| Author | Message | ||
     Mr_grumpy |
Ouch.  | ||
| Rainman |
Naw, that can't be. You can't be crazy enough to snowmobile on your Blast after only 24 years of life. It takes at least 50 to get that nuts.  (Just in case you really ARE that young, don't try to impress friends by riding your Blast across dew-soaked grass to make a grand entrance by sliding to a stop next to their car. Don't ask how I learned that. Or when.)  | ||
| Pwnzor |
This is completely awesome. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"The problem I still see here is that for the price of the bottom-rung Sportster, some kid can buy a nearly top of the line Japanese sportbike. Unless you're seriously hard up for nostalgia (and I've never seen a young person that was), that's a no-brainer simply in terms of value." Sportsters start at 7k, what 'top of the line japanese sportbike' can you get for 7k new? 600s are 9 grand or so, liters a bit more than that. And yes, for a little more a young person can buy a bike with 3x the power, tons of handling etc etc etc......but not all young people want a sportbike, thats what some folks in this thread seem to not understand, not everyone wants a sportbike, some want a cruiser or bar hopper. "For $25,000 you can buy a nice modern Goldwing. It have the perception of being an old mans bike (same as HD) but with modern motor, ABS, comfortable touring, will not vibrate to death and the big one since it is a Honda RELIABLE." For 25k you can get a reliable HD thats very comfy and also has ABS, wont vibrate you to death etc etc. As for modern motor, I mean, they just released the motor a few year backs.... Oh, and you'll have a few bucks left over after buying the HD | ||
| Doughj04 |
You should also know that according to U.S. R.L. Polk registrations, Harley-Davidson took over as the top-selling brand in the U.S. in sales of new street motorcycles (all cc engines) to young adults 18-34 in 2008. And in 2009, we extended that lead over the next nearest competitor.” Wait, what...? I find that VERY hard to believe. You better believe it, it's a fact. I'm 29, and I enjoy nostalgia. Now you've know a young one that does. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Sportsters start at 7k and have all the appeal of a Honda Rebel, and maybe less b/c the Rebel gets incredible mileage. I'm not bashing HD but w/o diversification into other styles of bikes they have set themselves up for a drastic reduction in size. Cruisers are not going to be the king of the motorcycle world the way they have been for the last 10-15 years. There will always be a market for them but as American tastes change the percentage of total bike sales made up by cruisers will fall. I think HD will ALWAYS be the king of the cruiser world....it just that the cruiser world is going to get smaller. The 64 million dollar (more than that I know) is will the owners of HD be happy with the long term direction management has taken the company. If I wasn't so risk adverse I'd short HD over as long of a period as I could find some to let me. The longer I could short it the more I believe I'd make. | ||
| Froggy |
Suzuki Boulevard cruiser lineup starts at $5k. | ||
| Froggy |
Bingo. Look how fast peoples taste change with cars. Once gas prices went up, people abandoned SUVs and avoided other large vehicles like a plague, much faster than any automaker could react. We are starting to see a boom in new small cars on the market. The motorcycle market is undergoing a similar change, but due to the economy more than anything else. There isn't as much of a market for expensive one trick ponies like custom choppers and cruisers anymore. Brands like Triumph who have a full range of bikes are fairing better than HD. | ||
| Fahren |
Haven't followed this thread, so sorry to butt in without going back thru it all, but it's also painfully clear that there are huge numbers of used HD's available, older as well as late models, so even less reason to start spending on new HD iron, especially if you are a young 'un with less cash to put down. oops - Tpoppa beat me to the point, on the previous page. (Message edited by fahren on November 05, 2010) | ||
| Koz5150 |
There are many people in this world that believe there is Harley and everything else when it comes to certian styles of bikes. I am one of them and I am only 37. HD may downsize (and should in my opinion) but they are not going away or becoming irrelevent. The ONLY reason I bought a Buell (M2)back in 2002 was because it had a Sportster motor on it. Loved the sound of the bike and the image. It's the same reason I want a Wide Glide as my next bike. Nothing else on the market is even an option in my mind. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
SUVs and minivans before that, muscle cars before the minivans,and huge sedans with fins (before the muscle cars) are exactly the examples I was thinking of. HD has had an incredible run, in the past they have shown that they are a tiger thats not able to change its stripes when needed. This time around it doesn't look like they are even going to try, they're gonna dance with the one that brung 'em. Well thinking a little broader I guess they have diversified somewhat. They now sell t-shirts, baby cloths, cigarette lighters, boots, and anything else they can slap a logo on. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I bet in India they come back out with the 165 Hummer ..... I would buy one of those | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Koz, I hear what your saying. There's a large appeal to the whole image created by all things HD. Many, many HD friends echo your same sentiments that they want to see HD downsize somewhat. They just leave it at HD is too big, but I firmly believe they want to be more unique (which is part of the HD image) and not just one of 100,000 bikes that all basically look and sound the same. Just yesterday on the way home from work I almost got squashed on my Uly by a SUV with a HUGE Tinkerbell HD sticker in the back window. After I got over being pissed I started laughing in my helmet at the irony of the whole thing...... Buell getting squished by a Tinkerbell HD. | ||
| Needs_o2 |
I wonder what the shareholders think of the idea of down sizing and a pure lack of diversity, regardless of the quality of the existing products. Definitely not something I would invest in! | ||
| Xl1200r |
Suzuki Boulevard cruiser lineup starts at $5k. Yeah, for a 650 single. Not exactly on par with an 883. The S50, which has an 805cc v-twin costs $7k... same as an 883, and making similar power. What would you get with your money? The big thing is people try to compare a 750cc metric cruiser to a softail and say the HD is so much more money. It's a lot more bike, too. The metric cruisers all feel like cheap plastic and pot metal to me - you never get that sensation with an HD. They're not for me, but I've always had a soft spot for the Road King DD was talking about... maybe someday, maybe not. | ||
| Crackhead |
"For $25,000 you can buy a nice modern Goldwing. It have the perception of being an old mans bike (same as HD) but with modern motor, ABS, comfortable touring, will not vibrate to death and the big one since it is a Honda RELIABLE." For 25k you can get a reliable HD thats very comfy and also has ABS, wont vibrate you to death etc etc. As for modern motor, I mean, they just released the motor a few year backs.... Oh, and you'll have a few bucks left over after buying the HD Are you sure... it looks like the same bike that was sold in 1944. I know there wasn't ABS back then and during the biker shows, there is at least one bike that breaks down on the way to the competition. | ||
| Budgolf |
Saying not all young people want sport bikes is like saying not all young people like Lady GaGa. Of course not all of them do. But I guarantee you Ratt and Motley Crue aren't giving her any worries. Facts are facts. You don't change, you don't modernize, you fade away. Harley can't survive off of Sportsters. They gotta do something different. | ||
| Doughj04 |
"HD has had an incredible run, in the past they have shown that they are a tiger thats not able to change its stripes when needed. " I suppose, surviving WWI, the Great Depression, WWII, the Cold War, AMF era, coming back from near bankruptcy in the early 1980's, having a 20 year run of setting record numbers (any business would jump at the chance to have that as part of their 107 year history) and the current economy doesn't count as diversifying enough to survive as a buisness, but hey, What have you done for me lately? Can you blame them for creating a "lifestyle?" You are right, sayitaintso, they have their logo on a lot of things. And once again, there are plenty of companies that just dream of having the number of clothing & accessory options that Harley-Davidson has. | ||
| Froggy |
I didn't bother looking up the specs before, but we were comparing the lowest cost bikes available. That said, given the limited info on both Suzuki and HD's website, I would say the S40 compares to a base 883.
I recently checked out the new Super Low after all the commotion on here about it, and my showroom impression was "How the hell can they put an HD badge on this?" It looked and felt cheap, not to mention being stupidly heavy for what it is. The Kawasaki Eliminator that I took my MSF course on felt nicer. But thats just my take on it. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I like the rims off of that Super Low.... I could use them for a flat track project that I am slowly amassing parts too. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Doughj04, you misunderstand what I'm saying, I'm not trying to bash them even though it may come off like that. Harley is a cruiser company when it comes to bikes (I dont think you'll disagree with that). Thats why I said they can't change their stripes, they have not succeeded at any type of bike other than cruisers, not a bash just an observation. And like I said before, the cruiser segment of the bike market is in decline in comparison to other types/styles of bikes.....regarless of the age of the rider. Every time HDs tried to move into other areas they've failed and maybe thats why the current mgt is taking the approach that they are. As for my previous comment about their "logo division" (for lack of a better name), I was trying to give them credit for it as their one area of diversification that has succeeded, not beat them up for it. That logo is solid 24k gold. | ||
| Jaimec |
The reason Harley has failed when they try to move into other segments is that they do so without having any kind of understanding of the market they're trying to penetrate. Until they sweep out the dead wood and get some people who can think beyond the chrome accessory department, they're doomed. They had a golden opportunity with Buell but their CONSTANT second-guessing of Erik's ideas and insistence on selling them alongside their overpriced museum replicas doomed the brand from the start. You'd've thought they'd have LEARNED something from the XLCR debacle, but they hadn't. | ||
| Rainman |
Take the Super Low and raise it so that it has a 30-inch seat height and put an XB-9 engine in it and I'd buy it for $7,500 But I'm old. And cheap. | ||
| Danger_dave |
In the local market here a Super low is virtually same price as its Suzuki Boulevard or Yamaha equivalent and about 25% cheaper than a GSXR600. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I wonder what the shareholders think Who Cares??? Do you think I or most HD riders give two rips about a shareholder's portfolio? For some reason I don't think that is the reason people buy Harleys. Anyone who buys stock in HD should realize that... | ||
| Swordsman |
Sportsters start at 7k, what 'top of the line japanese sportbike' can you get for 7k new? 600s are 9 grand or so, liters a bit more than that. We must be shopping on different Internets. $7999 is $8k, not $7k. Only the race-replica 600's are $9k. The others I looked at were closer to $7k. General rule of thumb for sportbikes seems to be $1k per 100cc, give or take $1000, based on the several I just perused. When I said "nearly top of the line" (nearly being the operative word), I was referring to the 600-1000cc range. Maybe "middle of the road" would have been a better phrase.  Granted, the full-on race-replica models have some impressive price tags attached. ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on November 05, 2010) | ||
| Azxb9r |
A couple of decades ago I saw a tee-shirt that said "Harley Davidson...if I have to explain, you won't understand" HD has been living off that type of thinking for a long time now. People that are looking for bargains dont buy Harleys, it is people that want a Harley because it is a Harley that buy them. | ||
| Greg_e |
I would still kind of like an 883 with a cafe kit on it. Unfortunately the donor prices all seem to be way to high which means probably something closer to a Ryca in my future. | ||
| Needs_o2 |
Koz, I'm sure the only reason people buy H-D stock is simply and only because of how they perform, the company not the bikes! And without growth and a future plan, who would want to invest. As far as who cares what the shareholders think, I'd bet my left nut that H-D does! By the way, it's not about whether you like the bikes, it's about what the entire market wants. And as for me, I personal just don't want to ride crusiers, regardless of brand.  | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
i posted: For 25k you can get a reliable HD thats very comfy and also has ABS, wont vibrate you to death etc etc. As for modern motor, I mean, they just released the motor a few year backs.... Oh, and you'll have a few bucks left over after buying the HD it was replied with: Are you sure... it looks like the same bike that was sold in 1944. I know there wasn't ABS back then and during the biker shows, there is at least one bike that breaks down on the way to the competition. my reply to that: seriously? so cause they look the same then they MUST be the same bike. Facts are facts - they have ABS, they have EFI, etc etc etc and as for the bikes breaking down on biker build off shows....uhhh those arent production bikes, they are modified motorcycles, you cant possibly start to compare the two swordsman - "We must be shopping on different Internets. " we must be... according to the honda website a 2010 cbr600RR msrp.........(wait for it...)...... ...... ......... $11,199USD here is the link http://powersports.honda.com/2010/cbr600rr.aspx and then the liter bike is just over 13k Yamaha R6 is 10,600 Suz GSXR600 is 11,600 etc etc so now tell me how an $8k bike is the same price as one that is 3k+ more? now I have nothing against someone having their own opinions even if its not what I believe, but it bothers me when those opinions are not based on facts. say what you will, but dont try to say 'for the same amount as a base sportster you can get a top of the line jap sportbike' or whatever the line was |
