| Author | Message | ||
     Jens |
I love Wes for his clear view! http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/10/lies-dam ned-lies-and-american-cruiser-sales-statistics/#mo re-10947 | ||
| Fuzzz |
Smoke and mirror press releases will only work for so long.... HD bashing aside, IMO, that Victory looks like Buck Rogers on LSD....definitely not my cup of tea! | ||
| Needs_o2 |
It's always done for the sake of the shareholders, yeah right! Are all shareholders so blind as to not see the shell games that corporations play. Some corporate spin masters could make some believe that haggis is far tastier than filet mignon could ever be. They all seem to have one goal in mind, and that is to make the short term numbers look good so they reap the rewards before they leave the company in a big heaping pile!  | ||
| Whatever |
chrome penis substitutes...  | ||
| Glitch |
Chromeosexual innuendo? | ||
| Doughj04 |
"The Company's third-quarter earnings from continuing operations were driven by continued performance improvement at the Company's financial services unit, Harley-Davidson Financial Services (HDFS), as the Company recorded operating income from financial services of $50.9 million, compared to a loss of $31.5 million in last year's third quarter. Operating income from the motorcycles and related products segment was $101.5 million, compared to $130.7 million in the year-ago period." "Third-quarter retail sales of new Harley-Davidson® motorcycles decreased 7.7 percent worldwide, 9.4 percent in the U.S. and 3.6 percent in international markets compared to the year-ago period." That is directly from Harley's press release about their 3Q performance.. That doesn't sound like Harley is trying to hide anything about their 3Q perfomance. I would get a new source Jens. | ||
| Swordsman |
I'd rock a Vision. And I'd make everyone refer to me as "Judge Dredd"! I like 'em better with the rear case though. If you're gonna look like a spaceship, might as well go all out. BTW, I just noticed how much ground clearance these things have!   ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on October 22, 2010) (Message edited by Swordsman on October 22, 2010) | ||
| Xl1200r |
Ummm...They said they increased profit, which they did, so where exactly is the lie? You can increase profit two ways: 1 - Increase revenue 2 - Decrease costs Don't really matter which way you do it, either one put more money in your pocket. | ||
| Ensigncrusher |
Increased profit compared to what? Their worst year ever? The point of this very short article is that Harley has to continue to fudge its numbers (and gets a lot of positive coverage elsewhere as a result) while another American cruiser company is actually increasing its sales, hooray for Polaris etc. HDFS suffered so horribly due to its exposure to bad debt generated by its repugnant sub prime lending practices that it'd be virtually impossible not to demonstrate an improved number over last year. (Message edited by ensigncrusher on October 22, 2010) | ||
| Xl1200r |
Show me where they fudged any numbers. It doesn't say they increased sales. It plainly says that they decreased. | ||
| Court |
While true . . they also suffered the ill effects of gross stupidity. Try borrowing $600,000,000 at 15% and loaning it out at 4.59% and see how you fare? Harley-Davidson has lost most (actually "most" may be inaccurate, it may just be a "significant amount") of it's committed, seasoned and experienced executive talent. In the same time frame that have seriously, perhaps beyond recovery, alienated both their hourly and mid-level executive employees. The company, now with folks at the helm who have no motorcycle experience, has made some very poor decisions. The future will be interesting. | ||
| Ensigncrusher |
"Show me where they fudged any numbers." The numbers are accurate, the emphasis and analysis are misleading. That's how you lie with statistics, just ask Benjamin Disraeli. | ||
| Xl1200r |
You're grasping at straws. If you owned a company in tough economic times and sales were slipping for whatever reason, would you headline your press release with, "Our Sales Blow" or would you rather put emphasis on the fact that you fixed a problem area and made a larger profit? If I was a shareholder of a company that sold widgets, I'd much prefer they sold one widget a year and turned a $1 million profit rather than they sell 1 million widgets a year and turn a $1 profit. Cash is king. Profit is all that matters. Units sold are just a small piece of the money pie. | ||
| Jens |
Right, but in that business marketshares are everything. Optimzing the profit with extraeffects is one thing, loosing market another. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Cash is king. Profit is all that matters. Units sold are just a small piece of the money pie The American Dream... | ||
| Xl1200r |
but in that business marketshares are everything Why? Marketshare is good, no doubt, but if you were offered to purchase either one of the widget companies I described above, which would you choose? | ||
| Doughj04 |
Jens: Harley-Davidson sales are down, that is a fact. Another fact is: even thought their unit sales are down, they have gained market share. | ||
| Whatever |
I don't care what their sales do... they are still chrome butt jewelry... some HD guy on the way home said "That is a small bike to be doing that kind of distance on..." He didn't even notice the 984 cc just that his fat old hairy arse wouldn't stand the nut busting ride that Piglet would have given him... like the stealth fighter she is, she done real good... I am already planning my next trip!  | ||
| Ensigncrusher |
"You're grasping at straws." I'm not the company reporting income, not profit. So their figures don't include interest, tax etc etc. The point of this article isn't that HD is doing terribly, after all that's old news, it's that Polaris is doing very well and that they deserve to be applauded for that. | ||
| Xl1200r |
It's net income. You're trying to twist it into something it's not. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Interesting that the BRP deal to buy Buell was stopped cold when the BRP folks were on the plane ready to start the due diligence effort. (Jedi hand wave) These are not the cooked books you are looking for (Jedi hand wave) | ||
| Needs_o2 |
Xl1200r, You can't continue to profit by merely cutting cost, you'll run out of things to cut. Maybe they'll demand that all employees donate a kidney, for sale on the black market, or lose their job!  | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
Victory vision, say what you will but at least somebody tried to make an American cruiser that didn't still look like one from the 50s. Love it or hate it, give them credit for that. | ||
| Court |
I'd suggest that THIS is a pretty good account of the situation. | ||
| Sifo |
Victory vision, say what you will but at least somebody tried to make an American cruiser that didn't still look like one from the 50s. Love it or hate it, give them credit for that. I pretty much hate it. I do give Victory high marks for taking that risk though. I also recognize that there's the camp that love the look. Victory also gets high marks for not making everything they make fit that same mold. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The Vision isn't bad...but if people out there hate the pods on the 1125, look at where they put the FUEL on the Vision! Odd choice for an airbag, at least in my book...  | ||
| Danger_dave |
Ahhh - so that's how they compensate for the mill being so far aft in the chassis. | ||
| Jaimec |
Court, the author of that article didn't seem to realize that Polaris DOES compete head-to-head in the cruiser arena with Harley Davidson. They only mentioned ATVs and Wave Runners... | ||
| Elvis |
The fact that sales are down isn't the disturbing part. Sure, the economy is bad and we'd expect them to be down. . . . but the decline started before the economy went bad. HD's high water mark was 2006. And the real problem is they have no interest in motorcycles. Read any of their statements and there's never anything about motorcycles. It's all about branding and image and market research and cost-cutting. Never anything about making better bikes. At some point Harley riders are going to realize they're just being played. It seems some of the top managers honestly believe sales have nothing to do with motorcycles. It's all about the marketing. They have no interest in building a better bike. They're more interested in finding better ways to sell the same old bikes. It's really sort of disturbing . . . and insulting . . . when you think about it. (Message edited by elvis on October 22, 2010) | ||
| Gunut75 |
A lot of Polaris' latest offerings have me intrigued. I'd rock a Vic anyday!  |
