| Author | Message | ||
     Xl1200r |
No time like the present, huh? Only going to get harder as I get older. I spend 40 hours a week in a cubicle for a giant, old major corporation making good money but hardly ever busy and almost never challenged or fulfilled. It's getting old. This all as a result of a complicated course of events that left me with a degree in management. Before that it was supposed to be engineering. Before that, industrial design, and before that - my first love - aviation. I'm thinking of going to flight school, but I have no interest in being a commercial jumbo jet pilot - I want to be able to local and home most every night, so at most it would be charter flights. Normal career path would have me as a flight instructor, and probably making something like half what I do now. That's the kicker... thousands of dollars in training, on top of student loans I already have, to make considerably less money, but be much happier doing it. It would take a lot of dedication and likely a change in lifestyle, but I'm thinking this would be worth it for me in the long run. Has anyone made a switch as drastic as this in the past? How did it turn out? Glad you did it? I've got some more research to do, but at this point I'm giving this some serious thought. | ||
| Kc10_fe |
Before you go crazy on the aviation route: 4 year degree for the majors ATP required for the bigguns You need at least 1500 hours for the ATP Private pilots will run you about $5000ish Insturment rating with multi engine is much more. CFI-CFII MEI and ATP will run you about $30-40K. There will be a huge shortage of qualified pilots soon. Aviation just keeps on getting bigger. What will happen with pay is yet to be seen. The guys out busting ass flying turbo props for American Delta Conti dont make what you think. (Message edited by kc10_fe on November 14, 2010) | ||
| Brinnutz |
I say keep the current job that pays well and get your private pilot's license > instrument rating > multi-engine rating > commercial and just do charters on the side if you can get a job flying someone's plane. Me, well I've got my first solo cross country flight tomorrow morning. Oh, and Kc10, add a couple more g's to that $5000 for the private pilot... (Message edited by brinnutz on November 14, 2010) | ||
| Drfudd |
while the logical decision is to keep your job, nobody can argue with you following your dream | ||
| Motorcyclemike |
I changed my career six months ago. Went from employed to unemployed, best thing a could have done for myself. Life is way too short to have to work for a living. | ||
| Xl1200r |
The plan would be to stay with my current job and work on my PPL on the side, then move onto CFI/CFII (and everything that would entail). At that point, I'd need to make a decision regarding my primary place of employment, mostly dependent on what kind of money I could make. We have the largest flight school in the northeast right in my backyard, and they're always looking for CFIs, but I'm not sure on the pay. I've done some looking online and guys are saying they see anywhere from $25-55k/yr all over the country. The upper end of that isn't bad, but the lower end would not be enough to live on in my area. Kc - can you explain what the "majors" and "bigguns" are? Back in the day I had a desire to fly for a major airline, but not any longer (at least not right now), if that's what you were referring to. As for salaries, captains with loads of experience and big equipment can make $250k, but I've read that those guy's salaries are retiring with them, and paychecks in the $100k neighborhood will likely be the cap going forward. Last I looked, a PPL would run something like $8,000, dependent on how many hours you would need - this likely depends on where you live, and that figure is out of my head and likely a couple years old. Instrument ratings and such would be above and beyond that. Brin - congrats on the big step tomorrow, I can't even imagine what a first solo flight would feel like. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Ha, my first solo was on the first of this month, just pattern work with a few takeoffs and landings. Needless to say, if anyone could hear me talking to myself, would have been hilarious. "Holy shit, someone is actually letting me fly a plane? They're brave." | ||
| Indy_bueller |
I've actually been toying with this very idea myself. | ||
| Nik |
I made a choice to follow a career path that would pay me well enough so I could fly on my own terms. So far its worked out fairly well. I have both my PP SEL and instrument rating (for about $5000 each... ) I've started flying acro while getting those last few hours before starting on my commercial. I may go on to get my CFI. While I never plan on earning a living flying I would like to make it a self supporting hobby. That's how the best CFI I found operated too. I strongly suggest not going to a big "pilot mill" flight school. Find a small school or club and get a non-shiny jet syndrome infected CFI that's not just doing it to get a bunch of hours before going on to that $20k/yr job flying for the regionals... Go part 61 also. Hold on to your day job as long as possible. I know a lot of pilots that are/were furloughed and others that say going pro ruined it for them and made flying like any other job. Once you get all your ratings and time the market may be better so you'll be able to cross over without as much risk.. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Nik - I can see how going pro would ruin it for some. I used to be a mechanic in high school and college, and briefly considered doing it as a profession, but was warned by some vets in the industry that if I liked working on cars, I'd hate doing it for a living. I took their advice, and not that I didn't believe them, but I find myself stuck in a cubicle getting paid to do crap on an excel spreadsheet that anyone with a high-school diploma could pump out. Not challenging. Not fulfilling. Not ideal. As far as choosing where to learn to fly? Not many options, here. There's a one and only, but I haven't heard anything bad about them. I'm sure I can shop around within for a good fit with a particular instructor, though. I really don't feel this desire to fly big planes, so I don't see myself trying to work for some big regional airline or charter company exclusively. Teaching and odd jobs sound most appealing to me, but obviously there's a pay issue to contend with. More research needed. | ||
| Kc10_fe |
Things are so crappy right now that even UPS has laid off pilots. Cargo is usually the safest and most rewarding since you don’t have to deal with the schtty flying public. In 5-8 years many old geezers will be leaving the majors leaving holes in the schedule. The bad part is with so much future saturation it’s hard to get by. 2 words you need to learn are crash pad. Simply put you are broke living hand to mouth starting out with ZERO seniority waiting for stand by calls. You don’t have a home since you’re at the mercy of schedule. There are pilots that have been out of work since 911. Considering that was 10 years ago and the current state of the economy or lack of it, it’s up to you say I want to attempt to make a living flying. I would suggest looking into railroad engineering. Just throwing that out there. After many years in the USAF I put being home with my family every night as my top priority. That’s not an option for up and comers in the majors or regionals. After spending 280+ days a year gone flying in the USAF for 13 years I couldn’t even imagine more than a day or 2 from the kids. I’m in the Reserves now and I work in union elevator construction. I’m sitting at 7000ish flight hours and now I fly when time permits for pleasure and for what’s required to keep the AF off my ass. I took a drastic departure from aviation and I think it was the best choice I ever made. Best of luck guys. | ||
| P47b |
I have two friends that are doing small plane routes. One moved to Alaska to be a bush pilot the other was doing cloud seeding in Western Kansas. Both are making around $70,000 a year last time we talked. That was around 10 years ago and both had low hours. I took the mechanic route. Your on the right path. Even if you get your Private Pilot you'll have fun. Keep your job for now. Getting a good paying flight job is hard to do. If you find one look at everything on the books. I have see some high pay low hour operations screw over new guys to the field. Yes they are making $30.00 an hour. But your put on 10 to 20 hours a week with a commitment for more hours with the years. Most of the time they never get the hours added. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Anyone know if there are scholarships, assistance or grants for the training? | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Tighten your belt as much as possible and use your current higher paying job to make yourself debt free. Find a job doing what you love, and let your new debt free sustainable lifestyle work despite a possibly lower paying new job. If you have enough equity in your home, sell it and move to a lower cost of living area and own your new home outright. A coworker of mine just passed away this weekend. He was a year (or less) short of collecting his pension. Life is way too short to make yourself miserable, but the lure of financial security is very tempting and sweet (and oftentimes fatal). (Message edited by johnnylunchbox on November 15, 2010) | ||
| 86129squids |
+1 on the railroad thing. My GF's son just got on with the railroad, leaving a manager's job at Radio Shack, looking forward to better pay, bennies, etc. +1, life's too short to not be happy... I'm fairly content being a bartender/server, easy/good $$$, always something interesting going on. I'd spent 4 1/2 years as a M/C salesman at Smoky Mountain HD/BUELL before I returned to restaurants- I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed that kind of work. I learned that you're taking a risk when you combine what you LOVE to do with what you HAVE to do- in the case of motorcycles, I'd been spending every weekend busting my ass to sell bikes, watching everyone else ride in and out, having fun- when I did get the odd weekend off, I was constantly wondering what sales I was missing by not being there. Life doesn't suck too bad now- good luck to you XL, study the problem and do your best to make the best change... | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
A question for you to ponder... Which is really more important to you - heading into a flying career of some sort, or getting out of the cubicle farm you're in?  Some great advice above. I've made a few half-@ssed attempts at the total career change to something I love (motorcycles, music), but I always drifted back to air-conditioning/control systems. I have now changed tack - I now do a job I "kind of" like and happen to be reasonably good at (control systems again!), but I work for a company that I really enjoy working for, with really good people to work with, and that makes each work day enjoyable while working on music in my own time is enjoyable too. What works for you may be different, but it sounds like you're looking for a change. So change it - Life is too short to spend days and weeks and months in a cubicle doing something you don't want to do.  If you want to fly - go do it!  Go and get a taste for it and that will possibly make decisions easier. Book a lesson in asap! | ||
| Xl1200r |
I don't have extensive experience or anything, but I have flown, to one degree or another, 2 different Cessna 172s and a Diamond Katana (the Katana being a low-wing, bubble canopy, joystick 2-seater and I enjoyed it more). So I know what flying a small plane is like. I also like flying on big planes (airliners and such), but the thrill is nowhere near the same. And no offense to any of the advice above, but suggesting someone who wants to get into flying to instead try the railroad is liken to suggesting a boat of some sort to someone who wants to ride a motorcycle. Chili - I do want out of the cube farm, flying is just one way to do it but also something I've always had an interest in, not just an "out of my @ss" idea. To be honest, I've tried thinking of so many other ways to go about this and nothing really grabs me. If this doesn't pan out, I'll be looking for another method to get out. Unfortunately, my degree doesn't jive well with my preference to be out of the office and actually doing something with my hands. I've sent emails to a couple schools, waiting on replies on both cost to get trained to certain levels as well as what they pay their trainers, and if that all works in my favor, what kind of money they make in the charter divisions. It's exciting and overwhelming at the same time, and I know that will just be in my nature to get every single possible piece of information before making any kind of decision. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Beavis says: Maybe you just need more/better after hours activities? (420) Seriously,... I have allways loved flying.. I worked at a small airport for flying/training time (but never got my pilot licence) | ||
| Whistler |
xl1200r - In case you don't already read it, here's an interesting flying blog. http://flightlevel390.blogspot.com/ | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
Dude you should totally follow your dream and do it. I am on my way to doing something simular...Not flying but I am getting out of the army which has me doing a desk job to going to school to be a mechanic because I like working on things so much more and it is something I have dreamed of doing for a long time. Some people may think oh I should just be a mechanic in the army but I am tired of the army on so many levels so I am ready to go home and do what makes me happy again. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Hmmm... this may turn out to just be a pipe dream. Enough training to allow me to earn any kind of money flying will run me at least $24,000, and that's at FAA minimums which are not realistic. To be able to train with an instrument rating I'm looking at $33,000, again, at FAA minimums. If I were to go through a local community college I'd be at $40k with a two-year degree, but it'd probably be easier to finance that. And after all that, I'd be able to get a CFI job in this area at $15/hour with no benefits. I wouldn't be able to live on pay like that around here - that's literally half what I make now, plus I get full benefits, retirement and bonuses. Seems incredibly unrealistic at this point. I went to school for the wrong freakin' thing. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
There is a reason why a job is called work and not play. | ||
| Xl1200r |
There is a reason why a job is called work and not play. I agree, just seems odd that a flight insructor who has put in 10's of thousands of dollars and hundred of hours into training gets paid the same a school bus driver (no offense implied to school bus drivers, of course). I was prepared for expensive training and a drastic reduction in pay, but not to that extent. | ||
| Whistler |
Perhaps consider sticking with your original plan of getting your PPL while continuing you current job but approaching it to fly for flyings sake rather than a career. Becoming a pilot has a lot of lifetime benefits. You can go slowly. Solo, get your private, then instrument ticket, mutli rating, commercial, CFI if that's the way you want to go. All that's going to take a while. You will meet like minded interesting people. Learning to fly can be one of the most important decisions you'll make. We never know how things work out. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
I really wanted to become a pilot several years ago too XL, and came to the same realization about the cost and what I'd make after dropping all that cash. I still had to get out of the cubicle, so 7 or so years ago I started down a path that lead me to truck driving. I'll make right at or a tick under 70k this year (more than double what I was doing in the cubicle 8 years ago), no huge debt for school and a consistent work schedule with weekends and holidays off. Not a bad life honestly. Point is, well I guess there isn't one. Oh, I got it! Just because your dream gig isn't feasible, doesn't mean you can't find some compromise that could actually provide a better, more consistent lifestyle. Yeah, that's it. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Whistler - that will likely be my plan at this point. It will take longer and probably be more for pleasure than as a career change. I was just looking forward to getting away from the computer screen. Bads - trucking was always a draw for me as well, but I want to be able to be home every night. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
I'm home everyday, work nights. In the segment of the industry I'm in, if you work during the day you're making deliveries and pick ups at customers all day, like a UPS driver, just fewer stops of course. At night the freight moves between terminals. No customers, no dispatcher dumping more pick ups on you cuz someone else got behind, etc. I drive 277 miles, swap trailers with a driver from one of the east coast terminals, the drive 277 miles back to home terminal the go home and go to sleep. | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Best of luck finding your way out of the cube farm xlr. I was never successful at reaching escape velocity. But, one way to keep it a little interesting is to change jobs every 4-5 years. get them to move you to a different part of the country and check it out. Everything is challenging for the first year or two, then when you can't stand it anymore, it's time to go again. Folks will want to tell you that no one will hire you after you've done that a few times, but the big corporations have burned that whole loyalty thing to the ground. At the first hint of a downturn they let half the staff go, then have to hire them back in a year. | ||
| P47b |
I don't know about the flight time acquired. But this looks like fun and it's a whole lot cheaper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR-CbJ0tlOQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCS2VeeQzo8 | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
That would be an *incredible* rush...  |
