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Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 09:44 pm: | 
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If their goal was was to say "we think plug in hybrids are great" they should have just put on a sticker that says "we think hybrids are great". Not made up numbers to try and say "we think hybrids are great". |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 03:07 pm: |
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But Bill, you know compulsive liars can't help themselves, especially not when their goals include "changing social norms", and "creating dramatic shifts in social change and influencing product preference." |
Sayitaintso
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 03:32 pm: |
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The Volt uses 36 Kw-hours per 100 miles. It says so right on the EPA sticker.
Ok, I rode the short bus to school and want to see if I understand this right.... it needs to be drawn out in crayons.
It takes 36kwh to go 100 miles with the volt on electric only.
I'm on a program though the utility with variable rates based on time of day where I only pay 8 cents per kw in the evenings and weekends.
Its about 20 miles round trip to work and back.
Does all that put together mean that it would cost me about 58 cents to commute everyday with a Volt?
100/36 = .36 per mile
.36*20 = 7.2 kw per day
7.2*.08 = .57 cents per day?
My truck uses about 1.5 gallons of gas a day to commute, and my uly uses about 1/2 a gallon per day. So at say 3.00 per gallon it would be either 4.50 with the truck or 1.50 with the Uly.
Does this make sense or am I screwing something up with the kw vs. kwh?
Edit: Is there a factor that should be included for loss during the charging of the batteries....85% efficient
(Message edited by sayitaintso on March 02, 2011) |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 08:09 pm: |
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Your 20 mile commute is perfect for the Volt. My 30 mile, isn't. ( I won't criticize the math.... I don't recall if kw & kwh are the same on your bill. )
The KWH per 100 mile ratio seems a good standard to compare electrics. I wonder what that is for a Leaf?
It's unfair, but interesting, to compare the Leaf and Volt. Prius and Volt is closer in nature, but they are trying hard not to make that comparison, for marketing reasons.
Still interesting to compare the relative efficiencies of the choices in cars.
So.... Leaf, Volt, Prius, Ford Fiesta, VW Golf TDI.
Electric, Plug in Hybrid, Hybrid, gas, diesel.
I'd say thats a good cross section of cars to compare. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 09:25 pm: |
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I think you have got it correct Dennis.
Until you hit point where the battery pack needs replaced. Then you'll have to pay a bit more I assume. Shouldn't be enough to wipe out the savings though. But maybe the purchase price might when compared to an econo-car, not to mention one that can heat and cool the cabin effectively. |
2008xb12scg
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2011 - 09:41 pm: |
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Is there any fair way to compair that the average Joe could understand. MPG it's easy to understand. Not to worried about the enviromental impact as much as the impact on the wallet. What if it were DPG. Dollars per gallon. Though that doesn't work as that always changes. This is why we're still on the SAE we're not good at easy things, even if they are way easier like the metric system, we just don't do new well... |
Glitch
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 05:03 am: |
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Until you hit point where the battery pack needs replaced. Then you'll have to pay a bit more I assume.
It'll be interesting to see how much they'll charge you to take an old battery off your hands.
It's hazardous waste, so you know there'll be a disposal fee, no wait, we're being green, there'll be a recycling fee. |
Sayitaintso
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 08:06 am: |
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Thanks guys,
For me it would probably still be a no go on a Volt because I'd hate to commute without a/c in April, May, June, July August, September, or October.
It seems to me they should show two different mileage numbers. One for mile per kwh, until the batteries are drained, and a second where the gas kicks in. No matter what is used its going to be confusing unless you get into it and decipher whats going on and what games are being played.
Similar to the "old" mileage numbers that were shown. I know I've never consistently gotten the mileage shown a sticker of any car or truck I've ever bought. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 03:38 pm: |
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Relevant article on the Kneeslider:
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/03/03/elect ric-vehicles-meet-the-public/ |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 08:16 pm: |
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Toyota Prius...Mileage estimates (mpg city/highway/combined) 51/48/50
Ford Fiesta..28 city/37 hwy/32 combined (manual) 29 city/38 hwy/33 combined (automatic)
VW Golf TDI are 30 city / 42 highway automatic 30 / 41 manual.
(Message edited by aesquire on March 05, 2011) |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 09:33 pm: |
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Just for hell of it, the Chevy Cruze is built on the same platform as the Volt, so its as close as you can get to a gas only Volt and would be better for comparisons
Chevrolet Cruze Eco 4 cyl, 1.4 L, Manual 6-spd, Regular fuel - 28 city, 42 hwy, 33 combined.
Chevrolet Cruze Eco 4 cyl, 1.4 L, Automatic (S6), Regular fuel - 26 city, 37 hwy, 30 combined.
There is also the non Eco versions that has lower fuel economy.
The Volt has a bit of a weight penalty from having the electric motor and battery pack |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2011 - 10:10 pm: |
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Hmmm. The Fiesta and the VW both have dual clutch ( very fast shifting ) computer controlled autos, and get better mileage than the manuals. The Cruze with a regular auto, is the ( normal ) opposite.
Some nice tricks on the Cruze, too, like the lower front air vents that close to reduce drag at higher speeds. I see the ECO version has taller gearing and other tricks to boost mileage.
Also note the Leaf uses 34KW-hrs per hundred miles, and the Volt 36. ( with the lights and heaters off ) I can't tell if the Volt looks good against the all electric in power consumption..... at least until there is something else to compare it to. ( the Leaf SHOULD be better in electric mode. No gas engine stuff to haul around ) |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 06:50 am: |
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http://www.tomsguide.com/us/cadillac-escalade-esca lade-hybrid-hybrid-car-electric-car,news-10452.htm l
Hypermiling an Escalade hybrid.
I don't play that game in commuting. You have to be massively inconsiderate to hypermile in any traffic. Get shot inconsiderate. ( and you'd deserve it.) Still, at midnight on the way home with little time pressure..... coast away!
I anticipate seeing folk driving 50mph as gas goes upwards of $5. ( Diesel is already most of the way there in NY ) |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 09:28 am: |
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On a personal note, I have a VW TDI, and live very close to work. I currently have 3/8th of a tank of fuel, and the last time I filled up was the 8th of February, 5 weeks ago. I'm getting around 42 MPG. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 04:39 am: |
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Disciplined myself to 60-65 MPH on a recent all highway round trip, Kilgore to Grand Prairie and back. The F250 4x4 diesel made 23 MPG. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 12:40 pm: |
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Blake, if you have cruise control, use it. Since Texas is pretty flat it works great for preventing you from getting a lead foot. Speeding up and then slowing down wastes fuel, so keeping a constant speed will help. Also, try doing 50-55mph. The max fuel economy sweetspot varies by car, but usually is around 50-55. Throw a few more pounds of air in the tires too. I bet you can get a little shy of 30 MPG without any effort. |
Bigdaddy
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 10:58 pm: |
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@Froggy My CR-Z is knocking down 45MPG in ECO mode and running 60. Reading the forums it would seem that I may be at, or near, the top of ROI for saving fuel. Advice?
The little go-kart is surprisingly comfortable FWIW  |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 11:04 pm: |
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Is it a stick? You can do fantastic with pulse and glide on a hybrid. I've personally done 43mpg on a Cobalt stick, and 85mpg on a Prius. I'm sure I can best your 45 if I got my hands on it, but from what I've heard on other auto websites it doesn't do as good as other hybrids. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 07:59 am: |
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What you CAN get hypermiling is interesting, but using those techniques in traffic is rude.
Froggy's right, the sweet spot varies from car to car with gearing & torque curves, but 50-55 seems to be it. Just don't play Sammy Hagar. |
Bigdaddy
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 08:35 am: |
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It is the automatic. I had to Google "pulse and glide" and uh, well, uh, I'll just stick with my 45mpg. That is way too much work...I need different advice 
I only use it on Fridays and Sundays so come on down and hypermile it all you want. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 12:07 pm: |
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http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518 ,751469,00.html
Bigdaddy, most mypermiling techniques would, if you were following the bozo doing them, make you angry. They are fine in the vacuum of a lonely country drive, but in any traffic, they are rude, dangerous, and cause the people around them to use MORE gas as they avoid their inconsiderate moves.
There are 2 kinds of speed in traffic. ( top speed doesn't usually matter.)
How hard you accelerate to your chosen cruise speed.
Your chosen cruise speed.
I prefer to get to my chosen speed quickly. My chosen speed is usually fairly conservative. Usually 5-7 over the limit, tops. But I'll cruise control at that speed, and be very consistent.
If you are a slow accelerator, but drive 10 over, if you're front of me, I'll be annoyed at you until you finally pull away. If I'm ahead, you will be annoyed when you finally catch up.
Hopefully, you'll have a safe place to pass. & I won't pass you during your turtle phase.
You can figure out the other combinations of speed & traffic. Or you shouldn't drive.
Many people out there don't choose a speed. Their balls run their foot. ( the guys that speed up when you go to pass ) They are morons. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2011 - 03:49 am: |
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I usually use cruise control, until hitting city traffic.
Doing 50-55 MPH on I-20 in Texas would be dangerous and inconsiderate causing untold number of big rigs to slam on the brakes. 60-65 is a good compromise.
Plus I don't think I could tolerate going so slowly. I just don't have it in me. Way to impatient. Maybe if fuel goes to $5/gal. |
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