The program had a lot of potential. FUHD! Oh, and that Freeh guy knows what he is talking about  (Message edited by buelldirtbiker on February 24, 2011) | ||
| 86129squids |
Elvis- I got a chubby just looking at that RZ- I had one once, bored .20 over, Boyesen reeds, Spec II pipes, steering dampener, 1 tooth smaller front sprocket- damn thing was a ROCKET!!! Sold it due to the black box problem that particular model was plagued with... Waaahhh. I miss my 2smoker! | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'll wait. I just rebuilt my 95 KDX from the ground up, so it's good for another 10 years easy. | ||
| Court |
>>>Court is implying that it is owned by HD No implication. It was owned by Harley-Davidson. The project did move quote a bit further and I was fortunate to be able to collect plenty of historical information, photos and details before the stuff was trashed. I think Harley-Davidson missed a great opportunity. I also think wiser folks, reflecting on the data HD cited to extinguish the program, discovered some interesting things. They are gone but their legacy and their hard work and dedication survives. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I read that other forum that was listed here. Im curious if anyone saved any of the pictures from the liquidation company. The other thread states some of the pictures show some of the parts from this project, I'd love to go back and look at those pictures | ||
| Glitch |
Proof of concept bikes still exist and are in the hands of a friendly individual, or so I've been told  | ||
| Mikef5000 |
A beastly thumper sounds like so much fun in so many forms! Mini-race replica sportbike. Super-Moto, and street legal dirt-bike all tickle my fancy! Of course I'd still need my 100+hp 2-up tourer. | ||
| Crackhead |
"No implication. It was owned by Harley-Davidson. " SO....MR... Court....who owns it now? | ||
| Buelldirtbiker |
Court - I hope you are not referring to the "leader" of the Griffin project. He had no passion for dirtbikes and no business leading any program. Cronyism at its worst really. | ||
| Anonymous |
Egos needed to be left at the door... Unfortunately this was hard for many to do. It's funny how anyone with an opinion other than your own has an "ego". The reality of the bike as it evolved showed many of the opinions and biases that people brought in the door to be wrong. Like all products, nothing is perfect for everyone, but this bike would have made a lot of riders happy. It would have been been lighter than a Honda, yet more durable and with electric start and fuel injection. Those were the key goals, and when you start with a heavier motor (needed for durability and due to EFI and starter) and a battery needed, you have to be out of the box with other parts of the design in order to meet weight and performance targets. It's amazing how many people fight against change, and do so from a position of ignorance. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
It's amazing how many people fight against change, and do so from a position of ignorance. That is true in sooo many aspects of life. The one's that will slow down long enough to listen and think about what they are being told deserve a tip of the cap.....even if they ultimately disagree at least they are making their decision from a better position. | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
I think the dirt bike project would have reached more "good ole boy" HD type riders than the sportbikes ever did. I'm speaking as a kid raised in the south. I'll affectionately refer to my people as rednecks. Rednecks love four-wheelers, 4-wheel drives, and Harley Davidsons. They are proud to own anything made in the USA. If HD made something they could ride in the mud they would snatch it up. Hell, I've seen more than one HD-Edition F150 with a lift kit and giant mudder tires. Also seeing how a dirt bike would be more affordable than most HD's it would have a better market for rural america who often don't have a lot of income but have a hell of a lot of land to ride around on. It would have also brought in a large youth group when the kids of die hard HD families wanted to get a first bike. If the Execs at HD had a lick of sense they would revive the dirt-bike project under the HD banner. I'm sure it'd piss off a lot of the Buell Supporters, myself included, but it would be good for the MoCo. Ofcourse under current management I'm sure they would end up ruining the bike and it would become a laughing stock of the dirtbike world. that's what essentially happened to Buell. Simply being associated with HD plus the restrictions forced upon them my the MoCo kept Buell from ever being taken seriously in the Sportbike world no matter how well they did. (Message edited by not_purple_s2 on February 25, 2011) | ||
| Buelldirtbiker |
Ego. You mean the guy who manages the team that won the last Supercross race? Yeah, I can't see why he would have an ego about a sport he has lived and breathed for 30 years, rider wins and championships aside. All the comments about a position of ignorance could be directed right back at you when it comes to dirt bikes. But that being said, my point was that there was no good leadership for the program, and that made everything that much harder to succeed. And Honda is not the benchmark for durability for a 450. Yamaha is. The bike could have been successful though. It certainly had potential. I was one of only a few people that rode the cobbled together test mule. I would have loved the opportunity to ride a POC bike with the actual design intent frame. Then we would have known where we really stood with the program. | ||
| Blake |
"there was no good leadership for the program" Ever lead a major new challenging product development effort? It can be a life changing experience. It's way too easy for some of us to criticize. Should we try walking in those shoes once, our attitudes might change. If we aren't part of the solution, we are likely part of the problem. I really appreciated Dave O's post on the VitalMX forum: Quote..."MXTR"... : The above conveys EXACTLY why I have so little tolerance for the mean spirited naysayers and indignant critics here. Small minds with no idea of what it takes to actually create, build and achieve success in today's unbelievably brutally competitive commercial motorcycle market. I don't care how experienced or accomplished someone might be; if they let their ego trample the spirit of fellow team members, they are a problem. Not everyone has the strength to stand their ground against such people, especially if they are in leadership positions. Those who do are doubly valuable. "All the comments about a position of ignorance could be directed right back at you when it comes to dirt bikes." That depends on who you think you are talking to. You sound angry and confrontational. The way to convey opposition to an idea/proposal is to lay out a convincing presentation of why it is a problem, then discuss it's pros and cons. Just calling it a POS, is unlikely to convince thoughtful minds; it's more likely to build walls and create dissension in the ranks. I hope we get a chance to see an American dirt bike again, and that it will be successful. | ||
| Court |
That's all I was trying to convey. As I interviewed folks to learn about the Griffin program I saw the passion. Even within the general heading of "motorcycles", each niche evokes it's own unique passion. Dirt bikes are no different. I got a sense of some of what worked, what didn't and what may have helped. I also came away with the impression that some folks, even intimately embroiled in the program, weren't privy to all the information, financial, marketing and . . .. yes, political, that was going to and fro between HD and Buell. I've subsequently learned that some of it could have used further study. Many folks know far more now than they did while this program was underway, along with 20 other initiatives and a Harley-Davidson, who was making the final calls, that was, for the first time in decades, falling like a rock financially and in the process of replacing nearly all of their executives. Challenging doesn't begin to describe it. I feel fortunate, shortly before the last copies were snuffed, to have had a chance to see some of the brilliant work these folks had done. I'm not sure I've interviewed all of them yet . . but eventually . . . I'll track them down. One way or another . . . . very cool stuff. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Sport Single please...nice wide 17" wheels and quality adjustable suspension, good brakes....seat height 30" or less, please....I have my checkbook out. |
